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-   -   New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/new-plan-jeep-grand-cherokee-eps-wobble-360864.html)

mhudson 10-03-2017 01:45 PM

Yes. If the computer harness is the same we’ll install, read and clear the codes per the instructions then place the Jeep in tow mode and check the steering. If it works like rpasetto described I’m going to tow it next week for a 1200 mile trip we have planned.

rpasetto 10-03-2017 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3833815)
As of today we are attempting to install the wiring harness kit for the Cherokee on our Grand Cherokee.
After going back and forth with James with Jeep customer assistance center the wiring harness is the same. I'll know shortly. He has assured me that the harness will work on either vehicle. I have my mechanic working on it now.
We looked at the way the harness works and if the computer harness is the same it should be a drop in.
Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 3833824)
Thanks mike. Good to know.
Now the question is how are you going to test it? Are you using the information from rpasetto in post #25?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3833855)
Yes. If the computer harness is the same we’ll install, read and clear the codes per the instructions then place the Jeep in tow mode and check the steering. If it works like rpasetto described I’m going to tow it next week for a 1200 mile trip we have planned.

Wow! I'd suggest you have the dealer check with someone at Jeep-FCA to make sure the procedures and connections for installation are in fact the same. The Cherokee differs from the Grand Cherokee quite a lot, including engine and trans. Some things to note which I've learned from many knowledgeable people on the Cherokee forums:
  1. The Cherokee kit consists of some wiring along with a switch (DPST) and a fuse.
  2. The purpose of the fuse is to provide power to the EPS system while the engine is off. (some Cherokee owners have added a switch or relay to avoid having to insert and pull this fuse).
  3. The purpose of the switch is to completely isolate the EPS circuits, computer, etc from the CAN bus. The CAN (Controller Area Network) bus connects the EPS computer with computers which control engine, transmission, air bags, cruise control, and in some cars: electric park brake, collision avoidance, park assist etc. These computers and the software which runs on them are likely different between Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. If the EPS is not properly isolated from other systems, which are off with engine not running, error codes can show up ... or the system may not work as it is supposed to or ... "unpredictable results" can occur.
If this EPS system "cutoff" is not wired in to the bus correctly, something might be damaged. Only Jeep-FCA engineering personnel has intimate knowledge of how the CAN bus circuitry works and how the software on all these different computers on the CAN bus work. Thus they are the ultimate source of info on how the "harness" wiring is to be inserted.

Best of luck with this... once you get the car back with the wiring harness installed try the steps I outlined in an earlier post.

lass 10-03-2017 04:01 PM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
At least we have 3 things going for us.

Mike is installing the Cherokee harness and we'll see if it works.

The spreadsheet has been sent to FMCA and will be forwarded to FCA.

I called my service manager and she agreed to send the spreadsheet directly to her engineering contacts at Jeep.

Hay I think that we're pushing all of the right buttons so let's stay tuned.

mhudson 10-03-2017 06:44 PM

The harness is a two part install. The under the hood part is straightforward. The main power for the EPS is switched on by a relay when the fuse is inserted to tow. The inside part to the CAN buss is what we’re hoping is the same. There is a small harness from the computer to the EPS that is unplugged from the computer and the switch installed in series so it can be switched on and off. When tow mode is needed you wait for the computer to go to sleep. Then switch the buss switch off inside. Then insert the fuse outside to power the EPS circuit up. (Yes, that needs an interior switch wired in series after the fuse).

Jeep FCA is who has been communicating with me about this. I specifically asked to make sure they realized I was dealing with a Grand Cherokee and not a Cherokee. Actually I asked twice!
Hopefully I’ll know tomorrow morning.

rpasetto 10-04-2017 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3834387)
The harness is a two part install. The under the hood part is straightforward. The main power for the EPS is switched on by a relay when the fuse is inserted to tow. The inside part to the CAN buss is what we’re hoping is the same. There is a small harness from the computer to the EPS that is unplugged from the computer and the switch installed in series so it can be switched on and off. When tow mode is needed you wait for the computer to go to sleep. Then switch the buss switch off inside. Then insert the fuse outside to power the EPS circuit up. (Yes, that needs an interior switch wired in series after the fuse).

Jeep FCA is who has been communicating with me about this. I specifically asked to make sure they realized I was dealing with a Grand Cherokee and not a Cherokee. Actually I asked twice!
Hopefully I’ll know tomorrow morning.

It looks like you' re on the right track. The sequence to follow with disconnecting CAN bus first and then activating EPS is important. Test it a few times to make sure the procedure does activate the EPS, and be sure the check-engine light doesn't go on. If the service guy will hook up a code reader to the diagnostic connector , he can check for any bus errors after the test.

Hoping everything works out OK....

mhudson 10-04-2017 11:06 AM

Well as I feared James with Jeep doesn't know what he's talking about.
The harness is not compatible with the Grand Cherokee.

This is my reply to his first email, I probably should have waited before replying.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
James,
I am beyond frustrated.

We purchased this Jeep in September of 2016. I was fully aware of the flat tow issues with the Cherokee (model KL.
We were assured by the selling dealership the 2016 Grand Cherokee (model WK2) was flat towable as purchased.

I had Roadmaster baseplates installed and we towed the Jeep the first time in October of 2016. Within 20 miles of the beginning of our trip we experienced the front end wobble, upon acceleration, nothing to do with braking.

We towed the remainder of that trip with no re occurrence of the wobble issue. Returned home and I took the Jeep to our selling dealership (Quality in Greenwood SC) where they could find nothing wrong. Of course the Jeep drove and handled perfectly if it was not being towed. The dealership cannot ride around with me while I'm towing for possibly a couple of thousand miles until it does it again.

I had major surgery last fall and was not able to drive the motorhome until spring of this year. Last winter while I was recuperating I researched the problem. I could find no one else having this problem. I considered it such a serious problem that I purchased another type baseplate, towbar and braking system and had installed on the Jeep. Just to make sure that it was not something that was unique to my situation.

On Easter weekend of this year we towed the Jeep to Charleston SC for the weekend. The trip there was fine. The return trip home we experienced the wobble issue twice. On Monday we took the Jeep to the dealership again. They opened a "Star"(?) case with FCA. Recommended front end alignment and tire pressure check. The front end was probable out of alignment due to being violently shaken the 3 times that this has happened. The motorhome weight is 36500 pounds. The 5000 pound Jeep jerks the rear of the 36K# motorhome so violently that it will spill a cup of coffee 40 feet forward of the hitch. It's that bad. The only way to stop the wobble is to come to a complete stop. After that its fine. Until the next time. Whenever that may be.

In June I towed the Jeep to the Spartan Chassis factory in Michigan and back (1600 miles) with no issues. Numerous short trips close to home during the summer. No issues other than wondering if today's the day. . In September I towed the Jeep to the Cummins shop in Spartanburg SC (50 miles) and the front end wobbled once. That was the day.......

I am not an automotive engineer but common sense tells me that the Cherokee KL developed this problem when Jeep went to electric steering in 2014. Jeep went to electric steering on the Grand Cherokee WK2 in 2016. Related problem maybe?

I have purchased the Mopar wiring kit that you recommended to correct the "Brake Controller" issue but it appears to be only for the Jeep KL model. Odd that it powers up the electric steering on the towed car but supplies no power to the "Brake Controller". The second braking system that I installed is the AF1 system that is totally pneumatic. No electricity required except for the breakaway system.

Frustrated, that’s an understatement. If you made a $50,000+ mistake you would be "frustrated" also.

Mike Hudson


Next email to James,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James,
Is this kit installable on the Grand Cherokee?
Mike

> On Oct 2, 2017, at 4:05 PM, customerassist <customerassist@chrysler.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Francis,
>
> Thank you for contacting the Jeep Customer Assistance Center.
>
> Has the issue returned after the installation of the recommended Tow
> accessory?
>
> Thank you again for your email. Should you require additional
> assistance, or have any new information to provide, please reply to this
> email message or call 1-877-I-AM-JEEP (1-877-426-5337).
>
> Sincerely,
>
> James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next email to James,

I'm just making sure before we start tearing into the vehicle as the Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee are two completely different vehicles.
Mike
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
His reply
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Francis,

Thank you for contacting the Jeep Customer Assistance Center.

As per the manual it is yes.

Thank you again for your email. Should you require additional assistance, or have any new information to provide, please reply to this
email message or call 1-877-I-AM-JEEP (1-877-426-5337).

Sincerely,

James
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I need to wait before replying today!

rpasetto 10-04-2017 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 3835356)
Well as I feared James with Jeep doesn't know what he's talking about.
The harness is not compatible with the Grand Cherokee.
.................................................. ...............

Mike,
I am sorry to hear of your troubles with this. I was skeptical it would work but hoping that FCA engineering had found a way to adapt the KL Cherokee harness to the WK2. I suspect there is a fix and it may be similar to the KL Cherokee fix but I think that FCA-Jeep engineering has to get involved. It goes beyond the stage of customer service placating a few unhappy customers. This may be an issue of what-was-sold vs what-you-got. But enough said on that.

Back in the early days of the KL wobble issue a few of us owners were 'kicking around' the idea of adding an aftermarket hydraulic steering stabilizer. None were available for the KL and we'd heard that there was just no way to adapt one. That idea may or may not be a stop-gap measure for the GC and, also the Durango which is in the same platform.

(PS: Wasn't this the same guy who told you that the Jeep wasn't at fault and it had to do with the (non-existent) "some brake controllers do not have the required power" and had told someone else about "insufficient power" as well?)

mhudson 10-04-2017 12:13 PM

Yep that's him! I was hoping though!
We looked at the idea of a stabilizer but there's just no room for one.

opbart1 10-11-2017 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpasetto (Post 3826056)
You are welcome. Many dealers are not familiar with towing vehicles behind motorhomes, may not realize what the "kit" is supposed to do.

Sorry to 'hijack' this Grand Cherokee thread with these posts but if the GC fix is a similar wiring harness one you all will have the same thing.



Since I posted to this thread about my Cherokee issue wanted to share resolution. Went to dealer and had install verified, all good that they could tell. As I have a power issue running my BreakBuddy thought I would check to see if using an extra battery tied in would help, it did. EPS was active with set up when I plugged my battery for the BreakBuddy into the cig plug of the Cherokee. Not sure why but at least figured out the cause. Good luck to all with the GCs

pixelpro 03-28-2018 12:51 PM

So still no updates on this issue? I just bought a 2017 GC Trailhawk with the intent of towing behind my DP and watched the death wobble video. No way am I risking flipping both brand new vehicles and probably dying.

rpasetto 03-28-2018 03:49 PM

Just learned that recent Jeep Cherokee owners have been told that the Tow Harness is "undergoing redesign", none available for the Cherokee (unless you find a dealer with an old one around). Nonetheless the advertising is still assuring owners of the capability of these vehicles to be towed behind motorhomes. When checking the latest advertising for the Grand Cherokee and the new Cherokee.

For the Grand Cherokee, the page about "The available Quadra-Trac II® 4x4 System"...
"Neutral mode capability for available flat towing (8) behind a recreational vehicle." footnote (8) states:
"When properly equipped with the Mopar® Flat Tow Wiring Kit. See dealer for details."
The statement is at:
https://www.jeep.com/4x4.html#grandcherokee. Click on "Quadra-Trac II® 4x4 System" then select "Learn More" to see this.
For the Cherokee, the "The available Jeep® Active Drive II 4x4 System" ...
"... neutral mode enables available flat towing (8) behind an RV."
same footnote (8):
"When properly equipped with the Mopar® Flat Tow Wiring Kit. See dealer for details."
https://www.jeep.com/4x4.html#cherokee Click on "Jeep® Active Drive II 4x4 System"
So there it is, the current advertising clearly leads one to the dealer believing that they can buy a Jeep and set it up as a "towed". So Dealer sales sees the "Mopar® Flat Tow Wiring Kit" will enable the buyer to use it as a towed... then, after the fact, dealer service finds said kit is just not available. There's a word for this and it ain't "JEEP".

lass 03-28-2018 05:59 PM

rpasetto. An update for all.

The revised Cherokee flat tow harness was released about 2 weeks ago and at least one owner of the 2019 Overland claims that his harness was actually installed at the factory. His dealer was going to do the installation but they found that it was already there. We’re waiting for his confirmation after towing.

You’re correct about the learn more tab on line and if you look closely the towing information is listed for all Jeep models including the new Wrangler JL.

As for the Grand Cherokee, I received a call from my contact at Jeep corporate and was advised that engineering is working on 2 possible solutions but there is no ETA. So going forward I would not expect to see a solution for at least the next 6 months. Remember that the wobble was first reported in October of 2016.

In addition to the names that I accumulated from the forum, John Johnston at FMCA has received another 20 owners who have reported the wobble. The saga continues.

Las

rpasetto 03-28-2018 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lass (Post 4108807)
rpasetto. An update for all.

The revised Cherokee flat tow harness was released about 2 weeks ago and at least one owner of the 2019 Overland claims that his harness was actually installed at the factory. His dealer was going to do the installation but they found that it was already there. We’re waiting for his confirmation after towing.

You’re correct about the learn more tab on line and if you look closely the towing information is listed for all Jeep models including the new Wrangler JL.

As for the Grand Cherokee, I received a call from my contact at Jeep corporate and was advised that engineering is working on 2 possible solutions but there is no ETA. So going forward I would not expect to see a solution for at least the next 6 months. Remember that the wobble was first reported in October of 2016.

In addition to the names that I accumulated from the forum, John Johnston at FMCA has received another 20 owners who have reported the wobble. The saga continues.

Las

Interesting to hear about the new Cherokee harness. On a Cherokee forum to which I belong, there have been many new owners posting that they are not able to get the harness, quite a few withing the last two weeks. It does seem contradictory that no FCA or Jeep representative has made an announcement of a revised Cherokee flat tow harness. I would think that the Jeep representatives on one of these forums would be really quick to announce such good news. Is there a name associated with that announcement?

Hmf23 03-29-2018 05:17 PM

While I've been watching this thread closely and waiting for the tow harness wiring to be made available we still purchased a 2018 GC Summit. Fully set it up and planned to tow and take it easy as we start using it as a Toad. Reading it seems most incidents were with slow speed tight turns and uneven surfaces, so I'm really watching whenever those may exist. Currently on a week long trip to Disneyland, we l ft last Friday with 3 days in Santa Cruz and then they Disneyland. Not one issue yet from Sac to Santa Cruz and the. South to Anaheim, tomorrow we make our way home. So I'm not saying the issue does or doesn't not exist just saying so far so good without any harness installed that I may know of.


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