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-   -   Tag axle wheel possible leak (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/tag-axle-wheel-possible-leak-209299.html)

taraf 06-27-2014 01:20 PM

Tag axle wheel possible leak
 
While inspecting my wheels I noticed my left rear tag axle appears to be bleeding grease or oil from the center of the wheel, perhaps wheel bearing?
The other wheels are clean. Is this something to be concerned with?

https://i59.tinypic.com/n2xxsp.jpg


Thanks, Tom
2014 Anthem 44DLQ

brobox 06-27-2014 01:31 PM

Yes, it is a problem. DSL417 just reported the same issue.
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/wher...ml#post2110745

Nowabeachbum 06-27-2014 02:29 PM

No, it is not a big concern. It will need to be taken care of but not immediately. I put about 6000 miles on mine before it got fixed. I just checked the oil periodically. It is usually caused by too much gear lube or a leaking outer seal. It is mostly an inconvenience. Take your Spartan wheel cap removal tool and take off the cap. When you do you will see a red rubber plug in the middle of a clear plastic disk. The clear disk has lines that show you how full of oil it should be The axle has 90 weight gear lube in it. If you need to add some, just pull the rubber plug and fill to the line. Make sure the coach is level when checking.

Marcosdad 06-27-2014 04:38 PM

There's a fix. I had it done while at Spartan, but I assume any Spartan warranty shop could do it.

taraf 06-27-2014 04:43 PM

I pulled the wheel cap off with the wrench, but can't get the large chrome cover off the wheel seems stuck by the lug nuts...how do I remove the cover?

Tom
2014 Anthem 44DLQ

brobox 06-27-2014 04:46 PM

Gary, A greasy wheel is a big problem for me. :laugh: The clean up would drive me nuts.

Twomed 06-27-2014 05:07 PM

The center hub cap (end piece under the nut you removed) will come off. Sometimes you have to use a long screwdriver from the back side through the holes in the wheel and tap lightly to get it off.

The rubber plug has a vent hole in it...veeeery small, like needle size. If it gets plugged or was not formed properly the wheel can force grease past the seal when it warms up, or sometimes with changes in elevation, like travelling from flatlands to the Rockies. Cheapest, easiest thing to check first. In any case once you get the cap off the cause of the leak should be evident.

oneal 06-27-2014 05:12 PM

It needs addressed, but not emergent. As Gary stated just check the oil level on the bearing on occasion.

Nowabeachbum 06-27-2014 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brobox (Post 2112979)
Gary, A greasy wheel is a big problem for me. :laugh: The clean up would drive me nuts.

That is the main reason it needs to be addressed! The amount of oil that actually leaks out is usually minimal.

brobox 06-27-2014 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowabeachbum (Post 2113018)
That is the main reason it needs to be addressed! The amount of oil that actually leaks out is usually minimal.

After restoring and showing Corvettes for 20 years, (nothing on the scale of Dusty56) any drop of oil out of place drives me nuts and is major. :D I drive the DW nuts with that. Do you know how hard it is to get 90 weight from behind the lug nut covers? :laugh:

taraf 06-27-2014 07:14 PM

Ok, I got the big chrome cover off, just banged on it with fist...then I found one of the 6 bolts completely off. So I put thread lock and tightened and 4 of the 6 bolts were loose.

Thanks, Tom
2014 Anthem 44DLQ

Twomed 06-27-2014 07:24 PM

Easy fix....I love those. :) :)

TonyDi 06-27-2014 08:06 PM

Taraf I was told some time ago that when yoou take that center hub off put a couple of dots of clear silicone on it when putting it back on. It keeps the hub from popping off. I learned it the hard way, and that hub from Spartan is not cheap.

Ann n Gene 06-27-2014 09:52 PM

Popping off is why Entegra and Spartan put the nut on it and furnished the nut wrench. It should not pop off if the nut is tight. All JMHO

DSL417 06-27-2014 11:32 PM

OK...so I posted this issue earlier. Second time I've had mine fixed. I don't think it is common, but it can be one of several things in the hub seal and tube assembly. I had mine fixed once previously at Spartan. That held for about 10k miles and I had the leak start again between March and Jun...not sure when.

A very small amount of fluid looks like a major problem, as mine did in the picture on the previously mentioned thread. I had the coach detailed and the leak again showed, but not as much after another two hundred miles. I called Spartan and they selected a place to fix it. After showing the tech the previous picture, his discussion with Spartan resulted in everything associated with the seal and tubes changed.

That said, during the entire two episodes, the hub fluid showed at the full line. Thus my comment, a little looks real bad. You can drive on it as Gary says, but you do need to periodically check the fluid level. If it gets low, it is a relatively easy fix.

Tyler6357 06-28-2014 04:09 AM

That looks like a differential fluid leak, or gear oil. If it's black like that it usually means it needs to be replaced. It shouldn't be replaced as often as engine oil but it should be on your maintenance schedule.

DSL417 06-28-2014 08:26 AM

Nope, it is hub oil, and it just collects dust and looks bad, even the smallest of leaks. After it gets a little dust in it, it is hardly even greasy to the touch...almost like brake dust.

WDE 06-28-2014 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417 (Post 2113735)
Nope, it is hub oil, and it just collects dust and looks bad, even the smallest of leaks. After it gets a little dust in it, it is hardly even greasy to the touch...almost like brake dust.

Dave is right. Oil cakes and wipes off relatively easy ... not oily. A pain, but not a problem if watched. Will have it fixed while at Spartan in September.

Josh2129 06-28-2014 11:19 AM

Same problem with leaking fluid on right tag axle wheel, will have it checked when I'm at the Spartan class in August. How common is this leak?

Twomed 06-28-2014 02:21 PM

Wet bearings leak for several reasons.

Improper seal install....not real common
Loose/cracked hub cover hub cover...what the OP had
Dry seal...if you don't move your coach frequently wet seals are problematic
Plugged vent hole in the filler plug...caused by dirt buildup on the plug

Trucking industry uses lots of wet seal ends, but they move all the time, easy to check, maintain. Wet ends in the RV industry have gone in cycles over time, but most all tags (22.5 size tire tags) are wet so they need to be checked visually at least annually for fluid levels. You may have wet bearings on the front as well.

DSL417 06-28-2014 08:15 PM

Since I posted the picture, I have heard from maybe five folks. My guess is that represents less than 5% of the larger population, as we only have about 20% of the Entegra owners that frequent this forum.

TerryO 06-28-2014 09:15 PM

Had one of ours leaking after about 10k miles. Easy fix by Spartan while we were at Middlebury for our PDI. A very small amount of oil goes a long way in making a mess.

johnnyreno 06-29-2014 01:19 AM

I have noticed it also

brobox 06-29-2014 06:05 AM

I guess I will pick up or find where I can get a hub seal locally. They are an easy change and having a greasy wheel would drive me nuts. Has there been any problems with the front axel seals or has it been all tag axels?

bamaboy473 06-29-2014 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taraf (Post 2113128)
Ok, I got the big chrome cover off, just banged on it with fist...then I found one of the 6 bolts completely off. So I put thread lock and tightened and 4 of the 6 bolts were loose.

Thanks, Tom
2014 Anthem 44DLQ


Did you check the other wheel for tight bolts? Maybe slow turning stresses tags a lot more, and might torque them loose?

hogdriver 06-29-2014 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417 (Post 2114476)
Since I posted the picture, I have heard from maybe five folks. My guess is that represents less than 5% of the larger population, as we only have about 20% of the Entegra owners that frequent this forum.

I can't guess the percentage, but there is some random " luck" involved. My previous Aspire leaked like DSL Dave's (built around the same time as his). My 14 Anthem 44B has got about 5000mi now and nary a drop. My 14 Anthem was built within a week of Brobox Chucks's RV. On the Aspire I had it was very noticeable by 5000mi. I don't know if sometimes the seals are seated well vs not so well or the seals themselves have variations. So far, knocking on wood, no drips. On my Aspire I would periodically remove the wheel covers and lug covers and wipe everything down. 1000 mi later it would be back.

DSL417 06-29-2014 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brobox (Post 2114782)
I guess I will pick up or find where I can get a hub seal locally. They are an easy change and having a greasy wheel would drive me nuts. Has there been any problems with the front axel seals or has it been all tag axels?

Why borrow trouble...is yours leaking? No problems with other axles. 1200 coaches and around five people have ID'd it here. Pretty small numbers. As to the who and where to fix...I think you have to call Spartan and get them to ID a place. They have approved repair facilities all over.. Best to use who they have the best luck with, with Spartan places the best as they'll have the part...task takes less than two hours to replace the whole thing. JMHO

brobox 06-29-2014 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417 (Post 2115089)
Why borrow trouble...is yours leaking? No problems with other axles. 1200 coaches and around five people have ID'd it here. Pretty small numbers. As to the who and where to fix...I think you have to call Spartan and get them to ID a place. They have approved repair facilities all over.. Best to use who they have the best luck with, with Spartan places the best as they'll have the part...task takes less than two hours to replace the whole thing. JMHO

You are on you second one...that makes 6 :laugh:

DSL417 06-29-2014 05:09 PM

Yep...having so many problems...think i'll trade for a Newmar or a Newell.

sweetandsour 06-29-2014 08:53 PM

We also had an oil leak on our left side tag on our '14 Aspire after the first 2000 miles, had seal replaced. Right front also leaking oil but it turned out to be just over filled from the factory, drained to proper level and so far all is well.

johnnyreno 06-30-2014 12:12 AM

good point may just be too much in em

Tom and Dee 06-30-2014 07:09 AM

My tag has leaked for 2 years and Spartan said that it would stop, will they were wrong. I'm going back next month will see if they will fix it. what a pain to clean the wheels each night.

Saltydog44 07-01-2014 07:21 PM

Had a leak - Looks worse than it is. Seal replaced when I had the oil changed.

brobox 07-02-2014 06:58 AM

I talk with my heavy equipment mechanic regarding this post and he informed me that many of the leaks can be fixed by tighten the alan bolts. If not, replacing the seal behind the cover is a simple but messy job. Lots of 90 weight, a quart plus. It is very rare that it is the axle seal that leaks. I am going to check and make sure I have have a heavy alan wrench on board of the correct size.

I found out I can change a hub seal faster that getting an appointment with a Spartan shop in my area.

DSL417 07-02-2014 09:25 AM

Well, I suspect there is a little more to it than that as the tech was working on both the inside of the tag as well as just that outside hub view. He said he replace the whole hub seal assembly...but what do I know...I was only observing.

brobox 07-02-2014 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417 (Post 2119564)
Well, I suspect there is a little more to it than that as the tech was working on both the inside of the tag as well as just that outside hub view. He said he replace the whole hub seal assembly...but what do I know...I was only observing.

That is probably not the first time a warranty claim has been milked. I just passed along what a 13 year heavy equipment mechanic told me when I asked about this post. I am fortunate that mechanic is now an A & E mechanic that works at my storage hanger full-time as an aricraft mechanic. It's nice to have a darn good mechanic to ask these questions of and help when I need it.

DSL417 07-02-2014 10:22 PM

That's great...I'm on the road 365...so when Spartan tells me where they'd like me to go out of half a dozen alternatives because they like their work, I'll go where Spartan is paying for it. They obviously have preferred work facilities. The tech that worked my vehicle basically viewed it as you've already had to put up with this once, he said he'd take care of the full system....but that why we live in America...you can do what you darn well please!

voltdoc 07-04-2014 02:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
FWIW, was just at Spartan week before last (and week before that too). I was not seeing any leakage at the tag and made no complaint, however I had these items on my paperwork:

Customer Check-In:
Complaint: Tag Axle Leak TSB13-340-01
Cause: TSB
Correction: Install new updated plugs (Part# S-2415-001) and cut hub cap bolts to clear the new plugs

Repair Order (warranty):
Complaint: Service technician found broken Stemco cover studs
Cause: Failed Studs
Correction: Replace both studs and torqued them but the covers started to leak so we replaced the covers and gaskets.

So there seems to be a TSB for the Stemco cover plug, at least for my 2013. The photo attached was taken after the repair work, I believe the cover plug is the blue cap at the center as can be partially seen in the photo. Note you can also see the oil level - it is up to the full mark.

My front axle (not IFS) wet ends are different and are made by Dana. Have not seen any leaks there either.

brobox 07-04-2014 02:35 PM

Nice follow up Rob, Thanks, That might explain a few of the problem.

ImagineIF 07-04-2014 02:57 PM

Wet hub leaks aren't that uncommon. They typically leak due to:
-- Over filled. Most have 2 circles and most are full between the circles. You can run near the the lower circle with no fear.
-- Leaking fill/drain. Many have a fill/drain plug on the side. These leak after being over tightened.
-- Plugged vent. As already stated there is a very small vent in the middle of the plug.
-- Plug failure. Probably rare, but I have seen the plug no longer seal.

The good news is these covers are cheap and easily replaced. Don't over torgue the mounting bolts.

wmpbauer 07-04-2014 07:51 PM

Interesting...

I've had some minor drainage of oil from my wet seals, but not much actual oil. A little bit makes a big mess!

More of a concern, is trying to add engine oil. Doug French came over before we left Florida to weigh my coach, and I was checking the oil. I was a gallon low, and had oil all over my engine compartment. Seems the tech didn't actually tighten up the oil filter! Well, to make a long story short, I had to trap the rear engine compartment door part-way open, and I still couldn't pour oil into the neck of the filler tube. I literally had to pull the rear hatch half-way down and tie it, get a step ladder, and still had to add oil a cup at a time. It is my understanding that they've made a major change to the location of the neck of the filler-tube since the mid-'13 model year, but I'm going to ask for a modification during my PDI in mid-September.

Not meaning to Hijack the thread.


Wmpbauer

Finally 07-06-2014 06:48 PM

My wheel had the same oil leak patterns on some of them. I called Spartan, made and appointment They are aware of an issue and had all of my hub seals replaced. I was told that none of my original hub seals were leaking; what I was seeing was grease placed on the wheel bolts that was being flung off. I still see the streaks but on less wheel so I'll call Spartan again and send more pictures but the oil levels are still ok.


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