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aldera 08-17-2017 09:51 PM

HWH Jack Retraction Problem
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hello,

I bought my first DP about 2 months ago and am heading out on my first trip on Sunday (Michigan to Florida). The front PS jack doesn't want to retract all the way. I was able to eventually retract it using a 2x6. I cleaned and dried all the jack rods while they were extended and then sprayed WD-40 on them. On my trip down there, if I have a problem retracting them at a campground, I want to be as prepared as possible to handle the situation. I read the emergency retraction paper that HWH wrote. My problem is trying to figure out what valves I need to open up to do the emergency retraction. The first picture is the front of the unit and the second picture is the back of the unit. I see the 4 larger valves on the back but there also seems to be 2 smaller valves below the large ones and 2 more smaller valves on the front of the unit. It's hard to reach back there and get a good look at anything. I t looks like the model number on the tank might be AP29578. Not sure about the last digit. My control panel appears to be a 625S series.

Can anyone give me a hand in determining the right valve to open? I can't really delay the trip because my daughter is in the Navy stationed in Jacksonville and will be deploying next month and I need to help her get moved out of her apartment. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

AKIQPilot 08-17-2017 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldera (Post 3758029)
Hello,

I bought my first DP about 2 months ago and am heading out on my first trip on Sunday (Michigan to Florida). The front PS jack doesn't want to retract all the way. I was able to eventually retract it using a 2x6. I cleaned and dried all the jack rods while they were extended and then sprayed WD-40 on them. On my trip down there, if I have a problem retracting them at a campground, I want to be as prepared as possible to handle the situation. I read the emergency retraction paper that HWH wrote. My problem is trying to figure out what valves I need to open up to do the emergency retraction. The first picture is the front of the unit and the second picture is the back of the unit. I see the 4 larger valves on the back but there also seems to be 2 smaller valves below the large ones and 2 more smaller valves on the front of the unit. It's hard to reach back there and get a good look at anything. I t looks like the model number on the tank might be AP29578. Not sure about the last digit. My control panel appears to be a 625S series.

Can anyone give me a hand in determining the right valve to open? I can't really delay the trip because my daughter is in the Navy stationed in Jacksonville and will be deploying next month and I need to help her get moved out of her apartment. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Ok so if you were able to get the cylinder to retract by using a 2x6 then opening the valve on the solenoid isn't likely to help. Many coaches 10 years old and older have slow or nonresponsive jacks when you go to stow them. There could be several reasons for this including bent, damaged or dirty cylinders or it could be something more sinister like the inside of a hose coming apart and plugging up the solenoid.

HWH publishes a jack retraction guideline that tells you how many minutes it might take for the cylinder to retract. The colder the temperature the longer it take to retract. Obviously it's not cold now so the jacks should retract quickly but the HWH guideline will tell you that several minutes is well within their spec. Big Jacks, like on your rig may take up to 7 minutes to retract (above 60*F) and still be within spec. When it's coolder 14 minutes could still be within spec. Here is the HW Jack Retraction Guideline https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml44725.pdf .

One of the things HWH and many dealers will tell you is your springs are worn out and you need the larger updated springs. That may be the case but if you are using lots of pressure on the 2x6 then a little heavier spring may not help at all. If your other 3 jacks are retracting fine with their original spring then your 4th jack should retract fine too unless one of the sprngs is missing or broken.

Wiping the dust and debris off the cylinder is important. Lubricating it like you did is also important. Sometimes lubrication will free a stubborn jack and make them work better and sometimes it won't. From the sounds of it lubricating the cylinder has not helped your jack. You will get lots of feedback telling you that you must use ATF fluid, or you must use silicon spray, or you must WD40, or you must use some other mystery oil. Over the years HWH has recommended a whole list of different fluids to lubricate the shaft so don't get all hung up on what not to use. WD 40 is just fine. The important part is not to leave a whole bunch of lubricant on the shaft to attract dust and dirt that can get carried into the seals.

So my HWH hydraulic system is different than yours so I can't tell you exactly which solenoid is for your RF jack. On both of my coaches there is a T at the top of each jack. One side of the T has the hose coming from the hydraulic power unit. The other side of the T has a cap on it. When I troubleshoot jacks that are retracting slow I immediately go to the T and loosen the cap and see if the jack retracts when the cap is loose. IF the jack begins to retract then the problem is more than likely back at the hydraulic power unit and solenoids. If the jack doesn't come up then it's almost surely the jack. HWH charges between $300 and $400 to completely rebuild a jack. They can't give you an exact quote over the phone because they don't know whats wrong with your jack. Seal kits are available for most HWH jacks for in the $30 range. Just about any decent hydraulic shop can rebuild an HWH jack if you bring them the seals. I think HWH may do a better job and you will get a guarantee from them but it's possible to rebuild the jack yourself in your shop with simple hand tools.

So do a little more trouble shooting and see if the things mentioned above help or indicate the problem is on the jack end or the Hydraulic Power Unit end.

Hope this helps.

vsheetz 08-17-2017 10:43 PM

Having to 'assist' with a lever to retract the last half inch or so is a common problem. Opening valves is not the solution. Cleaning as you did and using WD-40 is proper. New springs may help, but probably not. Jack replacement is in order when it gets to the point that cleaning/wd-40 does not provide relief. Always have a lever with you...

My fronts jacks were replaced a couple years ago. Rears earlier this year.

AKIQPilot 08-17-2017 10:44 PM

Another note. You're leaving within a month and need to be able to count on your jacks not being a show stopper. A few weeks ago I read on the forum that HWH was a few weeks backlogged on jack repairs. Im not sure if that's still the case but you might call before you ship them one of your jacks for service.

To get you by in a pinch and until you have more time you might consider cutting up a 2x6 in about 10" lengths. Maybe have 5 or 6 of them to carry with you. Stack them under this slow jack before you level your coach. Put as many as possible under the foot of the jack. Level your coach like you normally would. When you go to retract, the cylinder will release and the weight of the coach will be lifted off the 2x6 stack. You can knock the boards out of the way and get the 2x6 lever board back under the foot to leverage the jack all the way back up into position.

Just something to get you by in a pinch and make it easier to get your lever under the foot of the jack.

AKIQPilot 08-17-2017 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsheetz (Post 3758092)
Having to 'assist' with a lever to retract the last half inch or so is a common problem. Opening valves is not the solution. Cleaning as you did and using WD-40 is proper. New springs may help, but probably not. Jack replacement is in order when it gets to the point that cleaning/wd-40 does not provide relief. Always have a lever with you...

My fronts jacks were replaced a couple years ago. Rears earlier this year.


Bingo. Good call sheetz. A very common problem. Key take away, have a lever with you. A shovel, board, pry bar. All of those things can work.

Winemaker2 08-18-2017 06:36 AM

I just went through a similar situation on a MH i was selling.
HWH quoted a hi end est to rebuild one of my (smaller) jacks at $300... new replacement ran close to $500 w new switch & wiring adapter & new springs.
If you go for one new you have time to have the old one rebuilt to have a spare available.
Choice depends on willingness to pry the jack and if you have a longer window later on to have it rebuilt.
AZPETE here on the forum works for HWH and has been very willing to help members w troubleshooting and knowledgeable advice.
HWH website has good part # listings but you need to email them to get prices and to place orders. You will get a response same or next day usually. Email better than calling as they will only take a message and call back later or next day any way.

RKins 08-18-2017 10:20 AM

I just stored my jacks this morning and they've been down a month. Usually the passenger front is lazy. I pressed store and unhooked my water hose and power reeled it back up. I then went to the bay that I keep my shovel (first behind the jack) and just before I opened it I looked at the jack and the jack was up all but about an inch. Looked like it was still trying but I don't want to heat up my rebuilt solenoids so I helped it up the last inch. So, sometimes it barely comes up and today, up almost all the way - unpredictable.

azpete 08-18-2017 10:33 AM

yeah, that cylinder needs to be replaced orv rebuilt. if you look at the pump from the motor end, the right solenoid will be right rear, the one next inside will be right front
the next will be left front, the last is right rear.
the harness are marked with a tag about 3 inches from the connector that says lf, lr, rr, rf.
there is a diagram of the jack solenoids in your service manual. im not sure about the operators manual.

Skip426 08-18-2017 10:34 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Information from the manufacturer on jack cleaning and spring replacement if required .
The slow retraction can be temperature related too.

Lineman1 08-18-2017 11:04 AM

hwh
 
Seems to be a common problem with aging coaches judging by your feedback. Good to know as mine sometimes need a helping hand to go that last 1/4 to 1/2 inch. My jacks down light will sometimes come on while motoring , so I try to always drive with the "Stow" button on (light on). This solves the "downwards creep" while on the road.

burfurd 08-18-2017 11:24 AM

I have found that cleaning the jack shaft with WD40 and wiping dry prior to raising will eliminate any slowness in storing the jacks on our Phaeton. If I don't do this, one or more will be slow in storing and will either need to be pried up or else will go up after driving a couple of miles (almost all the way up). :thumb: This is after being down for several weeks or months. :eek:

burfurd

Winemaker2 08-18-2017 03:21 PM

Also clean between the piston (chrome) and the housing. I used a Qtip and WD.40 and usually get lots of dirt & dust.
FYI

Golfr61 08-18-2017 06:01 PM

Ditto. I do this also. I also carry a small bottle jack and only put that one lazy jack down a little because I build it up with 2x6 blocks first. Need to replace it but.... Money is always the issue.

aldera 08-18-2017 07:38 PM

Wow!! Thank you everyone for all the good advice and information. It's great to have a place to come and get the kind of information from folks that "have been there and done that."

I've been out at the campground all day getting the coach ready to roll this Sunday. I did a jack extension and retraction today. 3 of the jacks came up fairly quickly. The FR red light stayed on for about 5-10 minutes but then went out. When I checked the jack, it was mostly retracted but about a 1/2" of the rod was still showing. I tried to pry it up the rest of the way but it didn't budge. I'm hoping that it will hold out for the next 3 weeks or so. If I can find a place in Jacksonville that's not too busy, I may have them replace the unit. I'm also heading to Tiffin on the return trip and may wait until then and have them do it. Fingers crossed!!

Thanks again to each one of you for responding. I feel a lot more prepared to handle the situation, if it should arise.


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