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skypilot_1 02-20-2019 05:21 PM

Last-ditch effort to pass Blue Water Navy bill fails in Senate
 
https://www.stripes.com/news/veteran...enate-1.560126

Old-Biscuit 02-20-2019 11:38 PM

Best I NOT comment as it would be 'political'


**#&#*#(%&*

akeagle 02-20-2019 11:43 PM

Disappointing. And I'm not Navy.

Traildust 02-21-2019 04:35 PM

I am not surprised at all. There are some of us who were exposed to other chemicals that were just as bad like methyl ethyl ketone, dry cleaning solvent and all make of fuels and oils. I guess some of it came with the job but one I was exposed to back then was a smoke abatement compound that I am still trying to get the Navy to admit that it ever even existed. We were warned that it was toxic but then it was put in the fuel of the old A7-A/B and if you were a mech like I was you got soaked in JP a lot.
Bill

a1albert 02-21-2019 11:22 PM

This old news, the bill was reintroduce in congress for this year. Federal Court case Procopio vs VA the court ruled in favor of Procopio and stated the the VA must include the Blue Water Navy that were within 12 NM of the coast of South Vietnam as the Agent Orange act was originally written. The Va May take this to the supreme court but has not done that as yet.

skypilot_1 02-22-2019 08:05 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.d3d29df20758

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...ew=closed#tabs

JohnH12 02-22-2019 12:59 PM

Their stated #1 reason for not passing it is the cost but that would be nowhere near the cost of healthcare for some others that would be too not-pc to mention here.

a1albert 02-22-2019 11:34 PM

https://cck-law.com/news/federal-cir...ater-navy-vets

Old-Biscuit 02-23-2019 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1albert (Post 4648383)


Thank-you for that link (Jan 2019) which is Fed Court Ruling after Congress lack of action (Dec 2018)


Now Congress will have to act....
Fed Court Decision ties their hands.

a1albert 02-26-2019 09:20 PM

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...box=1551203991

skypilot_1 06-26-2019 07:55 PM

Blue Water Navy Vietnam Veterans Act.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by skypilot_1 (Post 4644779)

After years of fighting to correct an injustice for disabled Vietnam veterans, DAV takes great pride in announcing that the president has signed in to law H.R. 299-the Blue Water Navy Vietnam Veterans Act.

Passage of this law is a pivotal victory for Vietnam veterans who have not only suffered for decades from illnesses and diseases linked to exposure to Agent Orange, but who also felt that their service and suffering had long gone unacknowledged by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

akeagle 06-27-2019 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skypilot_1 (Post 4838053)
After years of fighting to correct an injustice for disabled Vietnam veterans, DAV takes great pride in announcing that the president has signed in to law H.R. 299-the Blue Water Navy Vietnam Veterans Act.

Passage of this law is a pivotal victory for Vietnam veterans who have not only suffered for decades from illnesses and diseases linked to exposure to Agent Orange, but who also felt that their service and suffering had long gone unacknowledged by the Department of Veterans Affairs.


Hurray!!! Score one for the vets!

Melvo 06-27-2019 03:32 PM

WSJ story today said they are still trying to sort out who and how they will be affected.

JohnH12 06-28-2019 06:37 AM

So how do I find out if the USS Ranger operated in the listed areas during our '70 ~ '71 cruise?
Seems useless to go through the frustration of filing a claim, waiting for months if not longer, just to be denied because the logs don't show operations within the listed areas.

skypilot_1 06-28-2019 10:21 AM

They, VA will set the requirements one will have to meet to be eligible. Maybe in a while they will publish the ships and dates that are covered. But yes, you will have to file a claim. I'd be askin if the coverage will be retroactive. But your call.

Traildust 06-28-2019 03:09 PM

I was on the Oriskany 71 to 74 and I am pretty sure the Ranger was there during that period. I know it stayed tied up to the pier at Subic for about 6 months sometime around 72 to 73? We called it building 61. Someone sabotaged the gear box or something if I remember right.
Bill

skypilot_1 07-24-2019 01:37 PM

Justice is Served
 
https://www.ihelpveterans.org/blogs/..._subsrc=member

Old-Biscuit 07-24-2019 02:14 PM

A lawsuit was filed Monday against Department of Veterans Affairs Secretary Robert Wilkie over his decision to delay claims processing for tens of thousands of “Blue Water” Navy veterans until next year.


https://www.stripes.com/lawsuit-file...-vets-1.591432

powerboatr 07-24-2019 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit (Post 4879682)
A lawsuit was filed Monday against Department of Veterans Affairs Secretary Robert Wilkie over his decision to delay claims processing for tens of thousands of “Blue Water” Navy veterans until next year.


https://www.stripes.com/lawsuit-file...-vets-1.591432




i when i read this last week, i went nuts as well.
i burned up a few phone lines. made zero sense to file now and not get results until next year. this has been a hot topic for years. glad its finally getting the move on.

JohnH12 07-25-2019 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerboatr (Post 4879758)
i when i read this last week, i went nuts as well.
i burned up a few phone lines. made zero sense to file now and not get results until next year. this has been a hot topic for years. glad its finally getting the move on.

Any disability money would be paid retroactive to the date filed.

Old-Biscuit 07-25-2019 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnH12 (Post 4880532)
Any disability money would be paid retroactive to the date filed.


That is one of the issues that is NOT clear.
Secretary of Veterans Affairs has delayed all Blue Water Navy AO Claims processing until AFTER Jan 1, 2020..


Reading the actual HR Bill it is clear as mud what/how that affects date used to establish claim and therefore disability date.


WesPac Jan-Aug 1973 Vietnam Waters
Diagnosed with Diabetes Mellitus Type 2 on July 31, 2018
Submitted AO Claim July 22, 2019
Claims delayed until Jan 1, 2020


SO what should be my 'disability' date?
1973....Vietnam Waters
2018....Diagnosis
2019....File Claim
2020....Delay date


July 22, 2019 when I filed claim....date of filing.
BUT will that now be Jan 1, 2020 due to Secretary of Veterans Affairs delaying tactics??????

a1albert 07-25-2019 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit (Post 4880887)
That is one of the issues that is NOT clear.
Secretary of Veterans Affairs has delayed all Blue Water Navy AO Claims processing until AFTER Jan 1, 2020..


Reading the actual HR Bill it is clear as mud what/how that affects date used to establish claim and therefore disability date.


WesPac Jan-Aug 1973 Vietnam Waters
Diagnosed with Diabetes Mellitus Type 2 on July 31, 2018
Submitted AO Claim July 22, 2019
Claims delayed until Jan 1, 2020


SO what should be my 'disability' date?
1973....Vietnam Waters
2018....Diagnosis
2019....File Claim
2020....Delay date


July 22, 2019 when I filed claim....date of filing.
BUT will that now be Jan 1, 2020 due to Secretary of Veterans Affairs delaying tactics??????

As for as disability pay it should go back two years prior to filling your claim but not sure on an illness that developed later may go back to the first sign of illness or two years which ever is less, if you are using a VSO talk to them.

Old-Biscuit 07-26-2019 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1albert (Post 4882035)
As for as disability pay it should go back two years prior to filling your claim but not sure on an illness that developed later may go back to the first sign of illness or two years which ever is less, if you are using a VSO talk to them.


Per VA.GOV/Disability

If we get your claim more than 1 year after your separation from active service, the effective date is the date we got your claim or when you first got your illness or injury—whichever is later.

Change in Law or VA Regulation:
If we get your claim within one year of a law or regulation changing, the effective date may be the date the law or regulation changed.

Traildust 07-26-2019 12:23 AM

I guess I have to ask this but just how do I file a claim. The reason I ask is that I retired in 1991 and have never used or had any contact with the VA. I don't have any disabilities by the VA but do have type 2 diabetes and some other things I've always felt were military related. I was on the flight deck of the Oriskany for three Golf of Tonkin WestPac cruises except for the 10 months they dumped me in Da Nang Republic Of.
Bill

Old-Biscuit 07-26-2019 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traildust (Post 4882048)
I guess I have to ask this but just how do I file a claim. The reason I ask is that I retired in 1991 and have never used or had any contact with the VA. I don't have any disabilities by the VA but do have type 2 diabetes and some other things I've always felt were military related. I was on the flight deck of the Oriskany for three Golf of Tonkin WestPac cruises except for the 10 months they dumped me in Da Nang Republic Of.
Bill


Contact local American Legions, VFW or a VA Clinic/Medical Center etc
Ask if they have a VSO (Veterans Service Officer).


You SHOULD file a claim....
VSO can help you get needed info/documents and file claim

Traildust 07-26-2019 01:42 PM

Much Thanks Old Biscuit. :)
Bill

Stano 08-04-2019 08:08 AM

I use the DAV office at Fort Custer near Battle Creek, Michigan!

Stano :D

Traildust 08-21-2019 06:04 PM

Filed m intent to claim disability and started gathering dd214's and everything I held on to over the years decided to go with a VSO. I finally got set up with a local VSO here. He seems to put more emphasis on my in country times than the Blue Water Law. Big problem for me is actually proving when and how long I was there, waiting for records now.
Bill

JohnH12 08-22-2019 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traildust (Post 4921008)
Filed m intent to claim disability and started gathering dd214's and everything I held on to over the years decided to go with a VSO. I finally got set up with a local VSO here. He seems to put more emphasis on my in country times than the Blue Water Law. Big problem for me is actually proving when and how long I was there, waiting for records now.
Bill

Always remember that you are trying to prove something to a person who probably wasn't even alive during the Vietnam era or was too young to remember. They have no concept of the realities of military life in an operational arena.
They denied my claim because I couldn't prove that I was launched off the Ranger to repair an aircraft that had diverted to some remote airfield in country.
They said the deck logs didn't have my name on any manifest. I can't count the number of times some plane captain filled out an "A" sheet that had wrong or missing names on it. Besides that there was no retention requirement for that "A" sheet after the plane landed.
When the Chief says "Get your tools and get on that helo." you just do it.
Even the pictures of us wearing nothing but shorts and boots while washing planes that had flown through known agent orange areas held no weight.
The bureaucrats are way to powerful and, just like insurance claims agents, are taught to say "NO".

Traildust 08-24-2019 02:06 AM

JohnH12 - I had that exact experience happen to me a few times but I do remember a few times that I had orders. My problem while in Danang was I was in VA-153 attached to CVW-19's beach det off the Oriskany living in VQ1's barracks?? Could have been VQ2 cannot remember now.
Bill

Stano 08-26-2019 06:50 PM

My brother who was in the Air Force is having the same problem as you guys mentioned above. He worked on aircraft out of Guam and Thailand that he feels was tainted with AO!

Stano :D

skypilot_1 08-27-2019 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stano (Post 4928257)
My brother who was in the Air Force is having the same problem as you guys mentioned above. He worked on aircraft out of Guam and Thailand that he feels was tainted with AO!

Stano :D

Its not just "any aircraft". The other services also used other types of aircraft to spray defoliant as well. Hell, I flew some of them. Several of those planes that were used for spraying in-country returned to U.S. units after the operation ceased in Nam. The VA AO bill covers some today. But like everything else, the burden of proof is on the vet.

These links are related info on OP Ranch Hand:

https://cck-law.com/blog/did-c-123-a...e-vietnam-war/

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-diseases.html

Traildust 09-19-2019 02:07 PM

Finally got my claim filed yesterday 9/18/19 so now I am in a wait and see how the VA decides. One point of interest is that my claim was filed strictly on my in country time as my VSO told me no Carriers are on the Bluewater list. I find that little tidbit interesting, that eliminates a bunch of possible claims doesn't it.
Bill

skypilot_1 09-19-2019 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traildust (Post 4963518)
Finally got my claim filed yesterday 9/18/19 so now I am in a wait and see how the VA decides. One point of interest is that my claim was filed strictly on my in country time as my VSO told me no Carriers are on the Bluewater list. I find that little tidbit interesting, that eliminates a bunch of possible claims doesn't it.
Bill


TD,
Which Agent Orange presumptive conditions are you filing for ?
By having been "in-country" why would you wait for the Blue Water bill to file ?

Traildust 09-20-2019 12:53 AM

My presumptives are diabetes mellitus type 2, ischemic heart disease and peripheral neuropathy that's the main ones. I also have hearing loss and tinnitus both sides but that was caused from working on military aircraft for over 21 years active duty and 14 more as a Navair Tech. Rep.
Why did I wait so long, funny my VSO asked the same thing, I really never thought that much about it to tell you the truth. I always felt I didn't really earn it. I was in DaNang and Tan Son Nhut AFB quiet a bit but was never outside of the wire so to speak. I always felt that the guys that where out on patrols and seeing real combat are the ones that earned it. This Bluewater Navy thing sort of triggered me to see what is available as I am getting older and started thinking about my wife more I guess. I did spend a lot of time on the Oriskany drinking the polluted water but I always thought it was the JP-5.
Bill

Stano 09-20-2019 07:46 AM

Better late than never as they say! I started filing/applying right after I retired from my civilian job at age 62 which was 10 years ago. Started at 30% then reapplied 2 years ago and moved up to 100%.

JohnH12 09-20-2019 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traildust (Post 4963518)
Finally got my claim filed yesterday 9/18/19 so now I am in a wait and see how the VA decides. One point of interest is that my claim was filed strictly on my in country time as my VSO told me no Carriers are on the Bluewater list. I find that little tidbit interesting, that eliminates a bunch of possible claims doesn't it.
Bill

Where is this Blue Water List? Is it public or only for those who know the secret handshake?
All I've seen is a very confusing list of lat/longs that is worthless with your ship's navigation logs.

skypilot_1 09-20-2019 10:38 AM

Just curious. How did your ship state its geographic position if not using Lat & Long. INS, ANS, GPS (not around then) or LORAN ?
I would think you tell the VA what ship and dates, and they'll tell you if you scored. :popcorn:

Traildust 09-20-2019 03:44 PM

That ship list is a elusive thing. I've never really saw it even though I've looked for it all over the place. I did ask my VSO for it but nothing really came of it as we always seemed to get side tracked. I guess the basic rule was your ship had to come within 12 nautical miles of certain areas along the coast of Vietnam?? I know there were times on the Oriskany we got in pretty close at times but standing on the flight deck who am I to know :rolleyes: I am sure there are ship's logs somewhere that should show various courses the ship took during it's time in the Tonkin Gulf.
Bill

Stano 09-20-2019 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traildust (Post 4964982)
That ship list is a elusive thing. I've never really saw it even though I've looked for it all over the place. I did ask my VSO for it but nothing really came of it as we always seemed to get side tracked. I guess the basic rule was your ship had to come within 12 nautical miles of certain areas along the coast of Vietnam?? I know there were times on the Oriskany we got in pretty close at times but standing on the flight deck who am I to know :rolleyes: I am sure there are ship's logs somewhere that should show various courses the ship took during it's time in the Tonkin Gulf.
Bill

Goggle; Navy Ships in Vietnam Waters. I just saw the list, but don't know how to forward it!

Stano :D

powerboatr 09-20-2019 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stano (Post 4964997)
Goggle; Navy Ships in Vietnam Waters. I just saw the list, but don't know how to forward it!

Stano :D

and once you have the name and dates, you can petition the navy to provide deck logs that prove dates and times.


remember chernobyl? i have logs of the USS America when we got clouded.

Traildust 09-20-2019 04:48 PM

Thanks Stano, now I found the list but still no Carriers on it. All the Carriers back then were designated CVA except for Enterprise she was the only CVN.
I was also exposed to asbestos on the Oriskany also.
Bill

skypilot_1 09-20-2019 06:35 PM

I had the honor of flyin off her deck in 64. USS Enterprise (CVN-65), formerly CVA-65 and also CVAN-65 for a time.


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