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-   -   Thor quality control issues - response from the Director (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f281/thor-quality-control-issues-response-from-the-director-205429.html)

alindsay 05-27-2014 03:17 PM

Thor quality control issues - response from the Director
 
I received a call today from the Director of Customer Service at Thor. This is in response to my letter outlining my issue and frustration as outlined on this thread - https://www.irv2.com/forums/f281/im-n...on-202903.html

It may fall on deaf ears but he actually asked me to outline all of the qc problems I've seen since taking delivery of my coach and email them to him so he can address these with the production staff.

Since my initial coolant problem, I've found some little quirks that really should have been caught and better yet, should never have happened to my coach.

I am asking each of you to list some areas of concern and I'll include them in my response back to him. I'm not wanting this to be a "Bash Thor" thread but a "what can Thor do to improve delivered coaches" thread.

I'll start:

1) Better document the Sat Prep and if you put a cap with a sign that says Coax cables are below, then put coax cables below.

2) Screw in the valances with a minimal number of screws. Mine had several screws into air - the builder should know where the proper place to screw into is

3) If screws heads are torqued off, fix it and don't deliver the coach that way

4) Better documentation - this goes for most all of the systems in the coach. This documentation should be coach specific and available online for all.

5) Provide owners better assistance with wiring diagrams / schematics of the items on our coaches.

6) Treat the build of the coach like your loved ones will own it. Instead of a half-a$$ed approach to building the unit, take care and have pride in what you build.

7) Understand that current Palazzo owners are the best sales people for future owners. We see and visit with a lot of people as we use our coaches...make us happy and you will sell more units.

8) If a drawer or cabinet is supposed to stay closed while driving, design a way it will stay closed.

Hopefully everyone can contribute their thoughts and future coaches will have improved quality.

Thanks,

Allan

Redridge 05-27-2014 06:30 PM

dude... you missed the slide issues... thats the biggest for me.

But yeah...
*screws, cut out wooden pieces are everywhere on the floor.
*till this day Im still cleaning out saw dust.
*would love to have schematics.
*installed speaker bars crooked.
*falling TV in hallway while driving.
*floor deflects when slide is deployed and cant open basement doors without use of force.
*terrible QC!!!
*fluid leaks (levelers, engine coolant)
*leaky firewall from rain.
*black dust in bedroom (need to seal the engine bay better)
*Wheel well fender strip peeling from frame.
*front rear caps need sealing.

kokosfriend 05-28-2014 09:28 AM

I would like the coach information book to give more specific info about the Palazzo rather than information that tells us nothing when it come to locations and functions of some of the "mysteries" I have had to solve by looking everywhere or calling Thor.

MKM 05-28-2014 09:35 PM

Along with the above listed items, here are a few more several, including myself, have come across:
- Washer not connected to water supply.
- Sub woofer not wired correctly.
- as mentioned, the sawdust, loose screws and torqued off screw heads are out of control.

By far the biggest for me is the slide. I have had zero issues with mine so far, but with the many issues owners have suffered along with the fact that Thor has made several design changes to solve the issue, have me constantly worried. I do not normally purchase extended warranties but have been thinking I might need to when my one year comes up in October.

alindsay 05-29-2014 07:07 AM

These are all good items - I'll add them to my email. I hear ya about the slides..I also have not had a problem yet but I do hold my breath every time I put them in/out.

Sub woofer? I have a sound bar but don't see a sub woofer..where would it be?

Thanks,

Allan

PS I'm going to get the email out this monday 6/2..so please keep adding items that need to be looked at closer.

I would love to spend ONE day as their Quality Control person..just walking around the factory as the builds happen and point out things...not in a mean way but from a "Look at this" perspective. Not gonna happen but fun to think about.

MKM 05-29-2014 09:04 AM

On our 33.2, it is located under the forward facing dining table bench. Under the cushion is a panel that must be removed to access it. Some don't have a sub depending on which brand monitor you have. I don't remember which though.

Bud Parker 05-29-2014 09:41 PM

I love my Palazzo so far, 2013, we have had quality control issues, such as no latching doors, missed staples on trim, two bay door latches would not shut and other small issues. So far I just fix stuff as I discover it. Knock on wood, no major issues. I do wonder who the gunius engineer was that decided to put the DEF tank on the right side of the rig. Maybe there is a better way to do it but I have to fill my DEF tank from the next lane over and it is aggravating when I have to wait for a semi to leave or get throuh.

User1011 05-30-2014 04:12 AM

. I do wonder who the gunius engineer was that decided to put the DEF tank on the right side of the rig.


Regarding the location of the DEF tank ...

Last month we were in Elkhart, Indiana at the Thor Service Center. We took the diesel plant tour in Wakarusa and during the tour the subject came up. There is usually a 'good' reason for things. This is one!

Long story short and to keep it brief - Flying J/ Pilot initially decided on the delivery mode of providing DEF to their customers and told the manufacturers and chassis manufacturers that it would be dispensed with containers at their stations. This information is what Thor and other manufacturers was provided. The exhaust is located on the right side of the coach. The DEF fluid additive is designed to go into the exhaust and therefore was the shortest path.

Some time later, Flying J/Pilot decided to change the delivery mode at their stations and dispense DEF through pumps. Not only did Thor have it on the right side (PS) but so did other coach manufacturers; as most rigs are being built on the Freightliner chassis. The DEF tank location was then modified to the left side (DS) to accommodate the changes that Flying J/Pilot made. :)

P.S. Mercedes Benz and other vehicle manufacturers still have the DEF fill on the passenger side.......

StevieD 05-30-2014 06:18 AM

I like the def on the passenger side. I always fill out of containers ( $5.26 for 2 gal). I rarely ever go to a truck stop for fuel. I just won't pay 20 to 25 cents per gal more for fuel at the truck stop . That was the sole reason for the 33.2. I can go pretty much anywhere.


We love our hoach

Redridge 05-30-2014 06:20 AM

where do you buy DEF at $5.26... thats a great deal.

StevieD 05-30-2014 06:22 AM

Buccees, 3.18 per gal and 5.26 go 2 gal. All buckeyes locations .

StevieD 05-30-2014 06:23 AM

I seemed to be having issues with auto spell check today

Gingerela 05-30-2014 06:36 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Two weeks ago, I noticed the vertical trim piece in the front of my coach had detached from the body. This trim piece hides the connection where the front cap attaches to the body of the coach. Upon closer inspection, I noticed a number of screw heads had broken off. Luckily, I was still in Elkhart when I noticed it and Thor was able to fit me in and get it repaired before I left. Turns out all nine of the screw heads had broken off on the driver's side and all but four on the passenger side. That should not be happening to a coach under a year old with only 6000 miles on it. Others on this forum have complained about the screw heads popping off and have posted photos.

Is it the quality of the screws, poor workmanship, or a design flaw?

Hoses left unconnected or loosely connected, is a maufacturing problem that has reeked havoc on our coach as well as our vacations.

P.S. Tried to no avail to get these photos to post right side up, but for whatever reason, I was unsuccessful.

Moonrover 05-30-2014 07:13 AM

Is it possible that those screws were over torqued when installed? Broken off but ignored in haste?

Gingerela 05-30-2014 07:45 AM

Not sure, but that sure is a whole lot of headless screws.

bdickson 05-30-2014 07:55 AM

I had the exact same problem on my 2013 Thor Challenger. The front cap to body seam split for about 18 inches on each side and I could see sheared off screws in the gap. Camping World repaired it (under warranty) but it has started separating again on one side. I have a June 30 appointment at Elkhart and this is one of the issues on my list.

HVAC Bill 05-30-2014 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingerela (Post 2073803)
Two weeks ago, I noticed the vertical trim piece in the front of my coach had detached from the body. This trim piece hides the connection where the front cap attaches to the body of the coach. Upon closer inspection, I noticed a number of screw heads had broken off. Luckily, I was still in Elkhart when I noticed it and Thor was able to fit me in and get it repaired before I left. Turns out all nine of the screw heads had broken off on the driver's side and all but four on the passenger side. That should not be happening to a coach under a year old with only 6000 miles on it. Others on this forum have complained about the screw heads popping off and have posted photos. Is it the quality of the screws, poor workmanship, or a design flaw? Hoses left unconnected or loosely connected, is a maufacturing problem that has reeked havoc on our coach as well as our vacations. P.S. Tried to no avail to get these photos to post right side up, but for whatever reason, I was unsuccessful.


I had same problem with mine a few month back, they had to remount using rivets. Upon picking it up I inspected and found large spider cracks at the top, made another appointment for body shop to repair. Although this was still under warranty for me, the screw quality is a real issue, from the ladder to the nose they have had to replace them. Good luck with Thor, I they only have a one year warranty for a reason. :/

Gingerela 05-30-2014 12:01 PM

I'd say this is a HUGE problem.

Redridge 05-30-2014 06:09 PM

they def use cheap screws... quantity rather than quality is the name of the game here. Thats why there are screws thrown every where on the coach for us to collect. Why buy quality screws when you can use 3-4 extra in place of it...

Bud Parker 05-30-2014 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2LT (Post 2073711)
. I do wonder who the gunius engineer was that decided to put the DEF tank on the right side of the rig.


Regarding the location of the DEF tank ...

Last month we were in Elkhart, Indiana at the Thor Service Center. We took the diesel plant tour in Wakarusa and during the tour the subject came up. There is usually a 'good' reason for things. This is one!

Long story short and to keep it brief - Flying J/ Pilot initially decided on the delivery mode of providing DEF to their customers and told the manufacturers and chassis manufacturers that it would be dispensed with containers at their stations. This information is what Thor and other manufacturers was provided. The exhaust is located on the right side of the coach. The DEF fluid additive is designed to go into the exhaust and therefore was the shortest path.

Some time later, Flying J/Pilot decided to change the delivery mode at their stations and dispense DEF through pumps. Not only did Thor have it on the right side (PS) but so did other coach manufacturers; as most rigs are being built on the Freightliner chassis. The DEF tank location was then modified to the left side (DS) to accommodate the changes that Flying J/Pilot made. :)

P.S. Mercedes Benz and other vehicle manufacturers still have the DEF fill on the passenger side.......

Thanks for the info, that is a good reason. Bud Parker

Don Voyage 06-01-2014 06:19 AM

My 2 cents for Thor to fix and ones I fixed.
 
Scheduled July 14th for a Factory Visit for the following:
  1. Heads of various screws securing ladder to coach are sheered off. Additionally, the large screws that secure ladder to horizontal supports pulled through tubing with the very bottom bending in everytime I step on it.
  2. Went to install a Sat antenna and where the sticker was for sat/data cable location was [under plumbing vent cap behind radio antenna] opened per instructions on label. well, no cable can be found in the 1 1/2" hole as directed. Probed around and removed a considerable amount of insulation......no where to be found. Thor agreed to find it and install antenna during visit.
  3. Trim on driver's side came off to to sheered screws. I repaired and want Thor to inspect it. Used a black RTV Adhesive and held trim in place by blocking it with a bar to ground.
  4. Missing sweep rubber floor seal from fridge all the way back to closet and do get drafts. Also slot where water lines are exposed and subject to freezing and total area is open for kitters and bug access.
  5. When the coach is parked with entrance door facing south with awning in, it gets jambed closed from heat expansion. Getting door open requires a lot of effort.
  6. Water tank indicator light when full wasn't working. Found when removing access panel the wire to the sensor came out of wire connector. It was re-crimped into connector and all other wires were tied up and secured as they were just hanging all over the place. PS: Wanted to change water filter and found their was never an element installed. Installed a new taste odor and sediment one.
  7. Drafts were found entering under dash.
  8. Large slide made some real loud noises when operating. Found the Lippert Video on lubrication and bought the CRC required on Amazon and noises stopped. I still hold my breath and keep my fingers crossed that it will go out or come in.
  9. Mark Stanley of Thor inspected coaches at the Myrtle Beach rally.
    My bedroom slide was found to need adjustment and trimming. The outside rubber veritical seal needs to be touching slide evening up and down with a slide curve outward. Mine the seal was straight to slide with no curve and just barely touching slide.
  10. Sub-woofer for TV was under dinette seat by sink side. I removed and re-routed feed line to outside floor area. Secured sub-woofer to seat base with velcro-strips to prevent movement. Note the seat bases were screwed down on both sides and I did not re-install them but installed strips of velco in various spots to hold securely. Now I have new acess and quick storage of items[junk I will probably forget] under seats.
  11. DEF in bulk at truckers fill up islands at Flying J I get for $2.73 a gallon. Easier since fill neck is up in compartment and nozzle fits it well. My fill is on the left that requires me to pull up after diesel fill to accomplish. I do not carry any additional DEF in containers.
Thats about it so far for 7 months of ownership and 6300.0 miles so far. With exception of long term trust of the slides I am pretty pleased with coach. After my Factory visit, I plan on heading up to the U P, Wisconsin, Iowa, S. Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado and back to Gaffney for Camp Freightliner Sept 11-12. So any problems with chassis I will have Gaffney take of them. If anymore Coach problems I will try to have them addressed while attending the Goshen Rally. Keeping my fingers crossed.:thumb:

Indy1951 06-01-2014 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Voyage (Post 2076347)
Scheduled July 14th for a Factory Visit for the following:
  1. Heads of various screws securing ladder to coach are sheered off. Additionally, the large screws that secure ladder to horizontal supports pulled through tubing with the very bottom bending in everytime I step on it.
  2. Went to install a Sat antenna and where the sticker was for sat/data cable location was [under plumbing vent cap behind radio antenna] opened per instructions on label. well, no cable can be found in the 1 1/2" hole as directed. Probed around and removed a considerable amount of insulation......no where to be found. Thor agreed to find it and install antenna during visit.
  3. Trim on driver's side came off to to sheered screws. I repaired and want Thor to inspect it. Used a black RTV Adhesive and held trim in place by blocking it with a bar to ground.
  4. Missing sweep rubber floor seal from fridge all the way back to closet and do get drafts. Also slot where water lines are exposed and subject to freezing and total area is open for kitters and bug access.
  5. When the coach is parked with entrance door facing south with awning in, it gets jambed closed from heat expansion. Getting door open requires a lot of effort.
  6. Water tank indicator light when full wasn't working. Found when removing access panel the wire to the sensor came out of wire connector. It was re-crimped into connector and all other wires were tied up and secured as they were just hanging all over the place. PS: Wanted to change water filter and found their was never an element installed. Installed a new taste odor and sediment one.
  7. Drafts were found entering under dash.
  8. Large slide made some real loud noises when operating. Found the Lippert Video on lubrication and bought the CRC required on Amazon and noises stopped. I still hold my breath and keep my fingers crossed that it will go out or come in.
  9. Mark Stanley of Thor inspected coaches at the Myrtle Beach rally.
    My bedroom slide was found to need adjustment and trimming. The outside rubber veritical seal needs to be touching slide evening up and down with a slide curve outward. Mine the seal was straight to slide with no curve and just barely touching slide.
  10. Sub-woofer for TV was under dinette seat by sink side. I removed and re-routed feed line to outside floor area. Secured sub-woofer to seat base with velcro-strips to prevent movement. Note the seat bases were screwed down on both sides and I did not re-install them but installed strips of velco in various spots to hold securely. Now I have new acess and quick storage of items[junk I will probably forget] under seats.
  11. DEF in bulk at truckers fill up islands at Flying J I get for $2.73 a gallon. Easier since fill neck is up in compartment and nozzle fits it well. My fill is on the left that requires me to pull up after diesel fill to accomplish. I do not carry any additional DEF in containers.
Thats about it so far for 7 months of ownership and 6300.0 miles so far. With exception of long term trust of the slides I am pretty pleased with coach. After my Factory visit, I plan on heading up to the U P, Wisconsin, Iowa, S. Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado and back to Gaffney for Camp Freightliner Sept 11-12. So any problems with chassis I will have Gaffney take of them. If anymore Coach problems I will try to have them addressed while attending the Goshen Rally. Keeping my fingers crossed.:thumb:

I also have a July 14th appointment. I have several of the same things that you have listed that need to be addressed on mine. Three items that bother me the most that I am going to have looked at is all three of my auxiliary plugs on the dash show 12 volts but when any device is plugged in the voltage drops to 3 volts on all three plugs. Needless to say none of my devices will work. The second is when the breaker to the clothes drier is off I still show 5 volts at the load side of the breaker. Last but not least the blower motor for the rear A/C cycles from low to off to high speed while the compressor continues to run. It does this about every 5 minutes. See ya in Elkhart.

kokosfriend 06-01-2014 11:53 AM

a BIG question I have is will they develop a way to retrofit a third "worm rail" on the big slides. They are now using 3 on the 2015 units and when I asked about adding a 3rd they said it is not possible on the 2014. If this solves the slide problem - find a way!!!

Redridge 06-01-2014 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokofriend (Post 2076768)
a BIG question I have is will they develop a way to retrofit a third "worm rail" on the big slides. They are now using 3 on the 2015 units and when I asked about adding a 3rd they said it is not possible on the 2014. If this solves the slide problem - find a way!!!

It is possible... they just dont want to do it.

Gingerela 06-02-2014 10:07 AM

I was in Elkhart a couple of weeks ago and asked for the same retrofit without any success. It's the 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' mindset, and I can understand that, although I don't agree with it.

ChallengerRN 06-02-2014 10:10 AM

Depends which side of the fence your on as to how one looks at it.

ChallengerRN 06-02-2014 10:17 AM

Maybe Thor could come out with an aftermarket third rail that they install on the early models for a fee. I bet there are a lot of us (myself for sure) that are willing to pay for a little piece of mind.

RKNOLA 06-03-2014 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChallengerRN (Post 2078233)
Maybe Thor could come out with an aftermarket third rail that they install on the early models for a fee. I bet there are a lot of us (myself for sure) that are willing to pay for a little piece of mind.

I know we would too! We have the 2013.
We asked about the third rail system at the Thor rally in Myrtle Beach. They said no, they have no plans to offer it. They said "we have only had a 5% slide failure rate so far". Someone in the room pointed out "You have more than 5% in this room alone".
So I don't know if they really don't know the actual numbers of owners with slide issues, or if they don't want to know, but for now they said they have no plans to offer the third rail system to any of us.

alindsay 06-19-2014 09:14 AM

So I sent the email and a link to this thread to the Director at Thor...so far nothing...I would have expected some sort of acknowledgment

Not impressed

UKGuy 06-19-2014 09:30 AM

5% failure rate
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RKNOLA (Post 2079901)
I know we would too! We have the 2013.
We asked about the third rail system at the Thor rally in Myrtle Beach. They said no, they have no plans to offer it. They said "we have only had a 5% slide failure rate so far". Someone in the room pointed out "You have more than 5% in this room alone".
So I don't know if they really don't know the actual numbers of owners with slide issues, or if they don't want to know, but for now they said they have no plans to offer the third rail system to any of us.

It's a good job nuclear power stations don't have a 5% failure rate!

Joking aside, 5% is pretty poor and sounds like the person who said it was pretty impressed that it 'only 5%'. Can't think of too many industries where the vendor happily accepts a 5% failure rate. Not sure I'll be adding Thor to my wish list.

mccsix 06-19-2014 09:41 AM

If management publicly states 5% as acceptable, you have found the core problem at Thor.

ChallengerRN 06-19-2014 09:44 AM

I see where GM was sued for 10 Billion in a class action yesterday because of devaluation of their product because they failed to recall in a timely manner. Maybe Thor should read about that instead of letting this large slide linger on. ???

Russell

CJBROWN 06-23-2014 09:07 AM

Are these issues with all Thor products or Palazzo specific?

We looked at the Tuscany 36 over the weekend and liked it enough to buy one - have not pulled the trigger yet...:confused:

ChallengerRN 06-23-2014 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJBROWN (Post 2106704)
Are these issues with all Thor products or Palazzo specific?

We looked at the Tuscany 36 over the weekend and liked it enough to buy one - have not pulled the trigger yet...:confused:



I don't know anything about the Tuscany-- what I do know about is the large slide issues on the Palazzo.

Because of the many failures and issues with this slide the value on the Palazzo with the large slide has gone out the bottom. Thor continues to fix these as they continue to fail but in my opinion are only patching them.

So Thor continues to patch them (some even after warranty). That does nothing for us poor saps that bought these in good faith and have lost thousands in value if we want to trade. (I know this first hand as I have tried to trade 4 times. Once for another Thor).

So your on your own on the Tuscany but as to me I will NEVER buy another Thor product--UNLESS they do a proper fix on the one I have now and make it right to the 2013 & 2014 large slide owners. If they make it right I'll be the first one back here saying they have!!

Russell

radar224 08-17-2014 09:26 AM

We've had so many issues with the quality of our Thor that we decided to sell our unit.

I've attempted to speak several times with Shirley Sylvia in customer service. She simply doesn't return any calls.

For those that are contemplating purchasing a Thor I would suggest to look somewhere else.

Initially our unit had all the right ingredients and appealed to us. It rapidly deteriorated and build quality became evident through the numerous issues we've experienced.

This was not our first RV and I am aware that all manufacturers produce units that suffer from quality control issues.

For us Thor became a money pit abandoned by the people that build it.

I guess we were stuck in the '5%' group.

For us, never again would we look at purchasing a Thor unit and I would encourage those ready to purchase to look past the initial appeal and do your research.

Radar224

ChallengerRN 08-17-2014 10:58 AM

I traded mine too Radar. Took my loss and have much more quality now. Quite happy.

Russell

StevieD 08-17-2014 03:35 PM

I have no reason not to believe anyone about their issues with a Thor product. However we have had two Thor coachs with a number of issues and we have always received service and call backs anytime we requested anything. We have 20,000 miles on our Palazzo and other than one very little nagging issue, our coach is whole and operating perfectly. We have NEVER taken it to a dealer other than for generator service. I think the squeaky wheel gets the grease and we squeaked a lot. Our coach was the 7th 33.2 off the line. All coaches have issues even new Prevost. The only Joachim that doesn't is a Newell, but they only make about 25 a year and I can't afford it. This coach is perfect for us and has served us very well.

We love our coach

terry735001 08-17-2014 04:46 PM

..half-a$$ed approach to building the unit,..

it is sad to think of it this way but its really is the truth

this really is seen every where even in fast food .. its really about putting out numbers of units

keep a good hand full of OK guys to make the units to keep cost down
keep a smaller hand full of good payed fix guys for come backs

when your food is made wrong the numbers DO show that most well not say any thing or care

same thing in the units here.. most do care .. they just dont know its wrong or its not so post to be that way ... so they do get away with alot of it

for the tire kickers/ the guys that know better the RV is going to come back no matter what ... and the higher payed fix guys can make the turn around faster at lower cost ... then some low cost guy holding up the line and slowing down units on the line


how many times did you get your food wrong and not have time to go back
how many times did you get your food wrong and some one other then in the food line fixed it for you so the line did not have to stop
how many times did you just fix it your self ... by removing some thing
talking fast food here

how many times had a dealer //// not the maker of the RV fixed small things
how many RVs just set on the lot for years befor the units are sold

then all so when you add a few moves like you dont want home TV or phone
you then get the no call backs or are you sure you want to do this

this is your home and it only takes a few games to get you to cover the cost and move on in hoping they well make good latter


it is all about numbers and if we know what the numbers really where .. well

radar224 08-17-2014 10:56 PM

StevieD,

I am glad you've got one out of the 95 percentile group.

I can only say this: for us, and it sounds like others, purchasing a Thor turned out to be like playing Russian roulette with your retirement money.

Most of the time you get lucky but sometimes things go wrong.

Weigh the odds, do your research, and make your decision.

For us, I can't say any different, Thor quality and customer service simply failed.

OC Bill 08-18-2014 10:04 AM

I was also in the same situation as you and decided to cut my losses and move on, I was wondering is this the case with all new MHs, but took a chance on Newmar after visiting their factory while my Palazzo was being worked on at Thor. Well I can report that the quality control over at Newmar is quite different than that is practiced at Thor. Our new coach is a big step up in the QA department, after 10,000 miles in four months we have yet to find any loose or left over screws and construction materials. And believe me after the cup fulls of screws we found in our Palazzo we were looking hard. :D

I will admit this is a higher cost coach but the QA shouldn't be different based on cost.

Bill

ChallengerRN 08-18-2014 10:14 AM

Same thing here Bill. I went with Forest River.

Actually today I'm doing a mod to the water area and took a panel off. After what I went thru with the Palazzo I figured the space behind the panel to be full of sawdust & spare screws and plastic.

Nope clean as can be.

Feels good that someone cares about what's behind closed in areas.

Sure not unhappy that I traded the
Palazzo!!!

Russell

tcopeland 08-18-2014 10:20 AM

27,000+ miles on our Palazzo and loving it. We must be in the 95% group. Had a Jayco Melbourne before our "palace". It was junk!

Ridinbear 08-19-2014 01:41 PM

Mine is still ok also but only have 5200 miles.


2013 Palazzo 33.3
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4

StevieD 08-19-2014 02:12 PM

Love my coach!!!

HDRoadking 08-19-2014 04:41 PM

Add me to the love category.


Sent from my iPad using iRV2 - RV Forum

gbburgess 08-19-2014 05:03 PM

Dw and I went to the Tamps Rv show specifically to see the Tuscany and Palazzo. Of course we looked at many others including the Forest River Georgetown. We had a 2007 Georgetown that was great, minor flaws and nothing major for 51,000 miles. After looking at the new FR units we took them off the list. Then we drove to the Tuscany factory from Iowa and went thru the factory twice, morning and afternoon. After getting home and discussing the things we thought were problems we decided to purchase a 2004 Country Coach. For much less money we got much more coach and for the large difference in price (Tuscany) I can fix any and everything. We are not sorry we did not purchase the FR or the Thor units. These continuing threads and associated problems have not changed in the least in the last 2 years. I cannot afford to purchase a potential piece of junk.

Redridge 08-20-2014 07:04 PM

I'm on the love my coach bandwagon... All the personal mods done to her has made her our home.

Gingerela 08-20-2014 07:59 PM

I don't know that I love or hate my Palazzo, truth be told. I do admit that I feel as though I am always waiting for the next shoe to drop. In my first year of ownership, I have had a number of issues that Thor has very promptly addressed when brought to their attention. While they have been great about making things right, the issues never seem to end. Compared to some, my problems don't seem major. My full wall slide sags a bit in the middle but has not failed me yet.

My one year warranty is up in a couple of weeks and I worry about what will give out next. I am currently awaiting the repair of a crack in the fiberglass wall, roll out windows that won't close properly, bubbles in the invisible bra and a broken vent stack under the washing machine that makes the entire coach smell like an open sewer. Today I discovered the bottom trim on the exterior body is detaching in several places. One more thing to add to the list of repairs before that warranty deadline.

So whether I love it or not doesn't really matter. I'm stuck with it now. Compared to some, I could have greater issues, I suppose. For me the question is whether I'd purchase it again given the choice and I don't think I would. I ended up here due to my inexperience with motorhomes and the rush to own one. You know what they say about hindsight. I'd definitely be more diligent in my research the second time around. On a postive note, at least I know what to look for now should the opportunity arise.

ChallengerRN 08-20-2014 08:03 PM

Just think of all the knowledge you have received. Priceless!!!

Russell

powerboatr 08-20-2014 09:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
its not just palazo's
our tuscany had a whole box of extra stuff
if you read this moths motorhome
they did test on a new tuscany tag and it was horrible where quality of build was concerned
lack of info for the radio/dvd coach wide was sparse
our door hinge screws had all sheared at least once and most fell out because the screw hole was to big

i can say before damon walked away i dd manage to secure a whole bunch of electrical diagrams
overall though we really like our tuscany
I know every inch of her now

KarenS144 08-21-2014 08:40 AM

When we first considered a Class A, we looked at a Thor ACE. It was the first year they were introduced and were the rage (according to the salesman). The ACE even won the best new motor home award that someone gives out. We were impressed with the look and the handy features. Someone at Thor really gave some thought to building in a lot of nice things but after opening a few drawers and seeing the particle board sides & sawdust in them, the loose screws here & there, the plastic shower curtain which was apparently supposed to be set at an angle, the broken pet food/water tray, doors that didn't quite meet up and drawers that weren't lined up correctly, we passed.

That was in 2011. It doesn't sound like much has improved in Thor's Quality Control division which is a shame because the ACE & the Palazzo are both very nice looking coaches. I hope that those who have not experienced the problems that plague some owners don't develop issues and that you enjoy your beautiful coach for a long time.

I also hope the bigwigs at Thor reply to this thread (after all this section is sponsored by them so you'd think they'd have an interest) and can enlighten the owners and inquiring minds. Do they not realize how big iRV2 is and how many RV owners read it even though they may not be members? iRV2 isn't the only forum that has unhappy Thor owners either. I'd be suspect of any product Thor builds based on what we saw in that ACE and the problems with the Palazzo.

Gingerela 08-22-2014 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerboatr (Post 2191681)
its not just palazo's
our tuscany had a whole box of extra stuff


I had five times what you have in that photo when I did my walk thru. Consider yourself lucky.

alpha99 09-26-2014 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingerela (Post 2193567)
I had five times what you have in that photo when I did my walk thru. Consider yourself lucky.


Ouch!

RKNOLA 09-27-2014 07:58 AM

it doesn't look like "pride in workmanship" is a job requirement to work on the production floor of the Thor factory. Maybe paying workers "By the coach" isn't such a good idea. As a consumer I would pay more for right than fast!! I think the RV industry is booming so they just pump them out right or wrong to get paid! Sad, and we as the RV buyer pay the ultimate price!!

Corncob 10-04-2014 02:40 PM

I have had two new Montana 5th wheels, Thor product, and my brother bought a new Montana as well. The QC issues are across all Thor lines. I found so much saw dust in every nook and cranny that I thought I had termites. Finding wiring and/or plumbing diagrams is an attempt at the impossible, not available to owners. Probably because a installation technician basically does what they want to get the check in the box. Small parts here and there.
I have a Class A gasser and have been looking to move to a DP and Palazzo has been of interest. But, when I go thru a Palazzo then go thru a competitor's product the QC and cheapness comes to the surface. I believe all RV manufacturers have QC issues and overcome some of them by installing a superior component. Thor has not figured that out yet.

IdahoSRT10 10-06-2014 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corncob (Post 2255902)
I have had two new Montana 5th wheels, Thor product, and my brother bought a new Montana as well. The QC issues are across all Thor lines. I found so much saw dust in every nook and cranny that I thought I had termites. Finding wiring and/or plumbing diagrams is an attempt at the impossible, not available to owners. Probably because a installation technician basically does what they want to get the check in the box. Small parts here and there.
I have a Class A gasser and have been looking to move to a DP and Palazzo has been of interest. But, when I go thru a Palazzo then go thru a competitor's product the QC and cheapness comes to the surface. I believe all RV manufacturers have QC issues and overcome some of them by installing a superior component. Thor has not figured that out yet.

Sawdust an issue.... really? We had every intention of buying a 2015 Palazzo 33.2 until we saw it in person 2 weeks ago. Junk! The wife said there is no way we will trade-in our 2014 FW Storm straight across. The paint was dull, front step broke ,front entry floor popped and was loose, Floor was burnt/ bubbling in a 2' area mid ship, Bed head board was 3" lower on one end and loose.......many other issues before ever starting the engine.:sad:

ChallengerRN 10-06-2014 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoSRT10 (Post 2258556)
Sawdust an issue.... really? We had every intention of buying a 2015 Palazzo 33.2 until we saw it in person 2 weeks ago. Junk! The wife said there is no way we will trade-in our 2014 FW Storm straight across. The paint was dull, front step broke ,front entry floor popped and was loose, Floor was burnt/ bubbling in a 2' area mid ship, Bed head board was 3" lower on one end and loose.......many other issues before ever starting the engine.:sad:


I'm not surprised. Hard to teach old dog new tricks?? Same story different day.

Russell

davidki 10-06-2014 07:33 PM

After reading this thread now I know why Lazy Daze is trying to sell off their Palazo's at a $60,000 discount on the 33' which is the 2014 model.. Wow.

We have been reading about a variety of Class A coach's both Gas and Diesel and the number of issues that "All" manufactures have is incredible... I can't believe that these manufactures can stay in business with all the issues I've seen..

The idea of spending $150,000 and more on one of these motorhomes only to be told that my next stop is a trip back to the factory to have defects fixed is un acceptable and all I can say the MFG's have to be really happy that the Lemon Laws that cover cars will not cover motorhomes. I do not think that onec someone decides to buy one of these things that they feel it is their duty to do the QC .. if it were out of warranty it would cost you $100 per hour to have someone do it so why should the manufacturer think you should do it for free after you purchase it?

To me, there seems to be a huge QC issue with all the manufacturers and until the customers speak with their purchasing power the manufactures will just continue to deliver crap in my opinion! I sure hope you folks with all the units with the issues you have explained get help ... and soon! I can feel your frustration..

If by chance a representative from Thor is reading this thread and comment just know that you have just lost a real prospect for your motorhome... with what i have read you are not worthy of my hard earned dollar!

StevieD 10-07-2014 05:20 AM

The dealers are paid to go over the coach to double check the mfg. they elect to pocket the money and then complain when the customer brings it back . Then they blame the mfg for not giving authorization to fix it. What a business model. Almost $700 per unit for not doing anything.

We love our palazzo

ChallengerRN 10-07-2014 05:31 AM

Thor quality control issues - response from the Director
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieD (Post 2259126)
The dealers are paid to go over the coach to double check the mfg. they elect to pocket the money and then complain when the customer brings it back . Then they blame the mfg for not giving authorization to fix it. What a business model. Almost $700 per unit for not doing anything.

We love our palazzo


My thought is that there should be no need for the dealers to do this if there were QC checks at Thor.

Soot getting in the coach and sawdust in the furnace runs been going on from day one!! Nothing changes.

Maybe an occasional adjustment after the drive to the dealer!!

Russell

ChallengerRN 10-07-2014 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slicker2time (Post 2259193)
Russell, as we all know that is the way it is at auto dealers. RV manufacturers are not in the same realm and do not have to follow the same federal laws and regulations. There is probably no legislation that would be put in place for RV manufacturers because everyone knows it's not a necessity to have or own an RV.


I agree on that.

I put 93,000 on my 2011. F-350 pickup. Never back to dealer for anything except service--I have 12,000 on my 2014 f-350. Not one issue???

I understand QC very well. I have Cat tractors. In the past when I've had warrantee issues. They come to whoever I'm working & fix it. I don't have to take it back to Minnesota at my expense ??

Maybe if enough people complain about a certain model or a given brand (company). Hopefully they will lose enough that someone at top will get the message.

Russell

davidki 10-07-2014 06:52 AM

The dealers get paid for PDI which should only be a quick walk through, touch up any minor issues and a delivery to the customer. There is no way that the major issues that folks posting here should have arrived at the dealer. The dealer should not have to replace stripped screws and or do major surgery on the coach. If this is the shape they are delivered from the factory the manufacturer is the one with real quality control issues because I don't care what folks say, these units are the cost of a house in some cases and a major investment (that loose 1/2 of their value in 5 years) and if the dealer isn't hammering the factory they should be!

I'm not just talking about Thor, I've been looking at all the major manufacturers were interested in a 30 -34' coach and what I read is that once you spend the money for a coach the next trip is to the manufacturer to get fixed what they didn't do the day it was manufactured and that is just crazy! I've talked to folks that have bought Allegro's, and the stories of them sitting at the factory for 2 weeks (in the company parking lot) waiting to get the coach in for warranty repair).

Our last trip out we met a couple that purchased a 42' $400,000 Winnebago DP and they said that they have been back to the factory 2 times to get items that were missed during manufacturing corrected.... I Just wonder if the manufacture will compensate them for the $1 -2,000 in fuel he will use driving it back and the time he had to spend waiting to get it fixed.... I think not!

My patience is running out looking for a place to spend my money that will at least be right when it is delivered.... right now we have a 26' Jayco TT, have had it for 2 years and I have just had it in for the first time to fix a faulty switch.... that's' it in 2 years!

Sorry to unload here but you have to admit reading about all these issues it is no wonder the value of these things drop like a lead balloon as soon as you drive them off the lot!

StevieD 10-07-2014 07:23 AM

I knew of someone that paid over 2 million for a brand new Prevost. He traded it because he had issues. I am doing fine with my palazzo.

davidki 10-07-2014 07:41 AM

In the early 90's we did own a 30' DP, we thought it was great sitting in the driveway .. but the problem is, every time (not just once in a while) we had to have the coach towed back from our trip... it was a disaster... that is why 3 years ago we choose a travel trailer as an alternative.... just the last 6 months I've started to consider going back to a class A thinking our first experiance with the DP was just a fluke....

Steve, what year is your palazzo? what model? who do you have service it? How many miles are on it..

Actually I think the Palazzo looks great, but I'm not willing to spend the money (the one at Lazy Daze in Fla is reduced from $208,000 to $149,000) and worry about constant repairs ... it's just not worth the hassle ... were not even talking full time.. were just talking a few weeks a year!

ChallengerRN 10-07-2014 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieD (Post 2259266)
I knew of someone that paid over 2 million for a brand new Prevost. He traded it because he had issues. I am doing fine with my palazzo.


Lmao. That was Jeff Gordon. His first wife Brook got it.

StevieD 10-07-2014 07:47 AM

We have a little over 20,000 miles on it. We live in the Houston area. Chassis is serviced at Freightliner houston. Generator at dealer. We have. A 33.2 that was number 7 off the line. We have had some issues that have all been corrected by Thor either in Houston or at Elkhart. I cannot afford a Newell, which is the only trouble free coach .

StevieD 10-07-2014 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChallengerRN (Post 2259299)
Lmao. That was Jeff Gordon. His first wife Brook got it.


No actually it was a retired business man in Houston that ended up with a Newell

wstrace3 10-07-2014 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieD (Post 2259307)
We have a little over 20,000 miles on it. We live in the Houston area. Chassis is serviced at Freightliner houston. Generator at dealer. We have. A 33.2 that was number 7 off the line. We have had some issues that have all been corrected by Thor either in Houston or at Elkhart. I cannot afford a Newell, which is the only trouble free coach .

Headed to Spring, TX in a couple weeks..
I'll honk when we pass Houston.:thumb:

StevieD 10-07-2014 09:43 AM

Are you hoping to rayford crossing? If so, what dates.

wstrace3 10-07-2014 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieD (Post 2259449)
Are you hoping to rayford crossing? If so, what dates.

yep.. just two nights for their chili cook off and Halloween stuff for the kids. 10/24 and 10/25. Also need a wash and wax and always have xtreme detail come out and clean us up.. come by if you are in the area.

Martinrv2 10-07-2014 11:12 AM

I did have a Palazzo 36.1 a 23 foot slide out 5 time to shop in 6 months, A persistent problem. Dealer offered to buy back But with a trade in for 2015 or higher price without discounts from shows, another down payment,what should I do ??? D Martin

StevieD 10-07-2014 11:12 AM

Xtreme is awesome . They have actually come to my house. One of them live about a mile from our place. Not sure we can come by , but if we can I will let you know. We have res for the thanksgiving weekend.

wstrace3 10-07-2014 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinrv2 (Post 2259581)
I did have a Palazzo 36.1 a 23 foot slide out 5 time to shop in 6 months, A persistent problem. Dealer offered to buy back But with a trade in for 2015 or higher price without discounts from shows, another down payment,what should I do ??? D Martin

when you say they offered to buy it back.. are they offering exactly what you paid for it ?? minus taxes i'm assuming but the trade would offset towards the new purchase and be a wash on the original value. what percent off of msrp are they offering on the 2015 ??

ChallengerRN 10-07-2014 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinrv2 (Post 2259581)
I did have a Palazzo 36.1 a 23 foot slide out 5 time to shop in 6 months, A persistent problem. Dealer offered to buy back But with a trade in for 2015 or higher price without discounts from shows, another down payment,what should I do ??? D Martin


Not really understanding?? Give us some figures. ??
Are you saying they give you everything back that you paid them?? Then you start over??

Russell.

ChallengerRN 10-07-2014 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinrv2 (Post 2259581)
I did have a Palazzo 36.1 a 23 foot slide out 5 time to shop in 6 months, A persistent problem. Dealer offered to buy back But with a trade in for 2015 or higher price without discounts from shows, another down payment,what should I do ??? D Martin


What my dealer did was to make me a good deal on another Brand. They knew I would never own another Thor so they were quite generous with a deal on a Forest River. They sell both brands.

Next time I trade for sure it will be with them. O Did I say that dealer is Total Value RV in Elkhart. Lol

Russell

wstrace3 10-07-2014 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChallengerRN (Post 2259627)
Not really understanding?? Give us some figures. ??
Are you saying they give you everything back that you paid them?? Then you start over??

Russell.

if that were the case take the deal.. otherwise try to trade later and get killed.

HDRoadking 10-07-2014 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidki (Post 2259291)

Actually I think the Palazzo looks great, but I'm not willing to spend the money (the one at Lazy Daze in Fla is reduced from $208,000 to $149,000) and worry about constant repairs ... it's just not worth the hassle ... were not even talking full time.. were just talking a few weeks a year!


Dave,

That is not a reduced price, that is an about right price. It is the classic mark it up and write it down , then call it a bargain. This too is pretty standard for the industry. 30 % off list price is a pretty good place to start.


Sent from my iPad using iRV2 - RV Forum

IdahoSRT10 10-07-2014 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDRoadking (Post 2259980)
Dave,

That is not a reduced price, that is an about right price. It is the classic mark it up and write it down , then call it a bargain. This too is pretty standard for the industry. 30 % off list price is a pretty good place to start.


Sent from my iPad using iRV2 - RV Forum

The New 2015 Palazzo 33.3 we looked at had a $205K msrp $148k sales price, I figure it could be bought for $135k but it needed a lot of repairs.

ChallengerRN 10-07-2014 06:07 PM

Thor quality control issues - response from the Director
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoSRT10 (Post 2260069)
The New 2015 Palazzo 33.3 we looked at had a $205K msrp $148k sales price, I figure it could be bought for $135k but it needed a lot of repairs.


A 2015 needed a lot of repairs ??? Please explain??

Russell

IdahoSRT10 10-07-2014 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChallengerRN (Post 2260101)
A 2015 needed a lot of repairs ??? Please explain??

Russell

I wish we took our camera but the sales person was right on our tail. New floor (looked like lacquer thinner was spilled on it. The entire lower passenger side paint was scratched (12" x 30' area, not just one long scratch) About 10 other items but we saw enough at that point.

Not that our new Fleetwood was perfect but I was able to fix everything myself except the dash AC (new compressor @ Ford dealer)

Butte64 10-07-2014 10:44 PM

I have over 15,000 miles on my 33.1. Never any slide problems maybe because I don't have a huge slide. Thor has been helpful with a few minor issues. My only significant problem is the CareFree slide topper that gets caught in the wind.

davidki 10-08-2014 06:05 AM

Thanks for the tip on the 30% discount, I didn't realize they went so deep .. back when I was looking years ago I noticed they were always between 22 and 25%. And, you mentioned a starting point at 30% where does it go from there?

I was looking at the Thor website yesterday and noticed that they are offering an additional $5,000 off on 2014 Palazzo's so, they are clearing stock I guess.

With all the issues of what I am reading I'm going to keep looking, we live in the Nashville Tn. area and service may be an issue ... I don't have the time to drive a motorhome back to a factory to get service .... and it seems like quite a few folks that is what they finally end up having to do on some issues... I just don't want that kind of hassle...

HDRoadking 10-08-2014 06:54 AM

Thor quality control issues - response from the Director
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidki (Post 2260675)
Thanks for the tip on the 30% discount, I didn't realize they went so deep .. back when I was looking years ago I noticed they were always between 22 and 25%. And, you mentioned a starting point at 30% where does it go from there?

I was looking at the Thor website yesterday and noticed that they are offering an additional $5,000 off on 2014 Palazzo's so, they are clearing stock I guess.

With all the issues of what I am reading I'm going to keep looking, we live in the Nashville Tn. area and service may be an issue ... I don't have the time to drive a motorhome back to a factory to get service .... and it seems like quite a few folks that is what they finally end up having to do on some issues... I just don't want that kind of hassle...


David,

I read this and several other sites before making our purchase of a 2014 33.2. I had it on order, but could have still backed out. I almost did, but did not know where else I could get the features I wanted at a price point I could afford. I am VERY glad I did not allow all the negative talk to discourage me. We now have about 12,000 miles on our Palazzo, we have owned it for a year and enjoyed every mile and minute. The fuel consumption is affordable and better than most, the floor plan is great and the view out that window is much better than I can get from a plane or a car. I sleep in my own bed every night and I know which drawer my socks are in. The dog can go with us.

We have not had any major problems and the minor ones have been taken care of by Thor. I have glued a couple of cabinets, tightened a few screws, and yes I did get out the vacuum cleaner and got the saw dust out of the furnace vents.

I knew the minute I drove my Palazzo over the curb it was going down in value. I have never purchased a vehicle that did not. I didn't buy it as an investment. I cannot explain why some folks have so many problems and others like myself seem to have none. I think there are a lot more like me, but satisfied folks don't speak up as often or as loud. As for me, I am glad I did not let all the noise discourage me. WE LOVE OUR PALAZZO and are enjoying every trip!

Go Noles! 😓😃


Sent from my iPad using iRV2 - RV Forum

StevieD 10-08-2014 06:56 AM

Ditto

davidki 10-08-2014 05:35 PM

Thanks Bob for the reply and I'm glad to hear that you are having a great time with your unit... you are correct, folks will spend the time to complain, not so much take the time to praise! Not just Motorhomes are treated that way :-)

We started to look at the 32 -34' range of Gas Motorhomes ( our sister in law has a Fleetwood 34' gas, loves it and other than slow climbing the hillls she is happy with her's. My wife and I like the idea of a diesel, and it did look like the Palazzo seemed to hit the mark on price - features with the diesel thrown in. I do understand thate everything has issues and it depends on how that problem is taken care of as to how many issues one has.

The slide issue is concerning but i'm not sure how large the slide on the 33 -34' is and if it is one of the unit that is showing problems or not..

How is the power of the 300hp cummins? What kind of milage are you getting? How much of the DEF does it burn? I"d be interested in what the average "Service" (not warranty issues are) and compare that to a gasser, I'm told that the diesel upkeep and serivice is quite a bit more than gas.

My GMC pick up towing our 26' jayco get about 8 - 10 mpg, it is gas and a 2500 HD which as you can see is not that good of a millage. I've been told that even if we went to a 2500 hd with a diesel it would not be that big of a difference in millage and the cost are almost 2x.

So, that is where I am... Looking for an options that isn't too big and is reasonible on service and millage...

I look forward to your reply.

HDRoadking 10-08-2014 06:06 PM

Thor quality control issues - response from the Director
 
Dave,

I generally drive at about 60 to 62 miles per hour. This is where the sweet spot is based on what I learned at Camp Freightliner. I generally put the transmission in "mode", which is also economy. In the winter I will get mileage approaching or slightly exceeding 12 miles per gallon. In the summer it drops because of running the generator to drive the A/C units. I do this towing a Jeep Wrangler. It also seems to depend whether I find #2 diesel or have to settle for Bio additives.

There is plenty of power. We go to north Georgia a lot and it climbs the hills (mountains) just fine. That too lowers the mileage rate because you cannot use mode and you do "mash on the motor" harder. The engine brake is great for going down hill.

As for DEF it is nominal. I have used maybe 20 gallons in a year, but that is a guess. I pump it at Flying J and that holds the cost down.



Sent from my iPad using iRV2 - RV Forum

HVAC Bill 10-08-2014 07:25 PM

X2 on HDroadkings comments. If you can't enjoy your toy, then sell and move on! Life is too short to read the anti-Thors out there complaining about it. This is not my first RV, but has been the one with the least problems. Lucky me I guess :)

2013 Palazzo 33.3

davidki 10-08-2014 07:25 PM

Bob, thanks for that Info, I found a 2014 for sale at Lazy Daze and sent the link to my wife to look at, but, it shows that one is in the process of a sale but I'll continue to look,

The slide on the 33.2 is quite large, does it have 2 or 3 rails? how has it been working for you?

That fuel mileage is impressive (and you said you got that towing the Jeep)? That is amazing.. with out the Jeep what would you get?

Now sure what you mean on Diesel 2 vs "bio additives"

I need to do quite a bit reading on the chassis and engine I guess, there are quite a few configurations that are offered by Thor and others and even more important the transmission.

We have built an RV garage that with the internal size of 35' I wonder if I could squeeze the 33.2 in to it ... if Not I'd have to have the guy that built the garage come back and extend it one panel.

I had also asked if you could let me know what your standard services are running for you? I guess in most cases it would be a oil change and that would be about it? Do you have that done at a freight liner center?

I have not found another diesel in this size and price range ( I think you mentioned that)..... it is pretty impressive and worth exploring more. I did look at the Tiffin Breeze 32, it is a nice coach but 19" wheels and a custom chassis I'm concerned about repairs and upkeep. I think the Tiffin is only a 240 hp engine and I thin it's a Navstar not a Cummings.

ChallengerRN 10-08-2014 07:32 PM

Thor quality control issues - response from the Director
 
Forest River just came out a couple weeks ago with a 34QS Berkshire
$233,000 list. Should be able to buy it for $170,000 or so. 340 HP cummins
Vinyl tile floor--4 slides. ??!

Russell

StevieD 10-08-2014 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidki (Post 2261713)
Bob, thanks for that Info, I found a 2014 for sale at Lazy Daze and sent the link to my wife to look at, but, it shows that one is in the process of a sale but I'll continue to look,

The slide on the 33.2 is quite large, does it have 2 or 3 rails? how has it been working for you?

That fuel mileage is impressive (and you said you got that towing the Jeep)? That is amazing.. with out the Jeep what would you get?

Now sure what you mean on Diesel 2 vs "bio additives"

I need to do quite a bit reading on the chassis and engine I guess, there are quite a few configurations that are offered by Thor and others and even more important the transmission.

We have built an RV garage that with the internal size of 35' I wonder if I could squeeze the 33.2 in to it ... if Not I'd have to have the guy that built the garage come back and extend it one panel.

I had also asked if you could let me know what your standard services are running for you? I guess in most cases it would be a oil change and that would be about it? Do you have that done at a freight liner center?

I have not found another diesel in this size and price range ( I think you mentioned that)..... it is pretty impressive and worth exploring more. I did look at the Tiffin Breeze 32, it is a nice coach but 19" wheels and a custom chassis I'm concerned about repairs and upkeep. I think the Tiffin is only a 240 hp engine and I thin it's a Navstar not a Cummings.


I had a Serrano with the Navistar . Hated it. The computer is set to detune the engine when it hot outside . When it is hot you have no power. By the way, we liked the Thor Serrano . I wanted the longer bed and the washer and dryer.

HDRoadking 10-08-2014 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidki (Post 2261713)
Bob, thanks for that Info, I found a 2014 for sale at Lazy Daze and sent the link to my wife to look at, but, it shows that one is in the process of a sale but I'll continue to look,

The slide on the 33.2 is quite large, does it have 2 or 3 rails? how has it been working for you?

Bob: two rails, but you need to make sure they are steel, not the original aluminum. The 2015 units now have three swintek motors to move the slide. Mine only has two of those.

That fuel mileage is impressive (and you said you got that towing the Jeep)? That is amazing.. with out the Jeep what would you get?

Bob: I don't think the jeep drags the mileage down much. It is completely behind the coach. It is a Wrangler (2 door) not an unlimited so it is lighter. I don't even know it is back there.

Now sure what you mean on Diesel 2 vs "bio additives"

Bob: #2 diesel is purely diesel. Bio-diesel can have up to 20% French fry grease or what ever they are using. My first Rv was a Winnebago Via on a sprinter chassis. It had a Front end Mercedes diesel and if you put Bio in it the warranty was voided. That is one reason we traded. You can put Bio in the Freightliner and not void the warranty, but you need to change the fuel filters more often.

I need to do quite a bit reading on the chassis and engine I guess, there are quite a few configurations that are offered by Thor and others and even more important the transmission.

We have built an RV garage that with the internal size of 35' I wonder if I could squeeze the 33.2 in to it ... if Not I'd have to have the guy that built the garage come back and extend it one panel.

Bob: Too close for comfort. The coach is 34' 6". Add a tow bar and you are already sticking out.

I had also asked if you could let me know what your standard services are running for you? I guess in most cases it would be a oil change and that would be about it? Do you have that done at a freight liner center?

Bob : I have only had one service. I did that at about 7,500 and they did the 5,000 mile and the 10,000 at the same time. I do not need another until 17,500. Call a Freightliner shop that does motor homes and they can tell you. You keep talking Lazydays and I am going to assume Tampa. The Tampa Freightliner is where Lazydays turns to when they have a problem.

I have not found another diesel in this size and price range ( I think you mentioned that)..... it is pretty impressive and worth exploring more. I did look at the Tiffin Breeze 32, it is a nice coach but 19" wheels and a custom chassis I'm concerned about repairs and upkeep. I think the Tiffin is only a 240 hp engine and I thin it's a Navstar not a Cummings.

Bob: We were looking at a Breeze and opted for the Palazzo. NAVSTAR with Tiffen chassis vs Freightliner. Cummings transmission in the Palazzo. We went with Thor. I have a friend who's Phaeton spent two months in Red Bay, Al for a slide issue, so it can happen to any of them.


Dave,

The answers are built into your quote so I don't forget anything.


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HDRoadking 10-08-2014 08:40 PM

Thor quality control issues - response from the Director
 
Dave,

Went back and read my post. I should have done that before hitting send. I meant Freightliner chassis with a Cummings engine and an Allison transmission. There are Freightliner shops everywhere.




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Jlowers 10-09-2014 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alindsay (Post 2069878)
I received a call today from the Director of Customer Service at Thor. This is in response to my letter outlining my issue and frustration as outlined on this thread - https://www.irv2.com/forums/f281/im-n...on-202903.html

It may fall on deaf ears but he actually asked me to outline all of the qc problems I've seen since taking delivery of my coach and email them to him so he can address these with the production staff.

Since my initial coolant problem, I've found some little quirks that really should have been caught and better yet, should never have happened to my coach.

I am asking each of you to list some areas of concern and I'll include them in my response back to him. I'm not wanting this to be a "Bash Thor" thread but a "what can Thor do to improve delivered coaches" thread.

I'll start:

1) Better document the Sat Prep and if you put a cap with a sign that says Coax cables are below, then put coax cables below.

2) Screw in the valances with a minimal number of screws. Mine had several screws into air - the builder should know where the proper place to screw into is

3) If screws heads are torqued off, fix it and don't deliver the coach that way

4) Better documentation - this goes for most all of the systems in the coach. This documentation should be coach specific and available online for all.

5) Provide owners better assistance with wiring diagrams / schematics of the items on our coaches.

6) Treat the build of the coach like your loved ones will own it. Instead of a half-a$$ed approach to building the unit, take care and have pride in what you build.

7) Understand that current Palazzo owners are the best sales people for future owners. We see and visit with a lot of people as we use our coaches...make us happy and you will sell more units.

8) If a drawer or cabinet is supposed to stay closed while driving, design a way it will stay closed.

Hopefully everyone can contribute their thoughts and future coaches will have improved quality.

Thanks,

Allan

0) Lose the Schwintek slide mechanisms. I've looked at three 2014 Palazzos and a 2013 and those slides are a problem waiting to happen. Supporting a full length slide on four 2-inch aluminum rails demonstrates a severe lack of engineering knowledge to me. At least make them out of steel. Then they could better support the weight and grinding of the gear mechanisms while saving the company money. Finding a Schwintek slide on any coach is a deal-killer for me!

Don Voyage 10-09-2014 04:32 AM

My Palazzo.
 
My Palazzo is coming up on a year old. I have 14,300 miles on it. Currently at Goshen Thor rally after a little over a 3 month tour with coach. I tow a VW Passat on a car tow dolly behind coach. I avg 10.75 to 13.2 miles per gallon with various road conditions. 9.2-9.8 miles per gallon in the Yellowstone and Grand Teton Mountains. This is at 62-62 mph, ecomony mode button lite up on shifter.

ALL coaches have problems some don't. But usually when you get all of the bugs out it's great.

Slides with 2 or with the third stabilizer track at top only have the two (2) motors. Where one poster stated their were three (3) motors is totally wrong. I have had one slide shimmed and the side gaskets replaced with the wider ones. But never had a problem so far. Remember, the manufacturer states that coach MUST BE LEVEL and always go all the way out or in. Never half way because it can cause a drive motor sync problem and "Rack" slide. Problems with this Schwintek/Lippart systems can be found on other brand of coaches and truck campers. It's all in the user procedure and with the larger slides having the 500-1 motors with a steel drive shaft not alum.

I too had problems finding the Sat wire above driving area under the vent cap and sticker. Found out at Elhart they stopped the Sat wire prep to that area 7-2013, my coach was make 10/2013. The shop's manufacturing paperwork wasn't updated to delete this sticker and vent cap placement. Thor then sealed up the area and mounted my auto antenna mid coach between the two a/c units. I am happy with their service on this item.

I bought this coach after the choice was Fleetwood Excusion and Tiffin Open Road Red. My Palazzo had more stuff that was standard and optional on the other two. They all used the same chassis.

Thor is striving and slowly getting there with customer service. If I ever do have a slide malfunction I want only Thor Service techs to repair either in Elkhart or they will fly down their techs to fix your coach at a local dealers shop. I've heard if the problem is too large they will fly down a transporter and drive it back to the factory and return it. Read the posts on quality and service times for the other two coaches I considered and you will find they all are about the same.

The selling dealer gets paid to perform a second functional and visual inspection of their coaches. I know they do not do that and just pocket the money. The screws and sawdust and other items is BOTH parties responsibility!

FYI: At this Thor sponsored rally, one of the benefits of attending they will fix up to three items on any coach for price of parts only. This is good for coaches out of warranty. I plan on attending all of Thor sponsored Rally's in the future not only for possible service but the other coach owners here are great to meet.

So far I am satisfied with my coach. Just had to post my 2 cents.

Don

mikelm48 10-09-2014 05:04 AM

Not that I have any skin in the game, just browsing, but with the QC complaints, has anyone looked at the Newmar Ventanna LE. It starts at $215K and has Comfort Drive in 2015 with 340 HP ISB. I'm sure that that it may have less options on it, but I think you will find the quality and customer service are very good. And I think you are still looking at a 25% to 30% discount possible.

Butte64 10-09-2014 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlowers (Post 2261980)
0) Lose the Schwintek slide mechanisms. I've looked at three 2014 Palazzos and a 2013 and those slides are a problem waiting to happen. Supporting a full length slide on four 2-inch aluminum rails demonstrates a severe lack of engineering knowledge to me. At least make them out of steel. Then they could better support the weight and grinding of the gear mechanisms while saving the company money. Finding a Schwintek slide on any coach is a deal-killer for me!


The weight is not on the slide rails. There are rollers on the floor that support the weight. The rails that are visible are only for moving the slide. The motor is at the top rail and a rod is connected to the gear on the bottom rail to drive it.

There are several brands that use the Schwintek slide system. I was just at an FMCA rally and coaches on display from 5 brands. Some use Schwintek only on smaller slides. I agree that full length slides with Schwintek do not make sense.

Spacing is critical. If the gap between gears and rail is too much the gear does not engage properly and may slip. Leveling is crucial to maintaining proper slide operation.

ChallengerRN 10-09-2014 08:49 AM

I think it's just too much mass for the schwintec system to operate unless everything is perfect.

The same system on the smaller slide outs is working fine. I've heard very little issues with the smaller slides industry wide.

Russell

Jlowers 10-09-2014 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butte64 (Post 2262071)
The weight is not on the slide rails. There are rollers on the floor that support the weight. The rails that are visible are only for moving the slide. The motor is at the top rail and a rod is connected to the gear on the bottom rail to drive it.

There are several brands that use the Schwintek slide system. I was just at an FMCA rally and coaches on display from 5 brands. Some use Schwintek only on smaller slides. I agree that full length slides with Schwintek do not make sense.

Spacing is critical. If the gap between gears and rail is too much the gear does not engage properly and may slip. Leveling is crucial to maintaining proper slide operation.

Yes, the slide will rest on the floor rollers when the slide is closed. When fully open however, most of the slide is hanging outside of the coach as it should. This causes the bottom edge of the slide opening to become a fulcrum, translating forces to the top. So when the slide motors are operating, they have to contend with the weight of the slide as well as simply overcoming inertia. That's why most other slide mechanisms have steel scissors underneath the slide or cable supports at the top. Schwintek also uses a rack and pinion design. This works well for low-load / high-speed operations like steering a sports car, but for a heavy slow-moving slide, a worm gear or jack screw mechanism is more suitable. Using a steel pinion in an aluminum rack will cause the gears to jump the rails as soon as it grinds away enough metal. This is inevitable with enough use. The result is that the slide will become misaligned and stick in the opening.

streamcamper 10-09-2014 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlowers (Post 2262562)
Yes, the slide will rest on the floor rollers when the slide is closed. When fully open however, most of the slide is hanging outside of the coach as it should. This causes the bottom edge of the slide opening to become a fulcrum, translating forces to the top. So when the slide motors are operating, they have to contend with the weight of the slide as well as simply overcoming inertia. That's why most other slide mechanisms have steel scissors underneath the slide or cable supports at the top. Schwintek also uses a rack and pinion design. This works well for low-load / high-speed operations like steering a sports car, but for a heavy slow-moving slide, a worm gear or jack screw mechanism is more suitable. Using a steel pinion in an aluminum rack will cause the gears to jump the rails as soon as it grinds away enough metal. This is inevitable with enough use. The result is that the slide will become misaligned and stick in the opening.

Technically, the slide is "hanging" whether fully retracted or extended. What keeps the slide level at all times is the torque shaft that is connected to the motor and drives both gears, upper and lower.

IdahoSRT10 10-09-2014 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streamcamper (Post 2262868)
Technically, the slide is "hanging" whether fully retracted or extended. What keeps the slide level at all times is the torque shaft that is connected to the motor and drives both gears, upper and lower.

Positive Reps :thumb: for Streamcamper and Jlowers. The slide gear track should be made from a quality steel.


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