iRV2 Forums

iRV2 Forums (https://www.irv2.com/forums/)
-   Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/)
-   -   NEED HELP 2014 Dodge Ram 2500 5.7 V8 (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/need-help-2014-dodge-ram-2500-5-7-v8-211883.html)

Esdharbour22 07-16-2014 02:00 PM

NEED HELP 2014 Dodge Ram 2500 5.7 V8
 
My husband & I currently have a 07 Tundra & a 29ft TT. We're upgrading the camper to a 5ver, 2014 Coachman Chaparral Lite 279BHS, YAY!! But upgrading the camper also means upgrading the truck. We're leaning towards a 2014 Dodge Ram 2500 5.7L V8. He's crunched all the numbers & he knows that this truck will tow the camper but we wanted to see if anyone out there has the same setup or something similar. Does it tow good? He doesn't want to go buy the truck to only find out it lacks in towing. Any info/advise is appreciated! THX in advance & HAPPY CAMPING!

DieselTech39 07-16-2014 02:47 PM

:welcome:

Glad you're aboard. If you look at the tool bar at the top of the page under the irv2.com logo, hold your cursor over the RV Forums and you'll find forums for 5ers. That would be a good place to pose your question too. Congrats on the new digs. Best of luck in your decision for a tow vehicle. Enjoy your adventures and be safe.

Medico 07-16-2014 05:04 PM

https://www.irv2.com/attachments/phot...298df81aed.gif Welcome and glad to meet you!

D Lindy 07-16-2014 05:25 PM

Bare in mind that you will likely upgrade your 5ver again to something bigger. While a Dodge 3500 diesel might be over kill for now when you upgrade again you'll still have a truck that can tow that much larger 5ver.

Fred1609 07-16-2014 06:39 PM

I would get into a diesel.....much better towing......and if you upgrade you wont have to take a bath on your pickup.....do it once and get the best.

MSHappyCampers 07-16-2014 06:52 PM

Hi folks! Welcome to IRV2! It's great to have you join us! :dance:

Congrats on the new rig! Enjoy the forum!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless! :thumb::D

JohnRR 07-16-2014 06:58 PM

:welcome:
Good luck with your choice.

Esdharbour22 07-16-2014 07:56 PM

THX y'all for the info. Unfortunately we can't afford a diesel so that's outta the question. Does anyone have any info regarding the 2014 ram 2500 5.7 v8 & towing a 2014 Coachman Chaparral lite 279BHS? We've both been doing research for over a wk now & can't get a straight answer. All info I could find is about a diesel. We live in Va & we camp pretty close. We just got back from myrtle beach & our current camper was just too small for us. Now were thinking about going to Fl maybe next yr. Other than that we stay w/in 3-4 hrs from home. Would this truck be ok to pull the Chaparral you think?

Ultrapapa10 07-16-2014 08:24 PM

If your going to up grade the truck . Look at 6.4 hemi more tow power then 5.7

Mekanic 07-16-2014 08:25 PM

in the 2500 HD(& 3500) they also offer a 6.4L Hemi also with Multi displacement feature that will help some (mostly when unloaded) MPG.

JIMNLIN 07-16-2014 08:35 PM

Can it tow it question without any weights is asking a lot from us.

Truck ? We have no idea what cab selection/gearing/2wd or 4wd/tow rating/trucks GAWRs and GVWR/etc.

Trailer ?? Same with the trailer. Need a GVWR for it.

Many folks have the same truck but may pull the same weight trailer. It doesn't have to be the same brand trailer.
Help us out with some numbers.

Ultrapapa10 07-16-2014 09:01 PM

4wd is nice but if you don't need it then get the 2wd. Look for 3.73 gear if you can I tow with 3.55 and have no problem and 4wd but if your going to up grade to the ram go with 6.4 Hemi the cost is about the same so go with the 3500

Esdharbour22 07-16-2014 09:24 PM

Lol sorry about that!! I guess some numbers would be helpful lol. We're looking at a 2014 ram 2500 5.7L hemi v8, 4.10 gears, 4WD, crew cab. The 5th wheel is 8870lbs dry, 35'10 & I don't know the pin weight. We're not dead set on this camper but we are looking for something similar. Specs on the truck say it can tow a loaded trailer weight of 13,200#. I have come across some calculators on line that say it can only tow a 5th wheel that is around 9000# max. It' seems like they are adding the pin weight as payload then using the full trailer weight in the calculation. This is where the confusion sets in. I know any cargo/passengers in the truck takes away from the towing capacity but from 13,200 to 9000 seems like a huge drop when none of that was added into the equation. We would LOVE a diesel, but like I said before...it's not in the budget & whatever truck we get will be our only vehicle . I just sold my 07 Tundra tonight & plan on trading in my wife's 2013 Durango ASAP. I have a company car & since my wife is a stay at home mom, she rarely drives

gggplaya 07-16-2014 09:28 PM

6.4L hemi isn't much more money, and it's far better to spend the money now, then have to trade your truck in later. Towing a 5th wheel is asking alot from the rev happy 5.7L. Make sure you get the highest numerical final drive ratio possible.

Also, it's a 36foot total length 5ver with an 11,200lbs GVWR and a 2000lb tongue weight dry. I'm assuming you're getting a crew cab because there's a quad bunk in the back.

I'd recommend a 3500, but if you want the 2500(smoother daily driver), then you should get the 6.4L hemi because the 5.7L only has a payload rating of about 2500lbs for a 4x2 and 2100lbs for a 4x4. You'll easily be over if you load up the kids and yourself, with a full tank of fuel. The 6.4L hemi in most configuration averages about 700lbs more payload. Even then, that's not alot of headroom.

The 6.4L and the 5.7L in the 2500 is probably going to get about the same fuel economy. The 6.4 might even get better highway economy because it was designed for more low end grunt, which enables the cylinder deactivation to stay active much longer. The 5.7L was a design compromise because it was also designed for cars as well. Many of the design and materials used in the construction of pistons, the block, and heads are all compromises for weight savings, and less mass. Meanwhile the 6.4L hemi was designed as a truck engine(while the challenger is cool and the 6.4L debuted in it first, it doesn't make chrysler much money so why design a specific engine for it and adapt it to trucks). It has a cast iron block, and piston oil cooler jets, and is simply built to take some abuse. It's built for towing. The 5.7L is still there for people that tow very infrequently but haul enough to need a HD truck.

If you do get a 2500, then make sure you install rear airbags or helper springs, you're close to the max GVWR, so you're going to need them.

Ultrapapa10 07-16-2014 09:38 PM

Don't do the 4.10 rear look at 3.55 or 3.73

terry735001 07-16-2014 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esdharbour22 (Post 2141299)
Lol sorry about that!! I guess some numbers would be helpful lol. We're looking at a 2014 ram 2500 5.7L hemi v8, 4.10 gears, 4WD, crew cab. The 5th wheel is 8870lbs dry, 35'10 & I don't know the pin weight. We're not dead set on this camper but we are looking for something similar. Specs on the truck say it can tow a loaded trailer weight of 13,200#. I have come across some calculators on line that say it can only tow a 5th wheel that is around 9000# max. It' seems like they are adding the pin weight as payload then using the full trailer weight in the calculation. This is where the confusion sets in. I know any cargo/passengers in the truck takes away from the towing capacity but from 13,200 to 9000 seems like a huge drop when none of that was added into the equation. We would LOVE a diesel, but like I said before...it's not in the budget & whatever truck we get will be our only vehicle . I just sold my 07 Tundra tonight & plan on trading in my wife's 2013 Durango ASAP. I have a company car & since my wife is a stay at home mom, she rarely drives


humm i would look in to the trans that comes with the truck as the 9000# max that some are saying could be right

one thing to keep in mine .. what can the park pall in the trans hold back on a hill

there have been many run away trucks over this and so there is only one tire and a park pall to hold you back

some well say i never park on a hill :facepalm: .. nether did the run away trucks on a hill that got stopped for a car crash or some thing funny going down a hill on a funny road .. or braking down going up a hill

just about any truck can move and stop a load but we want you to be safe with the number and GVWR all the number you can find and give well help alot of us here to help

Highway 4x4 07-17-2014 12:06 AM

You are really going to want the 6.4 if you are sticking with gas. The 5.7 really isn't going to pull that big 5er no matter what the gears you have and if you do the 5.7 you will not be happy unless you really like hearing a V-8 at 5000 RPMs on every hill. There is a long thread about the 6.4 and towing on the Cummins Forum. I had a 5.7 in a 2500 and pulled a 6400 pound TT one time then sold the truck to my son who never tows. There is talk that the 2500 with 6.4 will get the 8 speed trans soon and that will really help. The 6 speed will do it and 3.73's will give you best of both worlds. If you go with 4x4 it will help you sell the truck at the other end. Ram's new 4x4 system has no effect on MPG.

jimcumminsw 07-17-2014 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esdharbour22 (Post 2141157)
THX y'all for the info. Unfortunately we can't afford a diesel so that's outta the question. Does anyone have any info regarding the 2014 ram 2500 5.7 v8 & towing a 2014 Coachman Chaparral lite 279BHS? We've both been doing research for over a wk now & can't get a straight answer. All info I could find is about a diesel. We live in Va & we camp pretty close. We just got back from myrtle beach & our current camper was just too small for us. Now were thinking about going to Fl maybe next yr. Other than that we stay w/in 3-4 hrs from home. Would this truck be ok to pull the Chaparral you think?

How do you know that you can not afford a diesel engine pick-up truck? Have you gone to the dealer and asked what they are really selling for; not the MSRP.

You can also look at the 1500 ECO-diesel Ram truck or a 2500 Ram Tradesman truck. The tradesman with the 6.7L Cummins and the 6 sped automatic transmission MSRP is around $38,505. You do not have to have the top of the line pick-up truck to get a diesel engine equipped truck.

Back in Nov 07, I purchased a 2500 SLT Ram with the Cummins and 6 sped auto for $38,000; MSRP was a little under $50K. Ram will deal to sell trucks.

Jim W.

gggplaya 07-17-2014 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw (Post 2141720)
How do you know that you can not afford a diesel engine pick-up truck? Have you gone to the dealer and asked what they are really selling for; not the MSRP.

You can also look at the 1500 ECO-diesel Ram truck or a 2500 Ram Tradesman truck. The tradesman with the 6.7L Cummins and the 6 sped automatic transmission MSRP is around $38,505. You do not have to have the top of the line pick-up truck to get a diesel engine equipped truck.

Back in Nov 07, I purchased a 2500 SLT Ram with the Cummins and 6 sped auto for $38,000; MSRP was a little under $50K. Ram will deal to sell trucks.

Jim W.

1500 ecodiesel has exceptionally low payload ratings, like 1000-1300lbs. It truly is a half ton pickup.

fvstringpicker 07-17-2014 12:51 PM

You may want to consider backing down to a 2012-13 and go with a diesel. Kinda what I did. I didn't want to get to a point where I to factor in a full tank of gas to see if I'd be overloaded.

jimcumminsw 07-17-2014 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gggplaya (Post 2141910)
1500 ecodiesel has exceptionally low payload ratings, like 1000-1300lbs. It truly is a half ton pickup.

This is per the latest information from Ram trucks, an I quote.

"RAM TRUCK ANNOUNCES INDUSTRY'S BROADEST ALIGNMENT WITH SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS (SAE) J2807 TOWING STANDARDS ACROSS ALL PICKUP TRUCK SEGMENTS
- Ram Truck is the only full-size pickup truck manufacturer to adopt the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J2807 towing practices in all three pickup truck segments (1/2-ton, ¾- ton and 1-ton)

- Ram pickup maximum towing capacities unchanged or improved under SAE standardized J2807

- Ram 1500 owns the top positions in pickup fuel economy and SAE affirmed towing capacity for V-6 engines

- Ram 1500 3.0-liter V-6 EcoDiesel with 8-speed transmission combines best-in-class fuel economy of 28 MPG with up to 9,200
lbs. of towing capacity"


I posted only what pertained to the ECO-Diesel truck in the 1500 segment.

for more information see this link:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/

Jim W.

SmokeyWren 07-17-2014 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw (Post 2142093)
- Ram 1500 3.0-liter V-6 EcoDiesel with 8-speed transmission combines best-in-class fuel economy of 28 MPG with up to 9,200 lbs. of towing capacity"...

That doesn't answer gggplaya's point. That truck doesn't have enough payload capacity to handle the hitch weight of even a tiny tandem-axle RV trailer. You will run out of payload capacity for hitch weight long before you get close to the manufacturer's published towing capacity. It's probably similar to my F-150 EcoBoost in that light. Mine has a tow rating of 8,400 pounds, and it can easily tow that heavy a trailer over hill and dale without breathing hard, but it runs out of payload capacity for hitch weight with my TT that grosses only 4,870 pounds.

Jugghead 07-17-2014 04:38 PM

I'll assume your weight calculations are in your favor. I previously had a RAM1500 with the 5.7 and I was pulling a 8k TT. That engine worked really hard pulling that thing. Honestly it unnerved me how frequently it was at 4000 RPMs to keep speed, that I move up to the diesel. If you got to go with the gas, I encourage you to get the 6.4.

Mekanic 07-17-2014 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jugghead (Post 2142314)
I'll assume your weight calculations are in your favor. I previously had a RAM1500 with the 5.7 and I was pulling a 8k TT. That engine worked really hard pulling that thing. Honestly it unnerved me how frequently it was at 4000 RPMs to keep speed, that I move up to the diesel. If you got to go with the gas, I encourage you to get the 6.4.

The power curves of the newer engines are Nothing like the old one a lot of us are used to.
Where years ago 4000 RPM was the point where no more power was had if you went higher, and that is now where a many of these newer engine just start to work well. Today 4000 RPM won't hurt any of the newer design engines.
This has happened on all the trucks. GM, Ford and Chrsyler.
The LS, Tritons, and late model Hemis are all designed for much higher RPMs over the older designs.
They all have 2 things in common, crank driven oil pumps, and NO distributors.

caissiel 07-18-2014 12:30 AM

If it was me I would keep the Tundra as it has a 2000 lbs advantage and the engine cab run at 5000 RPM all day long.
Money saved will buy a Ram 1500 diesel later that will definitely be the best choice for that lite model trailer. Also Ford eco boost will do fine.
But the 250/2500 has definitely a 2000 lbs disadvantage with a 5.7 engine.
It can do it but not practical for me.

gggplaya 07-18-2014 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caissiel (Post 2142799)
If it was me I would keep the Tundra as it has a 2000 lbs advantage and the engine cab run at 5000 RPM all day long.
Money saved will buy a Ram 1500 diesel later that will definitely be the best choice for that lite model trailer. Also Ford eco boost will do fine.
But the 250/2500 has definitely a 2000 lbs disadvantage with a 5.7 engine.
It can do it but not practical for me.

Can't really pull a fifth wheel with a tundra reliably. That extra 2000lbs of frame and beefier axle components are there for a reason.

jimcumminsw 07-18-2014 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren (Post 2142163)
That doesn't answer gggplaya's point. That truck doesn't have enough payload capacity to handle the hitch weight of even a tiny tandem-axle RV trailer. You will run out of payload capacity for hitch weight long before you get close to the manufacturer's published towing capacity. It's probably similar to my F-150 EcoBoost in that light. Mine has a tow rating of 8,400 pounds, and it can easily tow that heavy a trailer over hill and dale without breathing hard, but it runs out of payload capacity for hitch weight with my TT that grosses only 4,870 pounds.


SmokeyWren; would you agree that the authors of SAE: J2807 Towing Standard knows what to include and not include in this standard. Since the authors are vehicle engineers at the various manufacturing plants in the US. At least this was the way when we authored articles and standards for SAE in the heavy equipment industry.

This is a synopsis from the STANDARD which Ram has included in the article for their press release; and I quote

"The SAE J2807 towing standard outlines dynamic and performance criteria as it relates to a given vehicle. Examples within the standard include a number of tests while towing: 0-60 MPH time allowance, tackling the notorious Davis Dam Grade while maintaining no less than 40 MPH for single-rear-wheel trucks and 35 MPH for dual-rear-wheel trucks, a constant radius under steer test while increasing speed and a sway maneuver using aggressive steering input. The purpose is to put all trucks through the schedule of tests in which operators will likely see in the real world. SAE standards have existed in a number of other areas including engine torque and horsepower. Ram Truck is the first to adopt the official towing standard for ½-ton, ¾-ton and 1-ton trucks."

Where in this synopsis is the mention of payload capacity for towing?

Ram even states in their "RAM BODY BULIDER'S GUIDE" in foot note three and I quote” Payload and maximum trailer weights are mutually exclusive. Additionally, the GAWR’s and the GVWR should never be exceeded.”

To me this means that the frame of the truck and suspension of the truck is carrying the load not the pick-up bed of the truck. When you do a force diagram of the mass (trailer load and or tongue weight) the frame and pinning components are under load not the bed.

Jim W.

SmokeyWren 07-18-2014 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw (Post 2143027)
Ram even states in their "RAM BODY BULIDER'S GUIDE" in foot note three and I quote” Payload and maximum trailer weights are mutually exclusive. Additionally, the GAWR’s and the GVWR should never be exceeded.”

That's the key item that usually gets lost in these forums. GVWR should never be exceeded.

Compute max trailer weight per the GCWR (or tow rating which is based on GCWR), and compute max hitch weight per the GVWR (or payload rating, which is based on GVWR). Convert max hitch weight to max trailer weight, then whichever one gives you the least max trailer weight is the limiter. And I'll guarantee you that GVWR is almost always the limiter for tandem-axle RV trailers.

Yeah, some brands have weak rear suspension so that GAWR has to be considered too, but for most pickups loaded for a towing trip the GVWR will be the limiter.

Quote:

SmokeyWren; would you agree that the authors of SAE: J2807 Towing Standard knows what to include and not include in this standard. ...

"The SAE J2807 towing standard outlines dynamic and performance criteria as it relates to a given vehicle. "...

Where in this synopsis is the mention of payload capacity for towing?
It doesn't address payload capacity (GVWR). J2807 addresses only pulling capacity (GCWR). But then the footnote says: "Oh, by the way, you can tow the weight calculated using the J2807 standard only if you don't exceed GVWR while doing it."

Quote:

To me this means that the frame of the truck and suspension of the truck is carrying the load not the pick-up bed of the truck. When you do a force diagram of the mass (trailer load and or tongue weight) the frame and pinning components are under load not the bed
Agree, but that has nothing to do with anything we're discussing. The GVWR considers the frame, suspension, brakes, tires, wheels and axle weight limits, not the weight limits of the bed. The receiver hitch is attached to the frame, not the bed. The 5er hitch is attached to the frame, not the bed. The bolts for some 5er hitches go through the bed, but then they attach to the frame of the truck.

So as I continue to emphasize in these forums, the limiter for max trailer weight for almost all pickups and SUVs with single rear wheels is GVWR, not GCWR.

The purpose of J2807 was to get all manufacturers to use the same standards for computing GCWR, and thus the advertised tow rating. But it doesn't address the same problem we've always had with GCWR. GCWR tells you only how much weight you truck can pull, but not how much hitch weight it can haul. So manufacturer's tow ratings under J2807 will still be inflated because they all assume a tow vehicle with no options and nothing in the truck but a skinny driver.

So your job and mine of trying to explain to newbees how much RV trailer they can tow without being overloaded will still be complicated because J2807 does not address GVWR.

gggplaya 07-18-2014 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw (Post 2143027)
SmokeyWren; would you agree that the authors of SAE: J2807 Towing Standard knows what to include and not include in this standard. Since the authors are vehicle engineers at the various manufacturing plants in the US. At least this was the way when we authored articles and standards for SAE in the heavy equipment industry.

This is a synopsis from the STANDARD which Ram has included in the article for their press release; and I quote

"The SAE J2807 towing standard outlines dynamic and performance criteria as it relates to a given vehicle. Examples within the standard include a number of tests while towing: 0-60 MPH time allowance, tackling the notorious Davis Dam Grade while maintaining no less than 40 MPH for single-rear-wheel trucks and 35 MPH for dual-rear-wheel trucks, a constant radius under steer test while increasing speed and a sway maneuver using aggressive steering input. The purpose is to put all trucks through the schedule of tests in which operators will likely see in the real world. SAE standards have existed in a number of other areas including engine torque and horsepower. Ram Truck is the first to adopt the official towing standard for ½-ton, ¾-ton and 1-ton trucks."

Where in this synopsis is the mention of payload capacity for towing?

Ram even states in their "RAM BODY BULIDER'S GUIDE" in foot note three and I quote” Payload and maximum trailer weights are mutually exclusive. Additionally, the GAWR’s and the GVWR should never be exceeded.”

To me this means that the frame of the truck and suspension of the truck is carrying the load not the pick-up bed of the truck. When you do a force diagram of the mass (trailer load and or tongue weight) the frame and pinning components are under load not the bed.

Jim W.

You're completely missing the point about payload. The ram 1500 has an extra squishy soft rear coil spring suspension. It also happens to be the most comfortable 1/2 pickup in america because of this. However, if you're deciding to load it up with twice it's payload capacity, then you're also going to heavily compress the rear suspension and with that lost much of your weight over the front tires. There goes your handling and steering stability, you'll never tow 9,200lbs like that. Then of course, you also have the components like the rear axle, and various links in the rear suspension that were not sized to accomodate twice the payload rating. You're asking for a breakdown driving down the road. The 2500 has a coil spring rear suspension now too, but it has much larger diameter springs, larger axle, and suspension links. All of which adds weight, but will actually be able to handle the 2000lbs of pin weight. The new 2014 2500's regardless of engine has a 11.5" axle, meanwhile the 1500 has a 9.25".

Those SAE standards don't talk about payload, just towing. That's because of the vast differences in suspension design and performance intent. There's no criteria for sag factor, which drastically changes towing stability. Instead the rating assumes you're not going over the GVWR or GAWR.

Also, those ratings are absolute maximum ratings. Maintaining 40mph???? That shows you how far these ratings go. I would never encourage a person to buy a vehicle that had to struggle to maintain 40mph with their intended application. They are the absolute maximum ratings, people should purchase vehicles well under those ratings.

In any context, a 2000lbs pin weight would put the RAM 1500 significantly over it's GVWR and put all that over the rear axle, putting it significantly outside it's design criteria. You're asking for things to break at that point.

Highway 4x4 07-18-2014 06:32 PM

The only difference between the 2014 2500 and 3500 Ram is the springs.

JIMNLIN 07-18-2014 09:15 PM

Quote:

The 5th wheel is 8870lbs dry, 35'10 & I don't know the pin weight. We're not dead set on this camper but we are looking for something similar.
The Coachman Chaparral 279 BHS shows a 11200 GVWR. The 2500 Ram won't have any issues carrying the trailer pin weight but as highway 4x4 says you won't be happy camper pulling that much weight with the little smallblock 5.7 hemi .

I would look at a 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi which has another 800-1000 lb load capacity above the 5.7 and has tow rating up to 15k-16k lbs depending on truck selections.
The 6.4 Hemi is rated at 410 hp and 430 torque which is close in towing performance to the big block GM 8.1 and Fords V10 gas engines.

Owner on another RV website report fuel milage in the upper teens when running empty with the 6.4 cylinder deactivation system.

Check the 2500 6.4 hemi out.

gggplaya 07-18-2014 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4 (Post 2143776)
The only difference between the 2014 2500 and 3500 Ram is the springs.

No, the new ram 2500 and 3500 rams are drastically different in rear suspension design. The 2500's have a rear coil spring setup, the 3500 has a leafspring arrangement.

2014 Ram Heavy Duty: projections and predictions

jimcumminsw 07-19-2014 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gggplaya (Post 2143235)
You're completely missing the point about payload. The ram 1500 has an extra squishy soft rear coil spring suspension. It also happens to be the most comfortable 1/2 pickup in america because of this. However, if you're deciding to load it up with twice it's payload capacity, then you're also going to heavily compress the rear suspension and with that lost much of your weight over the front tires. There goes your handling and steering stability, you'll never tow 9,200lbs like that. Then of course, you also have the components like the rear axle, and various links in the rear suspension that were not sized to accomodate twice the payload rating. You're asking for a breakdown driving down the road. The 2500 has a coil spring rear suspension now too, but it has much larger diameter springs, larger axle, and suspension links. All of which adds weight, but will actually be able to handle the 2000lbs of pin weight. The new 2014 2500's regardless of engine has a 11.5" axle, meanwhile the 1500 has a 9.25".

Those SAE standards don't talk about payload, just towing. That's because of the vast differences in suspension design and performance intent. There's no criteria for sag factor, which drastically changes towing stability. Instead the rating assumes you're not going over the GVWR or GAWR.

Also, those ratings are absolute maximum ratings. Maintaining 40mph???? That shows you how far these ratings go. I would never encourage a person to buy a vehicle that had to struggle to maintain 40mph with their intended application. They are the absolute maximum ratings, people should purchase vehicles well under those ratings.

In any context, a 2000lbs pin weight would put the RAM 1500 significantly over it's GVWR and put all that over the rear axle, putting it significantly outside it's design criteria. You're asking for things to break at that point.

As I retired hydraulic/structural engineer pay load does not mean anything to me.
What will matter are the GVWR, GARW, tire max loading and the GCVW along with trailer axle weights. When I did a free body diagram of the loading on my 3/4 ton truck diesel; I did insured that the I knew all of the required mass (weight) numbers.
I did this by loading my truck and trailer and scaling them on a certified CAT scale. Nowhere in the free body diagram did payload come in to play. What did was the pin mass and the downward force applied to the hitch and how this mass was supported. I insure that none of these numbers where exceed. And will tow my fiver with easy an has provided excellent service to me and my wife.

Jim W.

Highway 4x4 07-19-2014 12:23 PM

You're right gggplaya, it's the springs. Coil on a 2500 and leaf on a 3500. Also, the front is the same radius arm setup for 2x4 and 4x4. I was a little hesitant on the rear coils but even with the shell camper and stuff, the close to 1000 pound tongue on the TT, it handles it all just fine with a better ride than the leafs.

Mekanic 07-19-2014 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4 (Post 2144739)
You're right gggplaya, it's the springs. Coil on a 2500 and leaf on a 3500. Also, the front is the same radius arm setup for 2x4 and 4x4. I was a little hesitant on the rear coils but even with the shell camper and stuff, the close to 1000 pound tongue on the TT, it handles it all just fine with a better ride than the leafs.

I looked under my coworkers 2014, Ram 2500 and it has that coil spring rear suspension.
it look a lot like the suspension design that is under many Jeeps of the90s and what the wrangler has had on it rear end since 1997. of course all of the components are much sturdier for 3/4 ton truck loads.

I have never seen one But I'd like to see what I heard was a option and that is a Air ride suspension on a later 3/4 ton dodge truck.

fvstringpicker 07-19-2014 07:28 PM

I read a bunch of post about towing capacity before buying my truck. I found out then I wanted a rig where I didn't have to micromanage every pound I considered adding when I hooked up. When it got where you had to consider the true weight driver beyond 150 lbs, a small tool box in the bed and the weight of a tank of gas I thought, "hell with this, I'm going to get something that will do the job without having to worry about this crap" :thumb:

Highway 4x4 07-19-2014 08:52 PM

Good Call Picker. The days pulling whatever you pull will be much better. I like the Ram and I have my reasons but get a 3/4 ton diesel anything and it will pull any bumper tow TT out there.

gggplaya 07-19-2014 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw (Post 2144425)
As I retired hydraulic/structural engineer pay load does not mean anything to me.
What will matter are the GVWR, GARW, tire max loading and the GCVW along with trailer axle weights. When I did a free body diagram of the loading on my 3/4 ton truck diesel; I did insured that the I knew all of the required mass (weight) numbers.
I did this by loading my truck and trailer and scaling them on a certified CAT scale. Nowhere in the free body diagram did payload come in to play. What did was the pin mass and the downward force applied to the hitch and how this mass was supported. I insure that none of these numbers where exceed. And will tow my fiver with easy an has provided excellent service to me and my wife.

Jim W.

I'm an engineer too, and i work in ag equipment design, very large equipment.

You do realize that "PAYLOAD" is your GVWR-CurbWeight+150lbs driver = payload.

Your "Pin Mass" and the downward force applied to the hitch, is simply the "pin weight"?? This is the weight that your vehicle must support, mainly with the rear axle, frame, suspension components, tires etc... You can verify this by driving over some truck scales, they are all split and will tell you how much weight is on the truck, and on the axles of your trailer.

The 1500 ram has a low GVWR, therefore a very low payload rating, 1000-1400lbs depending on configuration. Taking it 10% over the design spec is one thing, but over 2000lbs of pin weight is asking for a breakdown, poor handling, and an accident waiting to happen.

Highway 4x4 07-20-2014 12:05 AM

Anyone towing a 5th with a pin weight of 2000 pounds with any 1/2 ton truck is making a big mistake. I don't care what mods you've done or how you think it will do it, it's just plain overloaded.

Esdharbour22 07-20-2014 06:56 AM

THANK YOU!!! To everyone for their input. It was all very helpful. So we decided against the Ram & ended up buying a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD 6.0 LB. We've narrowed the camper search down to 2 different models. Just gotta wait til Monday for the dealership to open & then it's number time.

fvstringpicker 07-20-2014 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4 (Post 2145608)
I don't care what mods you've done or how you think it will do it, it's just plain overloaded.

I learned early in life to get something you can work with, not work on.

gggplaya 07-21-2014 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esdharbour22 (Post 2145734)
THANK YOU!!! To everyone for their input. It was all very helpful. So we decided against the Ram & ended up buying a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD 6.0 LB. We've narrowed the camper search down to 2 different models. Just gotta wait til Monday for the dealership to open & then it's number time.

That's a good truck, has rear leaf springs still i believe. So payload is nice and high at 3300lbs which should be enough for you and your family.

The 6.0 engine was always designed to be a workhorse, but fuel economy wasn't always the best. However in 2010, they added variable valve timing and various changed to the airflow design in the head. But down on power and torque compared to the 6.4 hemi.

Just curious what the 6.0 gets for mpg these days. Please report back with the mileage.

Esdharbour22 07-23-2014 02:46 PM

We average about 15.4 mpg w/the ac cranked. We're still breaking it in so we're driving it pretty easy. It's an awesome truck even tho i have to climb up in the drivers seat & lift my 3 kids up in their seat lol. This thing is a tank! So far so good!

TDI-Minnie 07-27-2014 07:46 AM

Diesel is the way to go.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:07 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.