Pure Sine Inverter Charger

[Freebird1958]

Myself and DW are going to purchase a Winnebago Tour 42QD, when I was reading the owners manual. The Tour comes factory installed Magna Sine 2800 watt this is what the manual stated.
(NOTE: The inverter is not intended for steady
use while “dry camping”. Batteries will
deplete quickly with use of the inverter.
The inverter is intended for limited, short
term power usage when
not connected to shoreline or generator power.
The inverter can also be used while
driving the motorhome because the
engine alternator will charge the
batteries while driving.)
Could someone explain what we need to exchange the factory unit installed so we can utilize our coach to dry camp when we decide.

[Scarab0088]

Might be there's no need to change the inverter...it just takes 12volts DC and "inverts" it into 110VAC as/when you need it.

To make the RV more boondockable (I made-up a word) you need to add batteries and solar.

Batteries are kinda' like a tank holding "juice". More storage in the "tanks", the longer between charges.
Solar will also lengthen the period between needing a charge.

Charging is of course, plugging-in or running the generator.

Best luck

[Freebird1958]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

Might be there's no need to change the inverter...it just takes 12volts DC and "inverts" it into 110VAC as/when you need it.

To make the RV more boondockable (I made-up a word) you need to add batteries and solar.

Batteries are kinda' like a tank holding "juice". More storage in the "tanks", the longer between charges.
Solar will also lengthen the period between needing a charge.

Charging is of course, plugging-in or running the generator.

Best luck

Thanks Scarab0088, the Tour 2016 model we have in mind are factory installed 100watt solar panel mainly for trickle charge for storage. The manual also mentions that the unit is capable up to 500watt solar panels? This is why it is confusing.

[Scarab0088]

Even 500watts is not "a lot" of solar for serious boondockers.

And, if the RV has a residential fridge, it is already using more juice than RV's with a 2way fridge.

But, the first project would be adding batteries and/or upgrading battery technology (lithium types) to increase the time between needing a charge.

Best luck

[Isaac-1]

As others have said, the problem is not the inverter, instead it is a matter of battery capacity a 2800 watt inverter running at full capacity would drain a typical RV battery bank in just an hour or so. So you may ask what is it good for, well a typical residential style refrigerator draws about 800 watts when running, and runs about half the time in hot conditions (these are ballpark numbers, the cooler the weather the less it runs). So what this inverter might let you do is to not run your generator at night while you are sleeping, yet still power the refrigerator overnight to keep your frozen stuff frozen, let you watch TV in the evening and maybe even let you pop some popcorn in the mircrowave, or cook instant oatmeal in the morning without firing up the generator. The thing is you would still have to recharge the batteries and provide power for the refrigerator, etc. during the day, and the only practical way to do that is with your generator as even if you cover the entire roof of your motorhome in solar panels you are not likely to get enough power to both run the residential refrigerator and your other household loads during the day as well as recharge the batteries for the following night. Sure you might be able to barely do it with full sun all day, but the reality is most places have these things called clouds....

[twinboat]

Just to give an idea, we have a 2000 watt, sine wave inverter, 675 watts of solar and 8, 6 volt deep cycle GC2 batteries.

This is on a 35 ft boat so the weight isn't a big issue. The batteries probably weight over 500 lbs and the 3 solar panels are pretty large.

We have a 7 cf, apartment size residental refrigerator and small microwave. There is Sat. TV, cell phone chargers and 2 computers along with the water pump and some lights.

We use tosters and mixers because of the short run time and the DW uses a sewing machine or crock pot on sunny days.

We can go day after day, being conservative with power, without running the generator, as long as the sun shines, except in the shorter days of December, January and Febuary. That is in the FL Keys, so anything North of that, because of the suns angle, will give us less power.

As the summer approaches, the longer days give us more charging and the generator is needed less.

We don't have any shade problems, being out on the water, but after a cloudy day, we will fall behind on battery capacity. On a second day of clouds, we will need to run the generator to catch up.

If we are crusing, the alternator charges the batteries while underway.

Using Lithum batteries, that are becoming more mainstream, but expensive, will cut down on weight and with enough solar, it will work.

You need to pick sites without shade and have gas hot water and cooking.
If you want air conditioning, for the most part, you will need to run a generator.

This is why we put the boat away in the spring and head to the MH and it's large generator or shore power to run the AC.

[wa8yxm]

You need exchange nothing. The info you have is correct but your reading needs to ... Well you need to understand how to read it.
It states the inverter is for short term use because:
"Batteries will deplete quickly with use of the inverter. "

And they are not kidding... An easy way to estimate the 12 volt load in amps is to divide watts of the device you are using by 10.
Fridge (RV type) 350 watts 3.5 amps if you power it off the inverter
Microwave 1100 watts, 110 amps
TV not so bad

A pair of GC-2 Golf Car DEEP CYCLE batteries hold about 220 AH at the 20 hour rate, you can safely use 110 of these. (half) MARINE/Deep cycle batteries you should not use that much, say only 40% to be safe
Group 24 75 AH
Group 27/29 just under/over 100 (use 100 for estimates)
Group 31 130

As you can see it won't take long to drain the batteries if you are drawing say 300 watts for your entertainment system (30 amps at 12 volts)

So the solution is not to "Exchange" anything it is to add batteries.. more batteries means more run time (You also crank up the converter part to recharge faster) I run about 550 Amp hours of battery and can go most nights without firing the Generator till after sun up.

Still, without solar I need to generate daily.

[Duoglide1]

With 4 GC2 batteries we can run our inverter for 8-10 hours if we are not using high draw items. For a few ac fluorescent lights, phone chargers and 3-4 hours of tv and direct satellite. We run the generator a couple hours in the am and usually a couple in the evening. If we aren't using ac we do shut the inverter off and just have D.C. Items. We haven't plugged in at a park for the last month. Ours is a 2000W PSW but it's all the same.


2012 NuWay HitchHiker 363RSBDA, 2016 Ford F-350 Dually 6.7

[computerguy]

Yep, as others have said this is 2 separate issues.
The inverter can create AC power from DC power. Think AC as the wall outlet in your S&B house. DC power is from a battery.
2800 watt inverter can continuously supply about 23 amps.
My Samsung residential refrigerator uses 1.1 amps. My microwave uses 9.1 amps, TVs, phone chargers pull real small amps. So I could run all this stuff at one time without tripping the inverter breaker. All the way up to 23 amps. This is AC amps though.
Remember the inverter uses DC to create AC power. For the sake of argument let's say DC is rated at 12 volts, AC at 120 volts. There are lots of inefficiencies in the process but lets keep it simple. DC needs 10 times the amps as AC (120/12).
So for the given example above that 1.1 amp AC refer I have will use 11 amps DC to run. The micro will use 91 amps DC to run at full power.
Then there is the piece of how long can I run all this stuff.
Your battery bank determines this. Remember we are using DC to create AC. This is where the amp hour (AH) rating comes into play. As wa8yxm says a typical GC2 battery will hold 220 AH (at 6 volts but that's why you need 2 to get to 12v and it is still 220 AH rated) but you should never run a lead acid type battery below 50% of it's rated AH. That leaves you 110 AH to use. OK, still with me?
If I run that micro for 30 minutes I will have used up 45.5 AH of that 110 usable AH. If I run that refer for an hour I will use up an additional 11 amps (ok, thing with refers they don't run 100% of the time but just trying to give a very simple example here).
But you can see how quick it adds up and uses up the available AH of a given battery bank size.
You also have to consider all the loads both DC and AC in your RV. There is also a pesky parasitic draw on the battery bank. These are things like CO and smoke detectors, radio memory draws, etc). That draw is there 24 hours a day as long as your batteries are connected. It all adds up and all uses the same battery bank.
Hope that helps a little. You can see that an energy audit is a good step to see how long your battery bank will last given a typical usage profile. It is also very personal. What I use is most likely completely different than what you will use.

[vsheetz]

I am surprised your documentation says such regarding inverter usage and dry camping. Depending on the size of your battery bank it may be somewhat accurate, if the battery bank is small. We have 2800 watt inverter and dry camp quite well with six 6v batteries, RR, and generator. One does need to minimize electric usage as possible. Install LED lighting, charge laptop computers​ and other battery devices when the generator is running and use them on their internal batteries when generator us off, etc. Typically run the generator a couple hours in the morning while preparing breakfast, and again a couple hours when preparing evening dinner. Monitor the battery bank voltage and usage patterns to learn what works best for you.

That said, as we dry camp often for week(s) at a time, we have installed a 1500w solar system to minimize generator usage.

[RolandRock]

The quick answer for the original poster is get more batteries. Start with 400-600 AH capacity. That inverter will run any appliance except your A/C just fine. If you are only doing occasional dry camping, expect to run your generator for a few hours a day to keep the batteries charged and don't bother with solar. However, 750-1200 watts of solar would do nicely to not have to use the generator on a daily basis during extended dry camping. All the above info is a pretty good base for planning your system.


Happy Travels ...

[D Lindy]

Basically what you read is a "Cover Their Ass Disclaimer". That Magnum 2800 will run great in a boondocking environment as long as your battery bank lasts. The statement is for those that think they can run their A/C, heat pumps, or anything else like they were on shore power. That 42QD comes with the same house battery set-up I have, 6 12 volt AGM batteries. We've dry camped a number of times, and run the generator for about 1.5 hrs. in the morning while brewing coffee etc, and then again for another 1-2 hrs. at night before bed.

[Stan&Jacquie]

Originally Posted by D Lindy

Basically what you read is a "Cover Their Ass Disclaimer". That Magnum 2800 will run great in a boondocking environment as long as your battery bank lasts. The statement is for those that think they can run their A/C, heat pumps, or anything else like they were on shore power. That 42QD comes with the same house battery set-up I have, 6 12 volt AGM batteries. We've dry camped a number of times, and run the generator for about 1.5 hrs. in the morning while brewing coffee etc, and then again for another 1-2 hrs. at night before bed.

My wife and I boondock 4 -6 weeks at a time and do very well with this system:
Magnum 2000 Pure Sine Inverter
4 wet cell golf cart batteries - 440 amp hrs
600w solar system
Samsung rf194 frig.

With fair to good sun we usually runs the Genset for about 2 hrs., solar takes over for the day and then we might run the genset before bed for about 1 hour. By morning the battery bank is never below 60% state of charge and the process repeats itself.

It isn't rare that solar alone will bring the batts to a full state of charge. So...once every week or two weeks we will run the genset a good three hours to bring the system back to "Full Charge" status.

[computerguy]

Originally Posted by Stan&Jacquie

My wife and I boondock 4 -6 weeks at a time and do very well with this system:
Magnum 2000 Pure Sine Inverter
4 wet cell golf cart batteries - 440 amp hrs
600w solar system
Samsung rf194 frig.

With fair to good sun we usually runs the Genset for about 2 hrs., solar takes over for the day and then we might run the genset before bed for about 1 hour. By morning the battery bank is never below 60% state of charge and the process repeats itself.

It isn't rare that solar alone will bring the batts to a full state of charge. So...once every week or two weeks we will run the genset a good three hours to bring the system back to "Full Charge" status.

Wow, not sure how that is possible (only down to 60% SOC). I have a Samsung RF18 and it alone uses and avg of 120 AH per day. I have a 3 amp parasitic draw. Add in all the TV, computers, lights, water pump, microwave and I am well over 300AH a day. If you have a 440AH bank that would mean you are only using 176 AH maximum a day. More power to you if you are able to do it on 176AH. I could not and why I went with lithium bank and 960 watts of solar.
Curious what are you using to determine SOC? I am using a ME-BMK.