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-   -   New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/new-plan-jeep-grand-cherokee-eps-wobble-360864.html)

rpasetto 07-10-2018 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl (Post 4283320)
I'm sorry but I think this Death Wobble thing is because those that tow don't have their toad setup properly.
I have towed mine across country and back thru various terrains without issue. But I have mine setup properly; the MH does not lift the front end of the Toad, there is no clunking/sway In the tow bar and my tow bar system (Roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front of the car to complete the triangle and ensure the Toad frame does not flex.

And just to let you know the facts, it's NOT just Jeeps, its any car or truck with an EPS. The main reason why you seem only hear about it with Jeeps is because of their popularity.

You're on-target about the EPS. With servos controlling the steering there's no damping of vibrations which may set up within the steering system. The potential vibration is there even when the EPS equipped Jeep is driving down the road, which is why Jeep/FCA has (patented) software in the EPS computer to counter the wobble. The wobble is inherent in the natural low-frequency resonance of the steering components. It is not a function of the number or depth/height of the ruts/bumps but rather the timing.

With tighter towbar connections that vibration (if it occurs) will be felt more strongly in the MH; with looser connections, the rattle will be louder.

mhudson 07-10-2018 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl (Post 4283320)
I'm sorry but I think this Death Wobble thing is because those that tow don't have their toad setup properly.
I have towed mine across country and back thru various terrains without issue. But I have mine setup properly; the MH does not lift the front end of the Toad, there is no clunking/sway In the tow bar and my tow bar system (Roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front of the car to complete the triangle and ensure the Toad frame does not flex.

And just to let you know the facts, it's NOT just Jeeps, its any car or truck with an EPS. The main reason why you seem only hear about it with Jeeps is because of their popularity.



My Motorhome did not lift the front of the toad. There was no clunking/sway in the towbar. My towbar system (roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front to complete the triangle to assure the toad frame didnít flex. Towbar system at ride height was level within less than 1 inch. Please tell me what I could have done different? Moot point now as my problem is fixed. Jeep is gone. I guess Iím just lucky. Donít seem to have the problem with any other vehicle Iíve towed in the past or am presently towing. Mustíve been my setup.

rpasetto 07-10-2018 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhudson (Post 4284029)
My Motorhome did not lift the front of the toad. There was no clunking/sway in the towbar. My towbar system (roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front to complete the triangle to assure the toad frame didnít flex. Towbar system at ride height was level within less than 1 inch. Please tell me what I could have done different? Moot point now as my problem is fixed. Jeep is gone. I guess Iím just lucky. Donít seem to have the problem with any other vehicle Iíve towed in the past or am presently towing. Mustíve been my setup.

You did nothing wrong... sadly many have had similar circumstances, due to the road conditions, speed, etc. not the towbar or frame. Some just cannot/will not understand that the wobble tendency is in the steering system, which would happen driving down the road if the EPS was off. (do not try this at home kiddies).

Big_Boy 07-10-2018 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl (Post 4283320)
I'm sorry but I think this Death Wobble thing is because those that tow don't have their toad setup properly.
I have towed mine across country and back thru various terrains without issue. But I have mine setup properly; the MH does not lift the front end of the Toad, there is no clunking/sway In the tow bar and my tow bar system (Roadmaster) has the cross brace across the front of the car to complete the triangle and ensure the Toad frame does not flex.

And just to let you know the facts, it's NOT just Jeeps, its any car or truck with an EPS. The main reason why you seem only hear about it with Jeeps is because of their popularity.

I was thinking like you until it happened to me. I like to think my tow setup is 'perfect'. I think my tow bar is very close to level, with the front maybe 1/2" below the baseplate connections at the toad. It is a Blue Ox system that has now been used on 3 toads ('03 CR-V, '11 CR-V, and now '16 JGC). I've probably got 20K on this tow bar and various baseplates.

In summary, it is not the tow set-up. It is the vehicle. Specifically, it is ANY toad with ELECTRIC POWER STEERING

SuperGewl 07-11-2018 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Boy (Post 4285074)
I was thinking like you until it happened to me. I like to think my tow setup is 'perfect'. I think my tow bar is very close to level, with the front maybe 1/2" below the baseplate connections at the toad. It is a Blue Ox system that has now been used on 3 toads ('03 CR-V, '11 CR-V, and now '16 JGC). I've probably got 20K on this tow bar and various baseplates.

In summary, it is not the tow set-up. It is the vehicle. Specifically, it is ANY toad with ELECTRIC POWER STEERING

OK, off subject, how do you like your Eco Diesel? I have the Ram Eco Diesel and love it. I would only give it up for a Ram 3500 or maybe a Grand Cherokee Eco diesel.

Now back to subject.
I can say that what I have seen with the DP's is that most forget that the ride height of a DP is not set when you start it up. You have Air Bags that must inflate and then they change when getting down the road, thus the height can be different from when you hook up.
There is a difference between the DP's and the gassers because they don't have airbags to inflate normally.

Big_Boy 07-12-2018 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl (Post 4285203)
OK, off subject, how do you like your Eco Diesel? I have the Ram Eco Diesel and love it. I would only give it up for a Ram 3500 or maybe a Grand Cherokee Eco diesel.

Now back to subject.
I can say that what I have seen with the DP's is that most forget that the ride height of a DP is not set when you start it up. You have Air Bags that must inflate and then they change when getting down the road, thus the height can be different from when you hook up.
There is a difference between the DP's and the gassers because they don't have airbags to inflate normally.

The JGC EcoDiesel is fantastic. Kind of heavy (about 5400 lb), but you would not know it when driving it. It is quick off the line and still very efficient. I routinely hand-calculate 20 - 25 mpg running around town. On a long highway trip, I averaged 28 mpg.

Back to subject at hand. You seem to have an erroneous notion that the tow setup is the root cause of the EPS ('16 and later) Jeep Grand Cherokee tow problem. It's a worthy question but it just isn't true in my case. I am very careful to have level tow bars when the air bags are inflated. I only measure my tow bar in "on the road" configuration.

Having said that, there definitely is a relationship between outside disturbance and the "wobble". The fact of the matter is that the EPS Jeeps do not have enough inherent damping in the steering system to keep this from happening under all scenarios. Having a poor tow setup (bar higher in front would be one example) would contribute to 'disturb' the tow setup even more, but it is not the root cause of 'wobble'.

rpasetto 07-12-2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Boy (Post 4287334)
The JGC EcoDiesel is fantastic. Kind of heavy (about 5400 lb), but you would not know it when driving it. It is quick off the line and still very efficient. I routinely hand-calculate 20 - 25 mpg running around town. On a long highway trip, I averaged 28 mpg.

Back to subject at hand. You seem to have an erroneous notion that the tow setup is the root cause of the EPS ('16 and later) Jeep Grand Cherokee tow problem. It's a worthy question but it just isn't true in my case. I am very careful to have level tow bars when the air bags are inflated. I only measure my tow bar in "on the road" configuration.

Having said that, there definitely is a relationship between outside disturbance and the "wobble". The fact of the matter is that the EPS Jeeps do not have enough inherent damping in the steering system to keep this from happening under all scenarios. Having a poor tow setup (bar higher in front would be one example) would contribute to 'disturb' the tow setup even more, but it is not the root cause of 'wobble'.

Here's a link to the patent which Chrysler Group LLC filed with the US Patent Office on August 16, 2010 and received Sept 9, 2014 for "Active shimmy mitigation". Simply put, they've known for over eight years about the problem and developed this method of stopping it. The patented methodology does not only apply to vehicles being towed but to any circumstance where the wheels are turning and the system detects a vibration. Of course to stop the vibration the system must be turned on. Hopefully a thorough read of the referenced document will put an end to theories about towbars, etc.


United States Patent: 8831854

lass 07-12-2018 10:18 AM

Folks. There are 3 of us trying to maintain contact with Jeep but itís been 1 1/2 years since the wobble was first reported and we still do not have any time frame for a solution.

I went to ceoemail.com and found the contact info for the Jeep CEO. May be time to start a writing campaign.

mike.manley@fcagroup.com

Itís up to you

DrDaveMA 07-13-2018 09:57 PM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
I think it is interesting, I purchased our 2016 JGC in July, of Ď16. We have towed in about 20K miles, including a trip from Cape Cod to,LA for the Rose Parade and a slow return through Texas. We also went from Cape Cod to Líanse de Meadows, Newfoundland and numerous trips under 5k miles. We have hit All conditions of roads from dirt to interstate. Hopefully I will not jinx myself, but we have not had an incident of the death wobble. I do have a level install after the air bags are inflated, with a Roadmaster tow bar. What I am sure of is that no one is has found the root cause. Maybe I have been lucky and not hit the magic combination of circumstances, so when the true root cause is found I will implement it.

Lass, keep up the good work.

rpasetto 07-22-2018 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDaveMA (Post 4290214)
I think it is interesting, I purchased our 2016 JGC in July, of Ď16. We have towed in about 20K miles, including a trip from Cape Cod to,LA for the Rose Parade and a slow return through Texas. We also went from Cape Cod to Líanse de Meadows, Newfoundland and numerous trips under 5k miles. We have hit All conditions of roads from dirt to interstate. Hopefully I will not jinx myself, but we have not had an incident of the death wobble. I do have a level install after the air bags are inflated, with a Roadmaster tow bar. What I am sure of is that no one is has found the root cause. Maybe I have been lucky and not hit the magic combination of circumstances, so when the true root cause is found I will implement it.

Lass, keep up the good work.

The root cause was found sometime on or before Aug 16 2010. Just read the FCA patent in the link I posted a few days ago. Certainly they had reason to do all this.

lass 07-22-2018 06:09 AM

New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble
 
Back to the Grand Cherokee wobble that we have been discussing for the past year. After 50 email and phone calls to FCA, our contacts have gone cold. I have recently found that the only way to get a response is to send an email directly to the Jeep CEO.

So if anyone is still concerned about the wobble and wants to get involved, you can send a summary of your problem direct to the email below.

mike.manley@fcagroup.com

LostDutchman 07-22-2018 06:19 AM

I'm a believer. 2018 Grand Cherokee Summit, Blue Ox Avail, properly set-up. First time at 8100 miles towing, back in May, 2018, just making a normal right turn at an intersection in Las Vegas, no issues with the roadway. Second time 3 days later, making a right turn out of a Flying J, uneven road surfaces. Twice in the same week. Has not happened since. Jeep Case # 34069844. Letter pretty much stated to bad - not a known issue with Jeep.

rpasetto 07-22-2018 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostDutchman (Post 4304905)
I'm a believer. 2018 Grand Cherokee Summit, Blue Ox Avail, properly set-up. First time at 8100 miles towing, back in May, 2018, just making a normal right turn at an intersection in Las Vegas, no issues with the roadway. Second time 3 days later, making a right turn out of a Flying J, uneven road surfaces. Twice in the same week. Has not happened since. Jeep Case # 34069844. Letter pretty much stated to bad - not a known issue with Jeep.

This pretty much sounds like a total stonewall approach. Does this sound like they are saying the 2018 Grand Cherokee has no wobble issue while being towed? Interesting as they're saying the same about the 2019 Cherokee.

lass 07-22-2018 05:14 PM

Itís been a stonewall since day 1 and Jeep has never admitted that the GC has a problem.

We can also forget about the Jeep CEOís email address that posted previously. He was promoted to run the entire FCA Corp and will most likely be moving to Italy.


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