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Old 05-24-2021, 04:16 AM   #645
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I can't speak from a fighter pilots perspective, since I flew helicopters in the Army, but this is a problem in all the services as the pointy end of the stick. After 6 years in the Army during peacetime, we deployed to the Gulf for the first time in Desert Shield/Storm. I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly the BS stopped when we hit the sand, and we got the job done, often in spite of higher, but I was extremely disheartened at how quickly the BS returned in droves once the job was over.

Very few of the hard lessons learned were ever applied back in the peacetime "real" army.
After multiple trips/tours to the sandbox flying Hueys and Hooks, I was sitting at just shy of 20 years on my latest OIF iteration contemplating where I was going with it all. I called my Branch Manager at DA (who I knew personally) and asked him what I was looking at if I stayed another 5 years. His honest reply was "Scot, if you stay another 5 years, you will spend 3 1/2 back in Iraq and Afghanistan."

I looked out the window, and realized that there wasn't anything out there that I needed to come back and get. That was it. I submitted my papers, making sure they landed on his desk on the ONE day between stop losses for my MOS. Approved. Got out at 21 years and 16 days. 21 of us CW4's in our task force submitted their papers while we were over there.

I also took heed of my Dad's advice, who did 28 years in the Navy as a Naval Aviator, starting off in WW2 in N3N's, and finishing up in EC-121's. He said he often wished he'd gotten out at about the 22 year mark, as it just stopped being fun.

I don't miss the BS.

I don't miss some of the shitholes we deployed to.
I never want to see another pair of boots, and M-16 with helmet on top.
I don't miss the time away from my family, something I will never get back.

I do miss the flying, and
I DO miss many of the PEOPLE it was my honor to service with.
Charlie Mike
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Old 05-24-2021, 10:29 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod View Post
I can't speak from a fighter pilots perspective, since I flew helicopters in the Army, but this is a problem in all the services as the pointy end of the stick. After 6 years in the Army during peacetime, we deployed to the Gulf for the first time in Desert Shield/Storm. I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly the BS stopped when we hit the sand, and we got the job done, often in spite of higher, but I was extremely disheartened at how quickly the BS returned in droves once the job was over.

Very few of the hard lessons learned were ever applied back in the peacetime "real" army.
After multiple trips/tours to the sandbox flying Hueys and Hooks, I was sitting at just shy of 20 years on my latest OIF iteration contemplating where I was going with it all. I called my Branch Manager at DA (who I knew personally) and asked him what I was looking at if I stayed another 5 years. His honest reply was "Scot, if you stay another 5 years, you will spend 3 1/2 back in Iraq and Afghanistan."

I looked out the window, and realized that there wasn't anything out there that I needed to come back and get. That was it. I submitted my papers, making sure they landed on his desk on the ONE day between stop losses for my MOS. Approved. Got out at 21 years and 16 days. 21 of us CW4's in our task force submitted their papers while we were over there.

I also took heed of my Dad's advice, who did 28 years in the Navy as a Naval Aviator, starting off in WW2 in N3N's, and finishing up in EC-121's. He said he often wished he'd gotten out at about the 22 year mark, as it just stopped being fun.

I don't miss the BS.

I don't miss some of the shitholes we deployed to.
I never want to see another pair of boots, and M-16 with helmet on top.
I don't miss the time away from my family, something I will never get back.

I do miss the flying, and
I DO miss many of the PEOPLE it was my honor to service with.
Charlie Mike
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Old 05-24-2021, 10:52 AM   #647
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As a young maintainer in the post Viet Nam days I remember plenty of times when had no parts to fix jets. It was disheartening to remove parts from one plane to fix another so the higher ups could rotate the tail numbers of the hangar queens. They couldn't get us parts for the mission, but there was plenty of paint and floor wax to keep us busy.
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Old 05-25-2021, 12:29 AM   #648
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I was neither a pilot or a maintainer, but I was an air traffic controller which with a little effort gave me a fair amount of insight to various aspects of military aviation. Flying safety and accident reports were of particular interest to me.

I did hear a startling story from a high school classmate who joined the Army in 1970 a couple weeks after I enlisted in the Air Force. He became a helicopter mechanic and of course was in high demand in Vietnam.

Of course he had a lot of war stories to relate, particularly that in order to maintain the helos to the best mission capable rate, they had to have more parts and spare engines on hand than the Army typically allowed. Apparently the supply system was loose enough to allow them to be overstocked. The part that really flabbergasted me was a few days before a scheduled inspection they had to gather up all of the excess parts and engines and either bury them or palletize them and drop them into the South China Sea.
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Old 05-25-2021, 12:42 PM   #649
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Here's a link to an article from the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum with some interesting info about how the OS-2U Kingfisher was operated off cruisers and battleships in WWII.
https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/e...ve-never-heard
I have launched many gliders and been launched many times in a glider by a Chevy 454 engine powering a take-up reel wound with a long steel cable which was a lot fun. The DGF, now DW, and I spent many enjoyable weekends at the Torrey Pines Gliderport when we were members of the Associated Glider Clubs of Southern California. I bet cat shots off a cruiser or battleship and getting hooked back aboard after a water landing would have been a lot more fun.[emoji2]
[emoji40][emoji382]
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Old 05-26-2021, 04:23 AM   #650
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These days, we call that "scrounge." Every good maintainer has their own stash, but never anything as large as an engine.

As a weapons loader, I always had at least one AIM-9 shorting cap, a few aircraft and/or weapons safing pins, and various screws, nuts, and bolts, within easy reach. Last thing I wanted to do was to get on an aircraft and realize I needed small items that would result in waiting for the expediter truck to roll back around.
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Old 05-26-2021, 11:29 AM   #651
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Cecil Field POW MIA Memorial, Inc.

Last week we visited Jacksonville, FL. While there we drove out to see all the improvements at Cecil Airport.

I served at Naval Air Station Cecil Field from 1966 –1970 while attached to Navy Attack Squadron VA-174.

The POW MIA Memorial has just added an A7 aircraft display and it’s an old restored A7 with VA-174 Markings. Here are a few pictures.

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Old 05-26-2021, 01:50 PM   #652
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Nice pics of a good-looking flying machine. One question: who stole the tailhook.? It looks nekkid.
Does the A-7 not have a way to chain up the hook for safety like the F-4? Oops, sorry. I guess that's 2 questions.
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Old 05-26-2021, 01:56 PM   #653
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Nice pics of a good-looking flying machine. One question: who stole the tailhook.? It looks nekkid.
Does the A-7 not have a way to chain up the hook for safety like the F-4? Oops, sorry. I guess that's 2 questions.
[emoji40][emoji382]
The tail hook on the A7 is recessed out of sight.
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Old 05-26-2021, 03:31 PM   #654
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The tail hook on the A7 is recessed out of sight.
Ahhh, sooo...... I guess I only paid close attention to the one that left its tailhook in the spud locker.[emoji33]
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Old 05-27-2021, 03:55 PM   #655
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Last week we visited Jacksonville, FL. While there we drove out to see all the improvements at Cecil Airport......

We stopped by there in Feb. 2019, first time I'd been back in quite awhile. I knew the base had been converted to a civilian facility but I couldn't believe how much it had changed. So many buildings were no longer there. It was kind of sad. I was stationed there in '77-'80 when I flew A-7's and had been back numerous times between '84 and '92 when I was based at Oceana and Dallas doing adversary stuff in the A-4. It was good to see the A-7 at the main entrance then and glad to see that there's another one at the memorial.
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Old 05-28-2021, 04:33 AM   #656
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We stopped by there in Feb. 2019, first time I'd been back in quite awhile. I knew the base had been converted to a civilian facility but I couldn't believe how much it had changed. So many buildings were no longer there. It was kind of sad. I was stationed there in '77-'80 when I flew A-7's and had been back numerous times between '84 and '92 when I was based at Oceana and Dallas doing adversary stuff in the A-4. It was good to see the A-7 at the main entrance then and glad to see that there's another one at the memorial.
In 1977 - 1980 I was with VF-41 on the Nimitz. The airwing A7 squadrons were VA-72 & VA-86.
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Old 05-28-2021, 08:41 AM   #657
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In 1977 - 1980 I was with VF-41 on the Nimitz. The airwing A7 squadrons were VA-72 & VA-86.
I was in VA-86 and knew several of the pilots in 41 very well. "Bear" Gill was my neighbor going through flight school in Kingsville, and I went through LSO school with "Music" Muczynski, who made the IO cruise. When I left 86 to go to VT-22 in Kingsville as an instructor, "Shoe" Lowe was the XO when I checked in. I went on a great trout fishing trip to northern Montana with him and 2 other guys over Labor Day weekend in '82. If I remember from previous posts, you were on CAG staff for the IO cruise. I was good friends with Jerry Singleton then. I recently heard that he has passed away...not sure of the cause, but we are getting to that stage of life.
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Old 05-28-2021, 10:23 AM   #658
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I was in VA-86 and knew several of the pilots in 41 very well. "Bear" Gill was my neighbor going through flight school in Kingsville, and I went through LSO school with "Music" Muczynski, who made the IO cruise. When I left 86 to go to VT-22 in Kingsville as an instructor, "Shoe" Lowe was the XO when I checked in. I went on a great trout fishing trip to northern Montana with him and 2 other guys over Labor Day weekend in '82. If I remember from previous posts, you were on CAG staff for the IO cruise. I was good friends with Jerry Singleton then. I recently heard that he has passed away...not sure of the cause, but we are getting to that stage of life.
When I worked the GAG desk in flight deck control the Handler was LCDR Reardon. Our personalities were very much alike and we meshed well. I was very saddened when he crashed and got killed in the St johns river.

A CAG chief can make a lot of enemies working the flight deck desk. One of mine was the MO of the S3 squadron. He would get on the box and demand things and I would have to remind him the box was a chief to chief communications box. He complained to LCDR Roberts, our maintenance officer. LCDR Roberts made him come up to flight deck control and observe a complete cycle. He never bothered his CPOs again.

We had a number of officers that had very distinguished careers. LT Vanlet went on to retire as a Vice Admiral.

CDR Cebrowski who took command of VF-41 when Skipper Formo got killed also went on to retire as a Vice Admiral.

CAG and my CO told me I would be aboard until we returned to Norfolk. We were all shocked when I got pri2 orders to CINCLANTFLT staff with a report no later than date for training. I worked the manpower desk for all Atlantic fleet shore AIMDs. It was a lot of fun traveling for a 4 star. We got the red carpet treatment wherever we went. At Guantanamo they actually rolled out a red carpet and took us on a helicopter tour of the whole base. We were there to determine if the air facility should have a CO in place of a OINC. Our teams traveled in threes, a CDR/LCDR a MCPO/SCPO and a GS11/GS9.
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