iRV2 Forums

iRV2 Forums (https://www.irv2.com/forums/)
-   Toads and Motorhome Related Towing (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/)
-   -   New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/new-plan-jeep-grand-cherokee-eps-wobble-360864.html)

lass 09-24-2017 08:39 AM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
As many are aware, it took Jeep nearly 2 years to solve the Cherokee front end "Death Wobble" and now the problem has expanded to the current model Grand Cherokee. So if we're looking for a solution, I think that we start sooner rather than later.

The go forward plan is to gain the help of FMCA and to accumulate the necessary information which can be submitted to FCA for action and if you are a current owner of a 2016 / 2017 / 2018 Grand Cherokee, I'm asking the following.

Log Into Jeep.com
Select Contact
Select Email

You will be asked to provide your contact information; VIN #; Message Title; and to list your concerns. within a few minutes, you will receive a "No Response" email with an 8 digit Reference number. This is what we need.

If you are willing to share the information with me, Big_Dog and I will summarize the details and provide it to FMCA National.

The spread sheet will show:
Your 8 digit Reference number
Your avatar
Name - optional
Model year Grand Cherokee
Have you experience the wobble while towing or just concerned that you may.

Should we also list the towing package. i.e. Blue Ox, Roadmaster, etc.

We need to start somewhere and thanks for sharing

Las Kovacs

PeteandDeb 09-25-2017 08:37 AM

Reference 32475337
PeteandDeb
Peter Dahl
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 3145 miles
Experienced death wobble at 1500 miles - usual circumstances - hard right turn with broken pavement. Solved by stopping.
Roadmasterinc brackets and Roadmaster Falcon All Terrain towbar

lass 09-25-2017 08:40 AM

Thanks Pete, this is what we are looking for. I'll add your details to the spread sheet.

gregorys50325 09-25-2017 09:09 AM

I am a little puzzled here so this response will not be what you are looking for.

Some Jeeps have a known 'wobble' problem. Their owners manuals detail the problem and explain its 'fix'. The 'fix' is not installed at the factory on all vehicles since not all vehicles are not towed.

The known 'wobble' problem happens under the same circumstances (listed above).

Jeep has a known fix for the 'wobble' problem which is a $125 part with about 2 hours of labor for installation.

Why does this problem - solution need to be beat up again ???

lass 09-25-2017 09:18 AM

Gregorys50335. You are correct that there is a known problem and fix for the smaller Jeep Cherokee, but we are now seeing the same wobble in the larger Grand Cherokee. Jeep does not have a solution for the GC and have not acknowledged the issue.

Just want to bring attention to this.

mhudson 09-25-2017 11:04 AM

Reference # 32474504
mhudson
Mike Hudson (Francis Hudson to FCA)
2016 Grand Cherokee summit 21900mi.

Death wobble on 10-01-16 with less than 20 towed miles. Had vehicle for less than a month, first time towing had wobble about 20 miles into trip. Hard left turn uphill. Less than 2000 miles on Jeep. Dealer response "no problem found".

Twice again on 4-16-17. Normal left turn with flat pavement both times. Dealer response "Checked and reset tire pressure and front end alignment". Non warranty, normal wear. (Probably from having the front end violently shaken!)

Again 9-11-17. Normal right turn. Dealer appointment on 9-29-17. I think I know what the outcome will be, just documenting.

Roadmaster Sterling towbar.
Roadmaster Blackhawk towbar.
Has happened with both towbars.
Roadmaster baseplate
Level within less than an inch.

Big Boy has my VIN number in a private msg.

lass 09-25-2017 11:21 AM

Thanks Mike, since you had to submit the VIN in order to get the Ref. #, we are not going use the Vin in communication.

Las

rpasetto 09-25-2017 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregorys50325 (Post 3820768)
I am a little puzzled here so this response will not be what you are looking for.
Some Jeeps have a known 'wobble' problem. Their owners manuals detail the problem and explain its 'fix'. The 'fix' is not installed at the factory on all vehicles since not all vehicles are not towed.
The known 'wobble' problem happens under the same circumstances (listed above).
Jeep has a known fix for the 'wobble' problem which is a $125 part with about 2 hours of labor for installation.
Why does this problem - solution need to be beat up again ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 3820788)
Gregorys50335. You are correct that there is a known problem and fix for the smaller Jeep Cherokee, but we are now seeing the same wobble in the larger Grand Cherokee. Jeep does not have a solution for the GC and have not acknowledged the issue.
Just want to bring attention to this.

A few points should be made here:
(1) Knowing how closely the 2016+ GC EPS system is to that of the KL Cherokee will substantially affect the solution.
(2) If the GC's EPS is of the same design, an adaptation of the Cherokee harness design may be possible, and fairly quick. It's highly doubtful that the same harness would work.
(3) If the GC' steering and suspension design are significantly different then the solution will be likewise... and slower to implement.

It's good that the help of FMCA is being sought, reports to NHTSA would also help. Read through the Cherokee forums and see the missteps and disinformation which delayed identification of the true cause. Perhaps that will help you all get to the bottom of this quicker. Make no mistake, this "wobble event" can be disastrous; please be careful.

[If it can be found out whether the EPS design in the Grand Cherokee also uses the patented (Active shimmy mitigation algorithm) then it's pretty clear it's the same problem over again. This was a patent filed in 2010 by Chrysler Group LLC. Many at FCA engineering know about it and surely many in the Jeep division know if this algorithm is used in the EPS computer pof the 2016+ GC.]

lass 09-25-2017 12:17 PM

Rick. Thanks for the insight from the technical side of the EPS and I can honestly say that I do not know what the design is. We're just trying to get members to log a complaint and get a reference number which can be forwarded to FMCA for action. Thanks

rpasetto 09-25-2017 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 3821067)
Rick. Thanks for the insight from the technical side of the EPS and I can honestly say that I do not know what the design is. We're just trying to get members to log a complaint and get a reference number which can be forwarded to FMCA for action. Thanks

Don't want you all to have to go thru what we Cherokee owners did, especially if Jeep already knows what's wrong. (And I almost bought a GC myself recently)

Ol_Opa 09-25-2017 12:42 PM

My Tuppence Worth...
 
Las,
I've had the wobble about 6 times in 4200 miles. My GC is a hemi powered '17 TrailHawk. The typical scenario is similar to others: Sharp left turn from a dead stop, roll over some minor pavement dip or hump (once over a railroad crossing) then immediately after straightening out the wobble starts and the only way to stop it is come to a full stop, then start off again.

My tow set up is: Demco Dominator tow bar, Blue Ox baseplate, Air Force 1. Towing with '14 Allegro Bus 45LP.

FCA Ref No.: 32478077

OakHillFarm 09-25-2017 02:39 PM

We do own a 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland, but as of yet have not towed it. The main reason is that I saw the other thread on here about a death wobble issue beginning to show its head. I will be watching this with great interest. Fortunately (actually unfortunately) for us it is near the end of our RV season. Hope a solution is found before next spring.

lass 09-26-2017 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OakHillFarm (Post 3821258)
We do own a 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland, but as of yet have not towed it. The main reason is that I saw the other thread on here about a death wobble issue beginning to show its head. I will be watching this with great interest. Fortunately (actually unfortunately) for us it is near the end of our RV season. Hope a solution is found before next spring.



I'm in the same position as you are and having traded a perfectly good Honda CRV for the GC Summit, I feel that Jeep owes me a solution to this wobble problem. I explained this on Jeep.com and asked if they recommend that I not tow the vehicle. Also asked them if I made $50K ++ mistake. Still waiting for their response.

I feel a need to be proactive with this and ask for your help in securing a case reference number.

Thanks Las.

hdridermlb 09-26-2017 11:23 AM

A few days after we bought our 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland November 2016, I was looking in the engine compartment and noticed no hydraulic steering pump and thought OH NO! We have the V6.

So I called Jeep and was assigned a case number and was sent an email assuring me that even though the Grand Cherokee had electric steering as of the 2016 model, there would not be the same wobble issues as the Cherokee. I have that email. Case Number 30485487

I didn't install tow brackets until March, 2017.

April 2017, I experienced the death wobble making hard left turn from dead stop at an intersection that has dips in the roadway.

May 4, 2017 I took it to the dealer and they said they have no way of testing for this and the problem didn't exist. They would not write up a service order until I demanded to talk to service manager and he reluctantly wrote up a work order which is on file. It seemed like he was annoyed with me demanding this be documented.

September 24 2017 I called Jeep customer care and complained that it was still happening. I was assigned a case manager. I have to take it back to the dealer again in a few weeks and I expect the same result. The case manager assured me that if that happens, there will be a technical team that will contact me.

I got a call from my case manager to introduce herself. I explained to her going to the dealer was a waste of time and I had her look online at my previous visit to dealer and she said I have to go back to the dealer to kick off this process so that it will be elevated within Jeep. I mentioned the issue with the Cherokee while being towed and she was not aware of that issue and said her focus is on getting resolution to my problem.

The wobble has only happened from a dead stop and making a hard left or right turn and roadway is uneven. Never have a problem if it's a "sweeping " left or right turn on uneven roadway. Never a problem at speed in construction zones where there are quick lane shifts and uneven roadways where we go up and then down.

Roadmaster EZ4 tow bracket and roadmaster Blackhawk 2 10,000 pound tow bar. Perfectly level with Jeep at normal ride height position. I have QuadraLift.

To be continued...

rpasetto 09-26-2017 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdridermlb (Post 3822714)
A few days after we bought our 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland November 2016, I was looking in the engine compartment and noticed no hydraulic steering pump and thought OH NO!

So I called Jeep and was assigned a case number and was sent an email assuring me that even though the Grand Cherokee had electric steering as of the 2016 model, there would not be the same wobble issues as the Cherokee. I have that email.

I didn't install tow brackets until March, 2017.

April 2017, I experienced the death wobble making hard left turn from dead stop at an intersection that has dips in the roadway.

May 4, 2017 I took it to the dealer and they said they have no way of testing for this and the problem didn't exist. They would not write up a service order until I demanded to talk to service manager and he reluctantly wrote up a work order which is on file. It seemed like he was annoyed with me demanding this be documented.

September 24 2017 I called Jeep customer care and complained that it was still happening. I was assigned a case manager. I have to take it back to the dealer again in a few weeks and I expect the same result. The case manager assured me that if that happens, there will be a technical team that will contact me.

I got a call from my case manager to introduce herself. I explained to her going to the dealer was a waste of time and I had her look online at my previous visit to dealer and she said I have to go back to the dealer to kick off this process so that it will be elevated within Jeep. I mentioned the issue with the Cherokee while being towed and she was not aware of that issue and said her focus is on getting resolution to my problem.

The wobble has only happened from a dead stop and making a hard left or right turn and roadway is uneven. Never have a problem if it's a "sweeping " left or right turn on uneven roadway. Never a problem at speed in construction zones where there are quick lane shifts and uneven roadways where we go up and then down.

To be continued...

You may want to look over the many threads on this incl. the ones on the Cherokee forums (such as this one: Severe shaking problem towing behind motorhome - 2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums). Pay particular attention to post #73 which refers to a patent for "Active shimmy mitigation" which FCA-Jeep applied for in 2010!

Before the time of that post (around Nov 2015) there was a lot of speculation about wheel alignment, balance, towbars, baseplates etc with the idea that a list with the idea that analyzing it could point to a solution. A month after the post, the OP told us all that Jeep told him a solution was forthcoming soon. Meanwhile many who had reported many hundfreds of miles 'wobble-free' were reporting that they had it the first time, some even realized that the event had happened to them earlier but they did not know what it was.

Since you are accustomed to looking under the hood, see if there are servo motors mounted on the steering system; if so this is a big hint that that it's the same a problem. This can be dangerous situation so please be cautious.

lass 09-26-2017 12:05 PM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
Good news folks!! FMCA is on board and will solicit a resolution from FCA-Jeep with us.

Late yesterday I received a call from John Johnston (fmca) and he likes our 2 step approach by filing a complaint directly with Jeep and accumulating the case reference numbers.

Also yesterday, I sent over 20 PM's to members who had Jeep GC in the signature but so far have received only 3 ref numbers. I'll wait a couple more days and send follow up PM's to those who did not respond.

We need a minimum of 10 members to share the #'s.

Las

Big_Boy 09-26-2017 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 3822758)
Good news folks!! FMCA is on board and will solicit a resolution from FCA-Jeep with us.

Late yesterday I received a call from John Johnston (fmca) and he likes our 2 step approach by filing a complaint directly with Jeep and accumulating the case reference numbers.

Also yesterday, I sent over 20 PM's to members who had Jeep GC in the signature but so far have received only 3 ref numbers. I'll wait a couple more days and send follow up PM's to those who did not respond.

We need a minimum of 10 members to share the #'s.

Las

Las,

Thank you very much for taking the bull by the horns on this issue. Knowing about FMCA's involvement in the Cherokee resolution will save us all a lot of time.

I'm in a quandary about filing a complaint when I only have an imagined future problem. I bought our '16 Summit with the intent of replacing our '11 Honda CR-V. On paper, the Jeep GC Summit EcoDiesel seemed to bridge the near impossible for us: Capable of being a 'toad' but still capable of towing 7,300 lb itself. Only a pickup truck could match this capability range.

This reported problem (and knowing about the Cherokee debacle) has kept me from spending the money and time to move my tow hardware over to the Jeep. But, I own (and pay insurance on) two cars where my objective was to reduce my 'fleet' by one Honda. When I get back from my next big road trip (leaving tomorrow), I'll go ahead and make the plunge.

If FCA gives us the run-around, I'll have to change out the 'toad' again. That Ford F-150 (especially if they get a diesel) is starting to look better...

Big Boy

DrDaveMA 09-26-2017 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 3822758)
Good news folks!! FMCA is on board and will solicit a resolution from FCA-Jeep with us.

Late yesterday I received a call from John Johnston (fmca) and he likes our 2 step approach by filing a complaint directly with Jeep and accumulating the case reference numbers.

Also yesterday, I sent over 20 PM's to members who had Jeep GC in the signature but so far have received only 3 ref numbers. I'll wait a couple more days and send follow up PM's to those who did not respond.

We need a minimum of 10 members to share the #'s.

Las



Lass, got you PM today. I have a '16 GC Limited. I have towed it almost 10,000 miles (once for Cape Cod to LA and return Jan -Mar this year and we just returned from a trip to Newfoundland towing the GC, plus numerous short trips), no issues.

A couple more points of data I think you need to add to your spreadsheet.

Model GC including engine
Is it lifted or modified in any other way
Is there a charge line from the coach
Make and model of the tow bar
Make and model of brake system

I followed the Cherokee death wobble issue since I was aware that the culprit was the EPS, the same (I believe) EPS that is on the GC, so I was concerned it was in fact the root cause. I do not think everyone thought the solution was the true root cause. From what I have heard/read there are some Cherokees that have received the modification and still experience the death wobble, I suspect the root cause has not been identified.

D Moffitt 09-27-2017 05:20 PM

Count me as another Grand Cherokee owner who, after more than 10,000 miles of towing, has yet to experience any wobble on my 2016 GC Limited with an Ecodiesel and the Off-Road adventure II package.
I ordered this vehicle last summer (one of the last Ecodiesels produced) to replace a nearly identical 2014 GC that had suffered massive hail damage. At the time I was aware of the power steering change and was somewhat concerned due to the history of the regular Cherokee. I decided to just see what might happen, confident that if it became a serious problem, FCA would come up with a suitable solution. With over 32,000 miles (added to the 40,000+ miles I had on my 2014 when I traded) this vehicle has met all my needs. It's comfortable, capable of handling backroads with little drama, powerful and economical.
I'm not denying that others have had the wobble. I'm just curious as to why it's not been a problem for me. For the record, I have a Blue-Ox Avail tow bar, which has longer arms. Given the wide spacing on the GC attachment points, could the longer arms help reduce the chance of a wobble? (pure speculation on my part.) Could the fact that I also approach very tight turns at a very slow speed and try to make my turns as wide as possible make a difference? I don't know.
Hopefully, efforts by those who have had the problem to find a solution will be effective. IMHO, the GC is too nice a vehicle not to be a able to flat tow with confidence.

lass 09-27-2017 07:28 PM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
D Moffitt

Thanks for the information. I'll add your Blue Ox details to the spread sheet and send it to fmca.

To be, fair, I'm including owners who have not had a problem.

My biggest concern is what happens when I go over some railroad tracks at 30 mph.

rpasetto 09-28-2017 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Boy (Post 3823221)
... That Ford F-150 (especially if they get a diesel) is starting to look better...
Big Boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDaveMA (Post 3823450)
... From what I have heard/read there are some Cherokees that have received the modification and still experience the death wobble, I suspect the root cause has not been identified.

The F150 as of 2011 has EPS. (Electric power assist steering on new F-150 - SAE International).

Having followed the Jeep KL Cherokee issue since it's inception, I've seen all the talk about baseplates, towbars, angles, wheel alignment, balance etc.... yet it ultimately boiled down to someone discovering that FCA had known since 2010 that there was an inherent wobble tendency in their All-Electric EPS design. That is, this type of EPS uses electric motors provide the assist to the steering rack. The other type of EPS, Hydraulic-Electric, has an electric pump providing fluid pressure to an hydraulically operated rack-and-pinion; it's sometimes called hydraulic-over-electric EPS.

During the early days of KL Cherokee wobble reports, some felt that the tendency to wobble was exacerbated by absence of any hydraulics in a steering-suspension design that may already be prone to wobble. The wobble events of 2016+ WK2 Grand Cherokees after a change from Electric-Hydraulic to All-Electric seems to support this theory. (the addition of an hydraulic steering stabilizer to the KL was suggested and we learned that there's just no room to add one).

@DrDaveMA: I have heard/read of several Cherokees which have had the wobble-wiring kit installed incorrectly, but not of any Cherokees with properly installed kit continuing to have the problem. Specifics of such reports would be helpful.

DrDaveMA 09-28-2017 10:14 AM

Lass, opened up a report with FCA this morning, ref: 32500862. Grand Cherokee Limited, V6, 10,750 miles, no lift or other mods (except to tow). Roadmaster EZ4 tow brackets, Sterling Tow Bar, Tow Defender, Quiet Hitch, SMI Stay-In-Play Duo, Toad Charge. Thus far have towed about 10,000 miles with no problems.

DrDaveMA 09-28-2017 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpasetto (Post 3825364)

@DrDaveMA: I have heard/read of several Cherokees which have had the wobble-wiring kit installed incorrectly, but not of any Cherokees with properly installed kit continuing to have the problem. Specifics of such reports would be helpful.



Please review the multiple threads dealing with the Cherokee Death Wobble, several people state they had the death wobble occur AFTER the mod was completed, as well as folks that just were no longer responding so you can not determine if they are fixed or just gave up. Unfortunately the ones that had a reoccurrence after the mod was installed, we cannot determine if they were properly installed.

opbart1 09-28-2017 10:36 AM

I am one that has a 2014 Cherokee that has experienced the wobble after the fix. Will see if dealer will check to confirm the installation. Fortunately only slow speed incidences on last trip! May be a while but will report back when I can.

rpasetto 09-28-2017 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opbart1 (Post 3825816)
I am one that has a 2014 Cherokee that has experienced the wobble after the fix. Will see if dealer will check to confirm the installation. Fortunately only slow speed incidences on last trip! May be a while but will report back when I can.

Here's a check you can make to determine if the wiring kit is actually activating the EPS. First, with engine off and the Cherokee parked, verify that the steering wheel is tight and not easy to move. Now go thru the procedure specified in the kit with switch and fuse (make sure it's not blown) and activate the EPS as if you were about to tow it. After a short delay you should notice the power steering assist is there and it's as easy to turn the wheel while stopped as it would be when the engine is running. If you do not notice that assist the kit is either defective or not properly installed.

opbart1 09-28-2017 11:17 AM

Well I checked as rpasetto advised ( thanks by the way ) and I found no difference in steering with or without the fuse and switch set. Looks like I have a bad install!

rpasetto 09-28-2017 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opbart1 (Post 3825883)
Well I checked as rpasetto advised ( thanks by the way ) and I found no difference in steering with or without the fuse and switch set. Looks like I have a bad install!

You are welcome. Many dealers are not familiar with towing vehicles behind motorhomes, may not realize what the "kit" is supposed to do.

Sorry to 'hijack' this Grand Cherokee thread with these posts but if the GC fix is a similar wiring harness one you all will have the same thing.

lass 09-28-2017 02:11 PM

As of today, I have received input and Case Reference numbers from:
lass (me); mhudson; Ol Opa; PeteandDeb; hdridermlb; rewillia; rstano; & DrDaveMA. Thank you!!!

Sent a second set of PM's to members who had previously identified a wobble situation while towing but have not responded : 13charlie; Barmats; bd041556; Bpoland; Crabby Mike; FlyCMA; & jlr44

I am also keeping a log of members who responded that they have not experienced the wobble but are concerned that they may in the future.

We need to get to minimum of 10, so if you know any of the members who have not responded, try to contact them.

Las

hdridermlb 09-29-2017 07:16 AM

Just a thought....

I think the QuadraLift needs to be noted on the spreadsheet. To the best of my knowledge Overland and Summit the QuadraLift is standard. For the Limited it's an option.

My observation is QuadraLift is active even with the key off. Just loading or unloading something in the car can cause the compressor to engage.

BPoland 09-29-2017 07:47 AM

Reference 32507520
BPoland
Bill Poland 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 16,285 miles
Experienced death wobble 2 times at 14,300 miles - usual circumstances - hard left turn with broken pavement. Stopped. Restarted, and problem went away. Both times had similar circumstances.
Blue Ox Baseplate, Aventa LX 10,000 towbar. All connect points are tight, and towbar is +/- 1" from level.

lass 09-29-2017 07:55 AM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
Thanks Bill. Your information has been logged.

I read your previous post about hitting the brakes the next time it happens. That will be interesting.

Aspectrv 09-29-2017 09:43 AM

I have the same trailhawk, and demco dominator tow bar. I order the fix from jeep for 125.00. I had a difficult time at the dealership finding anybody that knew anything about it. It was the largest dealer in Eastern Iowa. The senior mechanic that installed it had never installed one. Other than having to pull the fuse every time when put back into use, it has worked perfectly. 1000 plus miles, no wobble.

mhudson 09-29-2017 10:24 AM

Well this is what I got from Jeep Care for a fix this morning.

"Thank you for contacting the Jeep Customer Assistance Center.

I understand your frustration here. I must be very frustrating being unable to identify the issue with the vehicle while flat towing behind your motor home. Having dealt with this issue in the past for other customers I can state you are not alone in these feelings. However the issue itself is actually not with the jeep. The issue is that when flat towing some brake controllers do not have the required power to effectively allow the jeep to be towed correctly and not experience a wandering effect behind the vehicle towing them. In recognition of this Jeep has released an amendment to the Manual that came with the vehicle.

Please see:
"If the customer is experiencing vehicle shake while recreationally towing, a Mopar Accessory kit (68321424AB) is available to improve the flat tow towing behavior. Owners may contact their local dealer for purchase and installation."

This Mopar kit was designed to improve the flat towing capability of the vehicle when using a brake controller that may not be supplying enough power to correctly assist the Jeeps braking system. Having this system installed should prevent the described issue while flat towing behind your motor home.

Thank you again for your email. "

I just picked up the key and left the dealership without them doing anything. I probable made an (donkey) of myself, but the email came in while I was there waiting. I'm about ready to trade it and take a beating.

I guess if you drag the brakes when starting off from a dead stop it will eliminate the wobble! I'm not an automotive engineer but somehow I think they are on the wrong track. (I don't even know if they know what model I have)

lass 09-29-2017 10:57 AM

Mike the information that you were given doesn't reference the Grand Cherokee, so I did a quick google search for that wiring harness 68321424ab and it is described for the Cherokee.

If we look at the actual bulletin, it specifically states for the KL Cherokee.

Im going continue pursuing this with FMCA.


THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES SERVICE BULLETIN 08-029-16, DATED MARCH 17, 2016, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE UPDATED VEHICLE INFORMATION AND REMOVAL OF VEHICLE BUILD DATE.
SUBJECT:
Accessory Kit to Enhance Flat Tow Performance
MODELS:
2014 - 2016 (KL) Jeep Cherokee
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles within the following markets: NAFTA.
NOTE: **This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with 4x4 (Sales Code 5I4) and with Jeep Active Drive II (Sales Code DK4).**
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may describe that their vehicle shakes or bounces while being flat towed.
DISCUSSION:
If the customer describes the symptom/condition listed above, a Mopar Accessory kit is available to improve flat tow towing behavior. Ensure that all instructions included in the kit (#K6862569), are followed during the install process.
PARTS REQUIRED:
POLICY:
Information Only
This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, or otherwise, without written permission of FCA US LLC.

Qty.
Part No.
Description
1
68321424AB
Wiring Kit - Recreational Flat Tow
https://www.wk2jeeps.com/Misc/Cheroke...08_029_16a.pdf

mhudson 09-29-2017 03:36 PM

Las, I know the kit referenced is for the Cherokee. I guess I'm being sarcastic about it. The folks that are going to explain to the dealer how to repair my Jeep can't even decipher the difference between a Cherokee and a Grand Cherokee VIN number. Then go off on some crazy story about how its not Jeeps problem but a brake controller issue that the harness corrects. The harness kit referenced has nothing to do with brakes but for steering.

All this after I have explained that it starts from a dead stop with a turn. Nothing to do with braking.

I guess I've gotten to the point that I'm tired of the BS stories I've been getting from the dealer and FCA for a year. When this first started I could not find anyone else that it had happened to. I have replaced towbar, baseplates and brake system thinking it must be some combination of circumstances that was happening just with me. When I started to hear of other folks having the problem it made me feel better that at least I wasn't crazy or doing something wrong. After the response this morning I guess I have had enough. I'm tired of dumping money into a mistake that I made and not sure that FCA could make me happy no matter what they do. I love the Jeep as a daily driver. I have put as of today 23000+ miles on it in a year and that's with me not being able to drive several months due to surgery. Must like it to drive it twice as much as my other vehicle.
Anyway sorry for the rant, just been a bad day.
Mike

lass 09-29-2017 03:44 PM

Mike The forum is a good place to let off some steam and I hope that it made you feel better. I've had my Summit for 6 weeks now and will do everything I can to get this to FMCA and a resolution from FCA. They aren't off the hook yet.

Have your favorite beverage and sit back for a while.

I got this.

Big_Boy 09-29-2017 07:35 PM

I finally contacted FCA about my concern, even though we still have not pulled our Summit.

Here are the particulars:

Reference number: 32513587
Year / Model: 2016 Grand Cherokee Summit EcoDiesel
Avatar: Big-Boy
Mileage on Summit: 34610
Tires: Michelin Defender 265/50-20 (new at 33000 miles)
Towing Hardware (when installed): Blue Ox Aventa LX
Auxiliary Braking System: Air Force One (air actuated).

No issues to report. See following.

We have not towed this vehicle yet. We are concerned about all of the reports of 'wobble' when low speed sharp turns are followed by a disturbance (bump/ridge in the road). We need to move tow hardware from our 2011 CR-V and sell the Honda. We need a solution from FCA.

We will tow this at 'normal' height with "Entry/Exit" mode disabled. I will take whatever action necessary to make sure the tow bar runs level (+/-1").

rpasetto 09-30-2017 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3827358)
Well this is what I got from Jeep Care for a fix this morning.

"Thank you for contacting the Jeep Customer Assistance Center.

I understand your frustration here. I must be very frustrating being unable to identify the issue with the vehicle while flat towing behind your motor home. Having dealt with this issue in the past for other customers I can state you are not alone in these feelings. However the issue itself is actually not with the jeep. The issue is that when flat towing some brake controllers do not have the required power to effectively allow the jeep to be towed correctly and not experience a wandering effect behind the vehicle towing them. In recognition of this Jeep has released an amendment to the Manual that came with the vehicle.

Please see:
"If the customer is experiencing vehicle shake while recreationally towing, a Mopar Accessory kit (68321424AB) is available to improve the flat tow towing behavior. Owners may contact their local dealer for purchase and installation."

This Mopar kit was designed to improve the flat towing capability of the vehicle when using a brake controller that may not be supplying enough power to correctly assist the Jeeps braking system. Having this system installed should prevent the described issue while flat towing behind your motor home.

Thank you again for your email. "

I just picked up the key and left the dealership without them doing anything. I probable made an (donkey) of myself, but the email came in while I was there waiting. I'm about ready to trade it and take a beating.

I guess if you drag the brakes when starting off from a dead stop it will eliminate the wobble! I'm not an automotive engineer but somehow I think they are on the wrong track. (I don't even know if they know what model I have)

For the "WK2" Grand Cherokees experiencing the wobble issue, there is yet no fix .... which is what this thread is all about.

The wobble-while-towing issue with the "KL" Cherokee has a fix, a wiring harness which activates the necessary systems to prevent wobble. The wobble issue has absolutely nothing to do with "some brake controllers".

FCA-Chrysler-Jeep should know better than to make a statement like this.

They sought a patent, back in 2010, for the software for "vibration mitigation" for the EPS systems in their Chrysler 200 and other cars, which later was incorporated into the Cherokee. The Cherokee was rolled out in 2014 , advertised as "the ideal towed vehicle" by the way. Soon, motor-homers towing the KL reported wobble while towing. Sometime in 2015-2016 the wiring "kit",Mopar Accessory kit (68321424AB), which allows one to turn the EPS ON while towing with engine off. It was made available, at no cost to owners ... at first.

Members of this forum owning Grand Cherokees are now trying to get a fix for their problems, which may have the same root cause and hopefully a similar solution.

FlyCMA 10-01-2017 08:06 PM

Case #: 32384880
FLYCMA
John Buxbaum
2017 Grand Cherokee Summit, 9250 miles
Experienced severe wobble 4x, always after complete stop and normal turn

lass 10-02-2017 11:40 AM

The final tally for the Jeep Grand Cherokee case Reference numbers are as follows:

Received 11 Reference numbers:
**8 owners who had experience the "wobble" while towing behind their RV.
**3 owners not towing but are concerned with potential damage / liability.

I have also copied posts from 6 members who have not responded to my PM"s but have experienced the "wobble" while towing.

If Jeep follows the same process as they did with the KL Cherokee and contact owners directly, they will be a able to use the Case Reference No. for information about your VIN; email; and phone number.

I thought about posting the spreadsheet in the forum, but not sure if it would be prudent, so if any of the 11 owners would like to receive a copy, send me an email request. Not a PM. That will not allow me to attached a document.

So based on what we have, I will be in contact with John Johnston at FMCA and go forward and secure a solution.

Las

mhudson 10-03-2017 01:21 PM

As of today we are attempting to install the wiring harness kit for the Cherokee on our Grand Cherokee.

After going back and forth with James with Jeep customer assistance center the wiring harness is the same. I'll know shortly. He has assured me that the harness will work on either vehicle. I have my mechanic working on it now.
We looked at the way the harness works and if the computer harness is the same it should be a drop in.
Mike

lass 10-03-2017 01:28 PM

Thanks mike. Good to know.

Now the question is how are you going to test it? Are you using the information from rpasetto in post #25?

mhudson 10-03-2017 01:45 PM

Yes. If the computer harness is the same we’ll install, read and clear the codes per the instructions then place the Jeep in tow mode and check the steering. If it works like rpasetto described I’m going to tow it next week for a 1200 mile trip we have planned.

rpasetto 10-03-2017 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3833815)
As of today we are attempting to install the wiring harness kit for the Cherokee on our Grand Cherokee.
After going back and forth with James with Jeep customer assistance center the wiring harness is the same. I'll know shortly. He has assured me that the harness will work on either vehicle. I have my mechanic working on it now.
We looked at the way the harness works and if the computer harness is the same it should be a drop in.
Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 3833824)
Thanks mike. Good to know.
Now the question is how are you going to test it? Are you using the information from rpasetto in post #25?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3833855)
Yes. If the computer harness is the same we’ll install, read and clear the codes per the instructions then place the Jeep in tow mode and check the steering. If it works like rpasetto described I’m going to tow it next week for a 1200 mile trip we have planned.

Wow! I'd suggest you have the dealer check with someone at Jeep-FCA to make sure the procedures and connections for installation are in fact the same. The Cherokee differs from the Grand Cherokee quite a lot, including engine and trans. Some things to note which I've learned from many knowledgeable people on the Cherokee forums:
  1. The Cherokee kit consists of some wiring along with a switch (DPST) and a fuse.
  2. The purpose of the fuse is to provide power to the EPS system while the engine is off. (some Cherokee owners have added a switch or relay to avoid having to insert and pull this fuse).
  3. The purpose of the switch is to completely isolate the EPS circuits, computer, etc from the CAN bus. The CAN (Controller Area Network) bus connects the EPS computer with computers which control engine, transmission, air bags, cruise control, and in some cars: electric park brake, collision avoidance, park assist etc. These computers and the software which runs on them are likely different between Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. If the EPS is not properly isolated from other systems, which are off with engine not running, error codes can show up ... or the system may not work as it is supposed to or ... "unpredictable results" can occur.
If this EPS system "cutoff" is not wired in to the bus correctly, something might be damaged. Only Jeep-FCA engineering personnel has intimate knowledge of how the CAN bus circuitry works and how the software on all these different computers on the CAN bus work. Thus they are the ultimate source of info on how the "harness" wiring is to be inserted.

Best of luck with this... once you get the car back with the wiring harness installed try the steps I outlined in an earlier post.

lass 10-03-2017 04:01 PM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
At least we have 3 things going for us.

Mike is installing the Cherokee harness and we'll see if it works.

The spreadsheet has been sent to FMCA and will be forwarded to FCA.

I called my service manager and she agreed to send the spreadsheet directly to her engineering contacts at Jeep.

Hay I think that we're pushing all of the right buttons so let's stay tuned.

mhudson 10-03-2017 06:44 PM

The harness is a two part install. The under the hood part is straightforward. The main power for the EPS is switched on by a relay when the fuse is inserted to tow. The inside part to the CAN buss is what we’re hoping is the same. There is a small harness from the computer to the EPS that is unplugged from the computer and the switch installed in series so it can be switched on and off. When tow mode is needed you wait for the computer to go to sleep. Then switch the buss switch off inside. Then insert the fuse outside to power the EPS circuit up. (Yes, that needs an interior switch wired in series after the fuse).

Jeep FCA is who has been communicating with me about this. I specifically asked to make sure they realized I was dealing with a Grand Cherokee and not a Cherokee. Actually I asked twice!
Hopefully I’ll know tomorrow morning.

rpasetto 10-04-2017 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3834387)
The harness is a two part install. The under the hood part is straightforward. The main power for the EPS is switched on by a relay when the fuse is inserted to tow. The inside part to the CAN buss is what we’re hoping is the same. There is a small harness from the computer to the EPS that is unplugged from the computer and the switch installed in series so it can be switched on and off. When tow mode is needed you wait for the computer to go to sleep. Then switch the buss switch off inside. Then insert the fuse outside to power the EPS circuit up. (Yes, that needs an interior switch wired in series after the fuse).

Jeep FCA is who has been communicating with me about this. I specifically asked to make sure they realized I was dealing with a Grand Cherokee and not a Cherokee. Actually I asked twice!
Hopefully I’ll know tomorrow morning.

It looks like you' re on the right track. The sequence to follow with disconnecting CAN bus first and then activating EPS is important. Test it a few times to make sure the procedure does activate the EPS, and be sure the check-engine light doesn't go on. If the service guy will hook up a code reader to the diagnostic connector , he can check for any bus errors after the test.

Hoping everything works out OK....

mhudson 10-04-2017 11:06 AM

Well as I feared James with Jeep doesn't know what he's talking about.
The harness is not compatible with the Grand Cherokee.

This is my reply to his first email, I probably should have waited before replying.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
James,
I am beyond frustrated.

We purchased this Jeep in September of 2016. I was fully aware of the flat tow issues with the Cherokee (model KL.
We were assured by the selling dealership the 2016 Grand Cherokee (model WK2) was flat towable as purchased.

I had Roadmaster baseplates installed and we towed the Jeep the first time in October of 2016. Within 20 miles of the beginning of our trip we experienced the front end wobble, upon acceleration, nothing to do with braking.

We towed the remainder of that trip with no re occurrence of the wobble issue. Returned home and I took the Jeep to our selling dealership (Quality in Greenwood SC) where they could find nothing wrong. Of course the Jeep drove and handled perfectly if it was not being towed. The dealership cannot ride around with me while I'm towing for possibly a couple of thousand miles until it does it again.

I had major surgery last fall and was not able to drive the motorhome until spring of this year. Last winter while I was recuperating I researched the problem. I could find no one else having this problem. I considered it such a serious problem that I purchased another type baseplate, towbar and braking system and had installed on the Jeep. Just to make sure that it was not something that was unique to my situation.

On Easter weekend of this year we towed the Jeep to Charleston SC for the weekend. The trip there was fine. The return trip home we experienced the wobble issue twice. On Monday we took the Jeep to the dealership again. They opened a "Star"(?) case with FCA. Recommended front end alignment and tire pressure check. The front end was probable out of alignment due to being violently shaken the 3 times that this has happened. The motorhome weight is 36500 pounds. The 5000 pound Jeep jerks the rear of the 36K# motorhome so violently that it will spill a cup of coffee 40 feet forward of the hitch. It's that bad. The only way to stop the wobble is to come to a complete stop. After that its fine. Until the next time. Whenever that may be.

In June I towed the Jeep to the Spartan Chassis factory in Michigan and back (1600 miles) with no issues. Numerous short trips close to home during the summer. No issues other than wondering if today's the day. . In September I towed the Jeep to the Cummins shop in Spartanburg SC (50 miles) and the front end wobbled once. That was the day.......

I am not an automotive engineer but common sense tells me that the Cherokee KL developed this problem when Jeep went to electric steering in 2014. Jeep went to electric steering on the Grand Cherokee WK2 in 2016. Related problem maybe?

I have purchased the Mopar wiring kit that you recommended to correct the "Brake Controller" issue but it appears to be only for the Jeep KL model. Odd that it powers up the electric steering on the towed car but supplies no power to the "Brake Controller". The second braking system that I installed is the AF1 system that is totally pneumatic. No electricity required except for the breakaway system.

Frustrated, that’s an understatement. If you made a $50,000+ mistake you would be "frustrated" also.

Mike Hudson


Next email to James,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James,
Is this kit installable on the Grand Cherokee?
Mike

> On Oct 2, 2017, at 4:05 PM, customerassist <customerassist@chrysler.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Francis,
>
> Thank you for contacting the Jeep Customer Assistance Center.
>
> Has the issue returned after the installation of the recommended Tow
> accessory?
>
> Thank you again for your email. Should you require additional
> assistance, or have any new information to provide, please reply to this
> email message or call 1-877-I-AM-JEEP (1-877-426-5337).
>
> Sincerely,
>
> James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next email to James,

I'm just making sure before we start tearing into the vehicle as the Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee are two completely different vehicles.
Mike
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
His reply
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Francis,

Thank you for contacting the Jeep Customer Assistance Center.

As per the manual it is yes.

Thank you again for your email. Should you require additional assistance, or have any new information to provide, please reply to this
email message or call 1-877-I-AM-JEEP (1-877-426-5337).

Sincerely,

James
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I need to wait before replying today!

rpasetto 10-04-2017 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3835356)
Well as I feared James with Jeep doesn't know what he's talking about.
The harness is not compatible with the Grand Cherokee.
.................................................. ...............

Mike,
I am sorry to hear of your troubles with this. I was skeptical it would work but hoping that FCA engineering had found a way to adapt the KL Cherokee harness to the WK2. I suspect there is a fix and it may be similar to the KL Cherokee fix but I think that FCA-Jeep engineering has to get involved. It goes beyond the stage of customer service placating a few unhappy customers. This may be an issue of what-was-sold vs what-you-got. But enough said on that.

Back in the early days of the KL wobble issue a few of us owners were 'kicking around' the idea of adding an aftermarket hydraulic steering stabilizer. None were available for the KL and we'd heard that there was just no way to adapt one. That idea may or may not be a stop-gap measure for the GC and, also the Durango which is in the same platform.

(PS: Wasn't this the same guy who told you that the Jeep wasn't at fault and it had to do with the (non-existent) "some brake controllers do not have the required power" and had told someone else about "insufficient power" as well?)

mhudson 10-04-2017 12:13 PM

Yep that's him! I was hoping though!
We looked at the idea of a stabilizer but there's just no room for one.

opbart1 10-11-2017 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpasetto (Post 3826056)
You are welcome. Many dealers are not familiar with towing vehicles behind motorhomes, may not realize what the "kit" is supposed to do.

Sorry to 'hijack' this Grand Cherokee thread with these posts but if the GC fix is a similar wiring harness one you all will have the same thing.



Since I posted to this thread about my Cherokee issue wanted to share resolution. Went to dealer and had install verified, all good that they could tell. As I have a power issue running my BreakBuddy thought I would check to see if using an extra battery tied in would help, it did. EPS was active with set up when I plugged my battery for the BreakBuddy into the cig plug of the Cherokee. Not sure why but at least figured out the cause. Good luck to all with the GCs

pixelpro 03-28-2018 12:51 PM

So still no updates on this issue? I just bought a 2017 GC Trailhawk with the intent of towing behind my DP and watched the death wobble video. No way am I risking flipping both brand new vehicles and probably dying.

rpasetto 03-28-2018 03:49 PM

Just learned that recent Jeep Cherokee owners have been told that the Tow Harness is "undergoing redesign", none available for the Cherokee (unless you find a dealer with an old one around). Nonetheless the advertising is still assuring owners of the capability of these vehicles to be towed behind motorhomes. When checking the latest advertising for the Grand Cherokee and the new Cherokee.

For the Grand Cherokee, the page about "The available Quadra-Trac II® 4x4 System"...
"Neutral mode capability for available flat towing (8) behind a recreational vehicle." footnote (8) states:
"When properly equipped with the Mopar® Flat Tow Wiring Kit. See dealer for details."
The statement is at:
https://www.jeep.com/4x4.html#grandcherokee. Click on "Quadra-Trac II® 4x4 System" then select "Learn More" to see this.
For the Cherokee, the "The available Jeep® Active Drive II 4x4 System" ...
"... neutral mode enables available flat towing (8) behind an RV."
same footnote (8):
"When properly equipped with the Mopar® Flat Tow Wiring Kit. See dealer for details."
https://www.jeep.com/4x4.html#cherokee Click on "Jeep® Active Drive II 4x4 System"
So there it is, the current advertising clearly leads one to the dealer believing that they can buy a Jeep and set it up as a "towed". So Dealer sales sees the "Mopar® Flat Tow Wiring Kit" will enable the buyer to use it as a towed... then, after the fact, dealer service finds said kit is just not available. There's a word for this and it ain't "JEEP".

lass 03-28-2018 05:59 PM

rpasetto. An update for all.

The revised Cherokee flat tow harness was released about 2 weeks ago and at least one owner of the 2019 Overland claims that his harness was actually installed at the factory. His dealer was going to do the installation but they found that it was already there. We’re waiting for his confirmation after towing.

You’re correct about the learn more tab on line and if you look closely the towing information is listed for all Jeep models including the new Wrangler JL.

As for the Grand Cherokee, I received a call from my contact at Jeep corporate and was advised that engineering is working on 2 possible solutions but there is no ETA. So going forward I would not expect to see a solution for at least the next 6 months. Remember that the wobble was first reported in October of 2016.

In addition to the names that I accumulated from the forum, John Johnston at FMCA has received another 20 owners who have reported the wobble. The saga continues.

Las

rpasetto 03-28-2018 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 4108807)
rpasetto. An update for all.

The revised Cherokee flat tow harness was released about 2 weeks ago and at least one owner of the 2019 Overland claims that his harness was actually installed at the factory. His dealer was going to do the installation but they found that it was already there. We’re waiting for his confirmation after towing.

You’re correct about the learn more tab on line and if you look closely the towing information is listed for all Jeep models including the new Wrangler JL.

As for the Grand Cherokee, I received a call from my contact at Jeep corporate and was advised that engineering is working on 2 possible solutions but there is no ETA. So going forward I would not expect to see a solution for at least the next 6 months. Remember that the wobble was first reported in October of 2016.

In addition to the names that I accumulated from the forum, John Johnston at FMCA has received another 20 owners who have reported the wobble. The saga continues.

Las

Interesting to hear about the new Cherokee harness. On a Cherokee forum to which I belong, there have been many new owners posting that they are not able to get the harness, quite a few withing the last two weeks. It does seem contradictory that no FCA or Jeep representative has made an announcement of a revised Cherokee flat tow harness. I would think that the Jeep representatives on one of these forums would be really quick to announce such good news. Is there a name associated with that announcement?

Hmf23 03-29-2018 05:17 PM

While I've been watching this thread closely and waiting for the tow harness wiring to be made available we still purchased a 2018 GC Summit. Fully set it up and planned to tow and take it easy as we start using it as a Toad. Reading it seems most incidents were with slow speed tight turns and uneven surfaces, so I'm really watching whenever those may exist. Currently on a week long trip to Disneyland, we l ft last Friday with 3 days in Santa Cruz and then they Disneyland. Not one issue yet from Sac to Santa Cruz and the. South to Anaheim, tomorrow we make our way home. So I'm not saying the issue does or doesn't not exist just saying so far so good without any harness installed that I may know of.

BPoland 03-30-2018 03:28 AM

We have had the 2016 GC Limited since early February 2016. We have towed it thousands of miles, and have had two instances of wobble. Both were starting from a dead stop with a left hand turn. I stopped and restarted and that was it. I have never had it occur at highway speeds and have only heard of 1 person reporting that it did. Great car. Great towed. That being said, if it ever occurs at highway speeds, it’s gone.

Best of luck to you. Enjoy the Summit.

Ready2Travel 04-01-2018 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hmf23 (Post 4110442)
While I've been watching this thread closely and waiting for the tow harness wiring to be made available we still purchased a 2018 GC Summit. Fully set it up and planned to tow and take it easy as we start using it as a Toad. Reading it seems most incidents were with slow speed tight turns and uneven surfaces, so I'm really watching whenever those may exist. Currently on a week long trip to Disneyland, we l ft last Friday with 3 days in Santa Cruz and then they Disneyland. Not one issue yet from Sac to Santa Cruz and the. South to Anaheim, tomorrow we make our way home. So I'm not saying the issue does or doesn't not exist just saying so far so good without any harness installed that I may know of.

Same here, no problems so far with a 2018 Limited GC. Made a trip south beginning In Nov, 3000+ miles, hooked/unhooked about 15 times. So far 0 issues. Our Limited has the offroad package (air suspension plus wider tires plus skid plates) that may or may not make a difference.

lass 04-01-2018 05:14 PM

For everyone who has read through the 2 threads on the GC wobble we have always said that it is intermittent but does happen on occasion. From my last contact with corporate the response remains the same that engineering is working on a solution. I’m certain that it will be released but I have decided the go a different path with the new Wrangler JL.

I’ll continue my contact with Jeep corporate and FMCA and report status as I receive it.

Las

harleyjt 04-01-2018 05:44 PM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
What's interesting to me is that it doesn't seem like the EPS system would be much different than conventional hydraulic system. If you think about it, neither system furnishes power assist with the engine off. Both systems are stiff. So why do we need a harness to power up the EPS when towing? We've never had power assist on the toad before and it's always worked fine. I've only toed my 2017 Grand Limited a little less than 1000 miles and so far so good.
jt

jharrell 04-01-2018 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleyjt (Post 4115276)
What's interesting to me is that it doesn't seem like the EPS system would be much different than conventional hydraulic system. If you think about it, neither system furnishes power assist with the engine off. Both systems are stiff.

My understanding is the EPS systems have a safety clutch that disengages if somethings not right so you can manually steer. If power is off this clutch is also disengaged so now you have little resistance from back driving the steering. The harness energizes the EPS which engages the clutch.

Its actually kind of difficult to find information on the jeep EPS design, but it look like a dual pinion design where a electric motor drives a second pinion on the rack through a worm gear and clutch. Seems like it would actually be very difficult to turn the wheel if the clutch is engaged trying to back drive the motor through a worm gear.

Hydraulic systems don't need a clutch and just offer some resistance when off due to pushing the fluid through the open control valves.

rpasetto 04-01-2018 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleyjt (Post 4115276)
What's interesting to me is that it doesn't seem like the EPS system would be much different than conventional hydraulic system. If you think about it, neither system furnishes power assist with the engine off. Both systems are stiff. So why do we need a harness to power up the EPS when towing? We've never had power assist on the toad before and it's always worked fine. I've only toed my 2017 Grand Limited a little less than 1000 miles and so far so good.
jt

There's an inherent damping in the hydraulic system which is not present in the solenoid -controlled EPS systems; i.e. the fluid in the former systems resist rapid movements somewhat like the fluid in a shock absorber. In the latter systems, at least on the Cherokee, the software in the EPS computer acts to reduce wobble. The Cherokee-wobble-fix turns the EPS on for this software algorithm to work. Other vehicles from Ford and GM with similar EPS systems have had issues as well. Although all steering systems may feel "stiff when the vehicle is not moving this characteristic changes as speed develops.

Many with Cherokees towed theirs for thousands of miles before having a wobble event. These have been going on since the first 2014 Cherokees took to the road in tow behind motorhomes. I suggest you look through some of the threads in the many Cherokee forums as well as here on IRV2. Here's one thread here worth reading thru: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/sever...ee-240620.html

lass 04-04-2018 09:53 AM

Note: I will post this same detail on the 2 main threads that relate to the Jeep Grand Cherokee Electronic Power Steering front end "wobble".

As some of you may be aware, since my first email to the Jeep CEO in early November 2017, I have requested information from forum members who have experienced the "wobble". This information was added to an excel spreadsheet and submitted to Jeep corporate from 2 different directions. It was also sent the John Johnston at FMCA as a 3rd. source.

After approximately 50 email and phone call communications to corporate, the latest information is that Jeep engineering is still performing testing and analysis on 2 possible solutions but we do not have a specific time frame for release.

The FMCA contact has not confirmed any engineering activity to John, so he is going to modify my spreadsheet and needs more information from owners. I will send PM's to "Ol Opa"; "hdridermib"; "13charlie" "Crabby Mike"; "jlr44"; "esaulten"

If you are new to this and have experienced the "wobble" send me a PM and email John directly at FMCA. jjohnston@fmca.com

Remember the Cherokee situation. Owner who added their names to the list, got the upgrade for free.

Las --- as full disclosure, I traded the Summit for a 2018 Wrangler JL Rubicon.
but will continue my efforts in order to find a solution for the GC.

SuperGewl 04-10-2018 05:23 AM

Well now that you have your undies in a bunch you need to fix the problem by looking at your TOAD gear first.
You also need to know that the problem is not just JEEPs but with any EPS Toad.
Start by checking your receiver, you need to extend it out as if you were going to hook it up to the Toad. Then attempt to move it up and down and side to side in the receiver. If it moves or clunks as some might say then you need to fix this. It should not be allowed to oscillate. Install a Quite Hitch.
Next check the ride height of the Toad prior to hook up and then after you have hooked up and aired up the MH. If the Toad ride height is higher after this then you need to lower the tow bar because you are lifting the front of the Toad, or what we call unloading the suspension.
By doing these two things you will help mitigate the Death Wobble in ALL Toads.
Don't shoot the messenger, fix your problem before you point the finger.:angel:

rpasetto 04-10-2018 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl (Post 4129903)
Well now that you have your undies in a bunch you need to fix the problem by looking at your TOAD gear first.
You also need to know that the problem is not just JEEPs but with any EPS Toad.
Start by checking your receiver, you need to extend it out as if you were going to hook it up to the Toad. Then attempt to move it up and down and side to side in the receiver. If it moves or clunks as some might say then you need to fix this. It should not be allowed to oscillate. Install a Quite Hitch.
Next check the ride height of the Toad prior to hook up and then after you have hooked up and aired up the MH. If the Toad ride height is higher after this then you need to lower the tow bar because you are lifting the front of the Toad, or what we call unloading the suspension.
By doing these two things you will help mitigate the Death Wobble in ALL Toads.
Don't shoot the messenger, fix your problem before you point the finger.:angel:

Not to disagree with any of the methods you state for proper set up and alignment of the towbar, All towbar manufacturers make these same recommendations for any 'toad' setup.

There is still an inherent wobble tendency in EPS systems. EPS which use servomotors, lack the hydraulic damping inherent in "conventional" PS. FCA/Jeep went through the analysis years ago and developed their patented 'wobble mitigation' algorithm. I suggest you read the many threads about the Cherokee wobble; You'll find information in numerous forums, as well as this one, since 2014.

lass 04-10-2018 01:20 PM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
SuperGewl. I certainly hope that you are not referring to my undies being in a bunch because I would find that statement to be offensive.

rpasetto summed it up very diplomatically and that is how we have handled this situation for the past 8 months, but I need to ask. Since your profile says that you have a 2014 Cherokee Trailhawk, are you not aware of the front wobble which was solved by Jeep a little over s year ago. Did you not have a wobble problem and don’t need to have the flat tow harness installed.

There are quite a few forum members who are great full that Jeep stepped up with a fix and that is all that Grand Cherokee owners are asking.

Las

rpasetto 04-10-2018 01:39 PM

Just to add to the statement from @lass, Owners of 2014 and 2015 Cherokees got the tow-harness-fix gratis from FCA Jeep because there was nothing in the brochure or owners manual stating that the tow harness kit was required, while it was stated that the vehicles were the ideal towable vehicle (That is the ones with AD2 which has the neutral button). Hopefully the GC owners, at least those who bought theirs early on, may get a similar deal.... when the fix for these vehicles comes along.

As an added caution, many Cherokee owners have been told by dealers "'you don't need the tow harness kit, because ... {variety of B___S___ reasons}". Fortunately only a few owners were gullible enough to believe it. Rest assured, all the towable Cherokees, 2014 and UP, need that kit. When, hopefully soon, FCA comes up with a similar wobble-fix for the EPS-equipped GC's, they'll all need it. [Meanwhile, in my travels, when I see a new-looking GC being towed behind a MH, I give it a wide berth.]

Be safe y'all.

mhudson 04-10-2018 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supergewl (Post 4129903)
well now that you have your undies in a bunch you need to fix the problem by looking at your toad gear first.
You also need to know that the problem is not just jeeps but with any eps toad.
Start by checking your receiver, you need to extend it out as if you were going to hook it up to the toad. Then attempt to move it up and down and side to side in the receiver. If it moves or clunks as some might say then you need to fix this. It should not be allowed to oscillate. Install a quite hitch.
Next check the ride height of the toad prior to hook up and then after you have hooked up and aired up the mh. If the toad ride height is higher after this then you need to lower the tow bar because you are lifting the front of the toad, or what we call unloading the suspension.
By doing these two things you will help mitigate the death wobble in all toads.
Don't shoot the messenger, fix your problem before you point the finger.:angel:



my undies are in a bunch because of jeeps problem, not mine. As i’ve responded before “ no slop in towing equipment”. None. Tow bar perfectly level . As to lifting the front of the toad explain how that can happen when the pins in the baseplate allow for up and down movement and the wheels of the toad are freewheeling?
P;$$ed, yes i am. I have fought this problem through two baseplates, two tow bars and two different braking systems , a usless dealership and an idiot at jeep care. Its the Jeeps eps.

rpasetto 04-10-2018 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 4131229)
my undies are in a bunch because of jeeps problem, not mine. As i’ve responded before “ no slop in towing equipment”. None. Tow bar perfectly level . As to lifting the front of the toad explain how that can happen when the pins in the baseplate allow for up and down movement and the wheels of the toad are freewheeling?
P;$$ed, yes i am. I have fought this problem through two baseplates, two tow bars and two different braking systems , a usless dealership and an idiot at jeep care. Its the Jeeps eps.

Slop in tow equipment and towbars out of level can have other effects, but the "death-wobble" is inherent in the EPS, that is, the lack of damping of a hydraulic system.

One can only guess, that the FCA engineers are well aware of this and are probably in the throws of researching whether adding an hydraulic damper (not possible with the KL Cherokee) or designing a circuit to activate the EPS while towing. However the latter would only work if the software in the EPS of the GC has a "wobble mitigation algorithm" equivalent to that of the KL Cherokee and other vehicles with that platform.

However, while the engineers at FCA may be working on this, marketing is figuring how to spin the facts to sell as much 'iron' as possible and the bean counters are figuring how to maximize profits. Whoever has the say on what FCA will do is anyone's guess.

Safe travels.

BPoland 04-11-2018 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpasetto (Post 4130682)
Just to add to the statement from @lass, Owners of 2014 and 2015 Cherokees got the tow-harness-fix gratis from FCA Jeep because there was nothing in the brochure or owners manual stating that the tow harness kit was required, while it was stated that the vehicles were the ideal towable vehicle (That is the ones with AD2 which has the neutral button). Hopefully the GC owners, at least those who bought theirs early on, may get a similar deal.... when the fix for these vehicles comes along.

As an added caution, many Cherokee owners have been told by dealers "'you don't need the tow harness kit, because ... {variety of B___S___ reasons}". Fortunately only a few owners were gullible enough to believe it. Rest assured, all the towable Cherokees, 2014 and UP, need that kit. When, hopefully soon, FCA comes up with a similar wobble-fix for the EPS-equipped GC's, they'll all need it. [Meanwhile, in my travels, when I see a new-looking GC being towed behind a MH, I give it a wide berth.]

Be safe y'all.

I had a 2015 Cherokee that I towed for over 4K miles, and never had the wobble. Got rid of the 2015 Cherokee (Lemon Law) and picked one of the first built 2016 Grand Cherokee. I have experienced the wobble twice within 5 mins of each other. Starting out, bumpy hard left hand turn. Came to a stop and wobble was gone. It has never happened at highway speeds. I have heard of 1 person that claimed it happen to them at highway speeds.

I think your comment about giving all GCs a wide berth is a little much. Can it happen? Yup. Will it happen? Maybe. Is it going to be a catastrophic event? Probably not. Will it get your attention, if and when it happens? The pucker factor will go up. :eek:

I like my Grand Cherokee. I don’t see it as a towable death trap. If and when FCA comes out with a fix, I will evaluate it and see if it’s worth the hassle. I hope I didn’t offend anyone. Just tired of “The Sky is Falling” mentality. Just think, it it wasn’t for EPS, this problem wouldn’t exist. Ain’t modern technology great?

rpasetto 04-11-2018 12:29 PM

@BPoland: When I see a trailer ahead which is not holding in the lane, I give it a "wide berth" as I pass it. Is it very likely it'll go out of control?... No, but if there's a higher probability of an undesirable event, why tempt fate? Same for a GC.

This is not a "sky-is-falling" mentality. Rather it is avoiding the "it-won't-happen-to-me" mentality.

Carefree 05-16-2018 07:29 AM

I tried sending Jeep an email through their contact link but their system is not responding - no emails are getting through right now.

I did send a detailed email to John at FMCA after experiencing the death wobble yesterday for the first time after 18,000 miles of trouble free towing behind our motorhome. So yes, it's only a question of time before all GC owners with the electric steering will experience the wobble. Guaranteed.

harleyjt 05-16-2018 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carefree (Post 4191454)
I tried sending Jeep an email through their contact link but their system is not responding - no emails are getting through right now.

I did send a detailed email to John at FMCA after experiencing the death wobble yesterday for the first time after 18,000 miles of trouble free towing behind our motorhome. So yes, it's only a question of time before all GC owners with the electric steering will experience the wobble. Guaranteed.

Under what conditions did it occur?
jt

Carefree 05-16-2018 09:40 AM

Sharp left turn onto highway ramp. The pavement was very uneven when I made the turn. I was going slow - not even 25 mph.

harleyjt 05-16-2018 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carefree (Post 4191664)
Sharp left turn onto highway ramp. The pavement was very uneven when I made the turn. I was going slow - not even 25 mph.

Ok, thanks. I wondered. Sounds like the classic case that has been experienced by others when it does happen.
jt

Carefree 05-16-2018 05:10 PM

As long as these wobbles happen at slow speeds I would not consider them a major safety issue. Just turn on your emergency flashers and come to a short complete stop. I have not heard (yet) anyone who had the wobble at higher speeds - at least not with the GC.

D Moffitt 05-16-2018 07:11 PM

Well, I hope a solution emerges for those who have experienced this phenomenon on Grand Cherokees with electric power steering.

As for me, I continue to tow my 2016 Grand Cherokee with no "wobble" (I intentionally deleted "death" from my description, as I have yet to hear of any deaths). So far (10,000+ miles) I see no difference in towing my 2016 from the 2014 GC it replaced.

Not sure why I've been so lucky. However, I use a Blue-Ox Avail tow bar, which has longer arms and may make the "geometry" more favorable. Additionally, I always make turns as wide and slow as possible.

For me, my Grand Cherokees have been incredible tow vehicles. They are far more comfortable than the Wrangler they replaced and, with the optional Off-Road Adventure package take me everywhere I used to go in my Wrangler. The larger fuel tank combined with the far more economical Ecodiesel engine (50% improvement in fuel economy over the Wrangler) give me a lot more range between fill-ups.

I'm not posting this to deny the claims by those who have had problems with their GCs. Rather, I'm just suggesting that it hasn't happened to all of us.

Carefree 05-16-2018 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Moffitt (Post 4192552)
Well, I hope a solution emerges for those who have experienced this phenomenon on Grand Cherokees with electric power steering.

As for me, I continue to tow my 2016 Grand Cherokee with no "wobble" (I intentionally deleted "death" from my description, as I have yet to hear of any deaths). So far (10,000+ miles) I see no difference in towing my 2016 from the 2014 GC it replaced.

Not sure why I've been so lucky. However, I use a Blue-Ox Avail tow bar, which has longer arms and may make the "geometry" more favorable. Additionally, I always make turns as wide and slow as possible.

For me, my Grand Cherokees have been incredible tow vehicles. They are far more comfortable than the Wrangler they replaced and, with the optional Off-Road Adventure package take me everywhere I used to go in my Wrangler. The larger fuel tank combined with the far more economical Ecodiesel engine (50% improvement in fuel economy over the Wrangler) give me a lot more range between fill-ups.

I'm not posting this to deny the claims by those who have had problems with their GCs. Rather, I'm just suggesting that it hasn't happened to all of us.

Yep, until yesterday I never experienced the wobble and we have towed our 2016 GC for 18,000 miles behind our motorhome. It really is just a matter of the right circumstances. It has nothing to do with the towbar, baseplate or anything else. We need to get power to the electric steering - Jeep needs to step up and install a similar harness as they did for the 2014 (and up) Cherokees.

It's kind of mind blowing why they are taking their dear time. At some point someone will have an accident because of the wobble and then they will be liable. It's a shame.

I've owned a 2014 Cherokee with the death wobble and Jeep dragged their feet on a solution forever. It was only through FMCA that we were able to shame them into developing the harness.

D Moffitt 05-16-2018 07:38 PM

Apparently, I have not been unfortunate enough to experience the "right circumstances."

Accordingly, I will remain mute on this topic until those obviously far more knowledgable than I come up with a solution.

Sorry if I "stirred the pot" too much.

Carefree 05-16-2018 07:56 PM

You didn't stir the pot at all. That's not how my post was meant. I thought exactly like you until yesterday. I get it.

BPoland 05-17-2018 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carefree (Post 4192571)
Yep, until yesterday I never experienced the wobble and we have towed our 2016 GC for 18,000 miles behind our motorhome. It really is just a matter of the right circumstances. It has nothing to do with the towbar, baseplate or anything else. We need to get power to the electric steering - Jeep needs to step up and install a similar harness as they did for the 2014 (and up) Cherokees.

It's kind of mind blowing why they are taking their dear time. At some point someone will have an accident because of the wobble and then they will be liable. It's a shame.

I've owned a 2014 Cherokee with the death wobble and Jeep dragged their feet on a solution forever. It was only through FMCA that we were able to shame them into developing the harness.

Actually, liability would probably be a tough sell for you or anyone else that has knowledge and or prior experiences with the wobble. A case would probably be made that you knew of the deficiencies of the inactive EPS system while towing your GC. Knowing the hazard, you willingly continued towing it, thereby accepting the risk. I’m no lawyer, but I can see where a high price lawyer could have a field day with this one.

All that being said, I will continue to tow our 2016 GC. If the wobble ever happens at highway speeds, all bet are off! As much as I like her, she’ll be headed to the used car lot.

rpasetto 05-17-2018 07:04 AM

There may not be much to support those theories that the GC wobble occurs only at low speeds and-or sharp turns. What was discovered among Cherokee owners is that the sequence of hitting a sequence of bumps, alternating the hits to left and right wheels, with the correct timing was what initiated the wobble. Events such as crossing diagonal RR tracks or hitting alternating potholes while going straight set up that wobble condition, just as hitting ruts/bumps perpendicular to the road while in a turn would do. Some owners believe the wobble events are sympathetic vibrations initiated when wheels bump alternately side-to-side at "just-the-right" frequency (somewhat akin to the tuning fork and piano string). I had thought for a while that a "steering damper" might have been a solution only to find none were available for the KL Cherokee.

With the GC, some things might be different, although the change from an hydraulic steering system to EPS shows a determining factor. Whatever solution FCA/Jeep develops, it is highly likely the solution will involve dampening the wobble, whether by software in the EPS computer or some mechanical means.

The best to all of you who wait for a solution, here's hoping that comes soon. To those who feel that the slow-speed-wobble cannot be a safety issue, think about wobble on highway entrance/exit ramps or in heavy traffic.

Razorrick 05-27-2018 04:23 PM

First wobble in 18’GC summit. Second time to tow and then it occurred. Turning right into a on ramp at approximately 10-15 mph. Stopped and it quit. Not what I bought the vehicle for. Towed a 13 wrangler for 5 years with no issues. Having some regrets now. Hope Jeep is taking this serious.

FLSteve 05-27-2018 07:27 PM

Has anybody with a new JL Wrangler experienced this wobble yet?

rpasetto 05-28-2018 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLSteve (Post 4211409)
Has anybody with a new JL Wrangler experienced this wobble yet?

Does the JL Wrangler now have EPS? or it it still equipped with hydraulic PS?

lass 05-28-2018 05:48 AM

rpasetto , there are a few other threads on the subject but the short version is that the JK steering was mechanically driven hydraulic steering whereas the JL is electronically driven hydraulic steering. Neither would be active during towing.

rpasetto 05-28-2018 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 4211790)
rpasetto , there are a few other threads on the subject but the short version is that the JK steering was mechanically driven hydraulic steering whereas the JL is electronically driven hydraulic steering. Neither would be active during towing.

"Electro-Hydraulic systems" which use an electronic control system and an electrically driven PS pump will (hopefully) be OK as the hydraulics should provide the damping of vibration. Even in a mechanical-hydraulic system, the PS pump is off while it's being towed.

Perhaps FCA will go back to engineering this system for the next GC update. Meanwhile I haven't heard anything about the technical aspects of the FCA project to provide a GC fix. The KL (Cherokee) fix is relatively simplistic. It just activates the the EPS computer which has software that "mitigates" wobble during normal running/driving.

I know lot of GC owners out there who'd like to see the solution soon. Hope for the best for you.

Butte64 06-30-2018 01:02 PM

My 2017 GC Limited has been towed less than 6K miles, no wobble. Many turns at low speed including a very sharp 180 on dirt road. I’m wondering if towbar geometry has an effect. I’m using a drop hitch so BlueOx baseplate and Avail towbar are level. Would be interesting if anyone with same setup had wobble.

lass 06-30-2018 01:27 PM

Butte64. I have a list of over 40 Grand Cherokee owners with their specific towing set up and it doesn’t make any difference. In reading some of these threads, owner have towed for 15K miles before the wobble happened. As long as your set up is level to mfg specification, the brand doesn’t matter Demco, Blue Ox, Roadmaster have all experienced the problem.

DrDaveMA 07-01-2018 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 4266629)
Butte64. I have a list of over 40 Grand Cherokee owners with their specific towing set up and it doesn’t make any difference. In reading some of these threads, owner have towed for 15K miles before the wobble happened. As long as your set up is level to mfg specification, the brand doesn’t matter Demco, Blue Ox, Roadmaster have all experienced the problem.



And at least 1 that has towed over 15k without a problem, but we are NOT telling the coach or GC that, it is our little Secret!

Btw, lass, is there any correlation to having a charge line connected?

lass 07-01-2018 05:51 AM

DrDaveMD. We have not seen any correlation with the charge line. It will maintain the battery but still doesn’t tie into the steering.
I had previously posted that I traded the Summit for a new JLU Rubicon and here’s the ironic part. Rumors are the the JL will have a harness in a few week. The GC just waits for one.

DrDaveMA 07-01-2018 07:39 PM

Lass, I feel that at some point we will find a correlation to a little suspected part or connection, we just have to keep digging, thanks for your efforts.

ternzer 07-01-2018 09:42 PM

We recently switched from a 16 Cherokee Trailhawk to a 17 grand Cherokee Trailhawk. I had the flat tow harness installed on the last one. I am disappointed to now see that the JGC suffers fro the same issue. I will stay tuned for a solution...
I just finished the base plate install today. If i get the wobble i will report back on that as well.

rpasetto 07-02-2018 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDaveMA (Post 4268563)
Lass, I feel that at some point we will find a correlation to a little suspected part or connection, we just have to keep digging, thanks for your efforts.

The one part is the EPS. Many 2014+ Cherokee owners went through the same thing a few years earlier. We went through towbar, baseplate, angle, motorhome, or how tight/lose the towbar was... but the common factor was very simply the lack of hydraulic damping in the Cherokee steering system. Through the research done, one owner discovered that FCA had applied for a patent on the software in their EPS which counters the wobble during normal driving; the famed "tow harness" fix came out later.

On the Grand Cherokee, reports of the wobble tendency began in the year that the GC switched their design to EPS.

Big_Boy 07-02-2018 09:32 AM

OK. I am now a believer. I finally experienced the "wobble" this weekend after over 7,000 trouble-free tow miles.

We exited I-70 westbound in Topeka, KS at "Carnahans Ave." Stopped at the stop sign. Had to turn left. This is a fairly hard left turn after crossing around a small dirt median. The pavement is fairly rough with a few potholes. I might have steered slightly right before turning hard left to make sure back tire of the coach cleared the curb on the median. As soon as I started to straighten out, I got a shaking that reminded me of having a flat tire on an old Volkswagen. Man! I probably pulled the JGC for about 100 yards with this shaking.

However...I did not panic. I just stopped for a few seconds and then pulled straight ahead. No more shaking. The JGC pulled smoothly and had no further problems with the two left hand turns in the next mile going into the RV park.

Even though I always believed this could happen, the long time I have been towing had lulled me into a state of complacency. This event made this problem very real. Nevertheless, I have even more confidence that this will not happen at speed.

The 'wobble' seems to coincide with sharp turns and major bumps in the pavement. My feeling is that the lack of damping in the steering system allows disturbances as you find on bumpy roads to overcome the 'normal' stabilizing inputs.

Carefree 07-02-2018 09:37 AM

There is a "Bush'Fix" for the wobble. Use bungy cords and tie them to the steering wheel and then route them around the back of the driver's seat.We had to do this with our former Cherokee until we got the wire harness installed. It works as a "patch solution"

CWSWine 07-02-2018 09:49 AM

Big Boy
I experienced my first wobble right around 7000 miles and did it twice in the same day. If you complain to Jeep they send a nice letter saying don't tow 4 down but all 4 on a trailer. Nice CYA...

SuperGewl 07-10-2018 01:28 AM

I'm sorry but I think this Death Wobble thing is because those that tow don't have their toad setup properly.
I have towed mine across country and back thru various terrains without issue. But I have mine setup properly; the MH does not lift the front end of the Toad, there is no clunking/sway In the tow bar and my tow bar system (Roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front of the car to complete the triangle and ensure the Toad frame does not flex.

And just to let you know the facts, it's NOT just Jeeps, its any car or truck with an EPS. The main reason why you seem only hear about it with Jeeps is because of their popularity.

rpasetto 07-10-2018 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl (Post 4283320)
I'm sorry but I think this Death Wobble thing is because those that tow don't have their toad setup properly.
I have towed mine across country and back thru various terrains without issue. But I have mine setup properly; the MH does not lift the front end of the Toad, there is no clunking/sway In the tow bar and my tow bar system (Roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front of the car to complete the triangle and ensure the Toad frame does not flex.

And just to let you know the facts, it's NOT just Jeeps, its any car or truck with an EPS. The main reason why you seem only hear about it with Jeeps is because of their popularity.

You're on-target about the EPS. With servos controlling the steering there's no damping of vibrations which may set up within the steering system. The potential vibration is there even when the EPS equipped Jeep is driving down the road, which is why Jeep/FCA has (patented) software in the EPS computer to counter the wobble. The wobble is inherent in the natural low-frequency resonance of the steering components. It is not a function of the number or depth/height of the ruts/bumps but rather the timing.

With tighter towbar connections that vibration (if it occurs) will be felt more strongly in the MH; with looser connections, the rattle will be louder.

mhudson 07-10-2018 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl (Post 4283320)
I'm sorry but I think this Death Wobble thing is because those that tow don't have their toad setup properly.
I have towed mine across country and back thru various terrains without issue. But I have mine setup properly; the MH does not lift the front end of the Toad, there is no clunking/sway In the tow bar and my tow bar system (Roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front of the car to complete the triangle and ensure the Toad frame does not flex.

And just to let you know the facts, it's NOT just Jeeps, its any car or truck with an EPS. The main reason why you seem only hear about it with Jeeps is because of their popularity.



My Motorhome did not lift the front of the toad. There was no clunking/sway in the towbar. My towbar system (roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front to complete the triangle to assure the toad frame didn’t flex. Towbar system at ride height was level within less than 1 inch. Please tell me what I could have done different? Moot point now as my problem is fixed. Jeep is gone. I guess I’m just lucky. Don’t seem to have the problem with any other vehicle I’ve towed in the past or am presently towing. Must’ve been my setup.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:08 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.