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KD4XR 04-20-2019 03:29 PM

2020 Wayfarer 25RW
 
We're taking delivery of a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW on 4/23/19. Downsizing from 40' DP. While unloading the DP and the towbar, I remembered that I didn't ask about a toad.

Is that rig capable of towing a 2014 Honda CRV?

UPDATE : Spoke with the dealer and they said yes.

Travelino 04-20-2019 08:48 PM

Congratulations, Jerry and Susie.


We have a 2020 RW on order, likely will get it by the end of May or beginning of June. Would be real interested in hearing from you on your first impressions after you get it. Don't forget this forum and share with us your experiences.


The Wayfarer is rated to tow 4200 pounds, but be careful not ot exceed GVWR and GCWR. You should be more than fine with the CRV. Also would be interesting to hear how you find the RW and able to adjust with less space versus your 40 footer. We had a 40 footer many years ago when we full timed, so at first thought the Wayfarer was way too small, but upon second look, thought abut it more seriously. Main advantage for us, is smaller and easier to drive, and my wife will drive it, a big plus for us. We started to think in terms of less space and carrying capacity and thought about where we woule put what we really needed and leave out extras that are not really needed. So your input coming from a larger coach would be greatly appreciated. Happy travels.

KD4XR 04-20-2019 09:08 PM

I'm sorry to say that we cancelled the deal. I love everything about the Wayfarer RW except the cargo capacity. The cargo capacity of 672 pounds just isn't adequate for our needs. A full tank of water in the RW is 317 pounds. Our combined occupant weight is 325 pounds. That leaves 30 pounds for food, clothing, and everything else. I don't see how anyone can make that work out.

luvlabs 04-21-2019 09:31 AM

The low OCCC of the Wayfarer has been Tiffin's problem since day one. I'm glad you discovered that before you completed the purchase. Other manufacturer's do a much better job of building light on the Sprinter chassis. Take a look at the Winnebago View/Navion and the new Vito/Porto models for some examples on how to build successfully on the Sprinter chassis.

kenyaloo 04-21-2019 11:14 AM

I am shopping for my first RV and am very interested in the Tiffin Wayfarer, except for the CCC problem and the fridge.

Can anyone comment on how the low CCC affects you, if at all?

And looking for comments on the fridge. As I understand it, this is not a compression fridge and does not function with alternate sources of power, as with the Winnebago View fridge.

Thanks!

MarkMaxPayne 04-21-2019 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenyaloo (Post 4738059)
I am shopping for my first RV and am very interested in the Tiffin Wayfarer, except for the CCC problem and the fridge.

Can anyone comment on how the low CCC affects you, if at all?

And looking for comments on the fridge. As I understand it, this is not a compression fridge and does not function with alternate sources of power, as with the Winnebago View fridge.

Thanks!

One day someone will have to check the IP addresses of all the Tiffin OCCC posts and see how many come from Indiana. :whistling:

I have a 2018 Tiffin Wayfarer 24BW, which appears to be the heaviest of the lot. I haven't had weight issues as I don't pack my rig with tons of stuff. I've also trimmed weight by upgrading to lithium batteries, which have lots of other upsides.

Can you find a competing Sprinter-based rig with higher OCCC? Sure. Can you also find a rig with much lower build quality under the auspice of reduced weight? Yep. I just watched a video on YouTube a couple of days ago where Creativity RV got sick and tired with warranty repair quality issues with her Unity and upgraded to a Tiffin. She then proceeded to hunker down in her new Tiifin Wayferer during the recent snow cyclone with 80 MPH+ winds hitting the rig. My local dealer parks his Class Cs next to each other and the construction and build quality differences are so apparent the Wayfarers almost sell themselves. Lastly, I watched my rig get built at the factory for 3 days and checked out the competing rigs they rolled in next to their production line to give to their employees a looksee and good laugh.

As for the fridge mine works on 12V DC, 110V AC, and propane. It automatically switches as needed.

I'm glad I bought the Wayfarer and would highly recommend it. I recommend touring the model with the floor plan you like and competitors while taking notes and photos of materials used, construction methods, fit and finish. Also check out the slides and imagine all the leaks you won't have and the caulking you won't have to do with Tiffin's seemless slides.

Best,
-Mark

kenyaloo 04-22-2019 08:14 AM

Thanks Mark!

By the way, we are in B.C., Canada and Portland isn't too far away. The Wayfarer is not available in Canada so we'll have to come south to even test drive one. Can you recommend your dealer please?

SSTraveler 04-22-2019 08:23 AM

You should consider a Leisure Travel Van Unity, https://leisurevans.com/unity/, high quality, great outside storage and much higher OCC than a Tiffin. They are made in Canada and there is a dealer in Langley, BC, Traveland RV Supercentre. I've had my Unity for 5 years and love it.

luvlabs 04-22-2019 09:17 AM

I know that Mark loves his low OCCC Wayfarer but I rejected the Wayfarer for the simple reason that it is unusable to anyone that wants to do some serious travelling - and I am a former Tiffin owner (Phaeton and Allegro).

Our Navion has proven to be better engineered and finished than the Wayfarer while still retaining a practical OCCC. Why? Winnebago has been building on the Sprinter chassis for over 10 years and knows how to build light without building cheap. They also build more than half of the Sprinter based motorhomes.

Not sure what Mark's Indiana quip has to do with anything. Winnebagos are built in Iowa but, like a lot of RVs, the rest are built in Indiana.

And refrigerators? Winnebago has gone with a compressor type frig across the range. There were a few hiccups we these in the first year but the brand has been changed and they are apparently working well.

MarkMaxPayne 04-22-2019 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenyaloo (Post 4739544)
Thanks Mark!

By the way, we are in B.C., Canada and Portland isn't too far away. The Wayfarer is not available in Canada so we'll have to come south to even test drive one. Can you recommend your dealer please?

Ordered mine through B. Young RV in PDX. Be sure to check out Creativity RV's YouTube posts on her quality issues before she recently upgraded to the Wayfarer. I took a 2,142 round trip over several steep grade west coast mountain passes towing a toad last summer with no issues. At the end of the day you need to pick what rig is best for you. Have fun in your search, good luck and enjoy!

Best,
-Mark

kenyaloo 04-29-2019 11:38 AM

thanks for your response.
did you have any quality problems with the unity?
anything you don't like about it?

MarkMaxPayne 04-29-2019 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenyaloo (Post 4750394)
thanks for your response.
did you have any quality problems with the unity?
anything you don't like about it?

I was referring to a full-time RVer who has a channel on YouTube. Her account is called Creativity RV. She had posted some videos about her Unity, quality and warranty experiences, and her recent trade-in for a Tiffin Wayfarer. Get what's best for you.

Best,
-Mark

SSTraveler 04-29-2019 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenyaloo (Post 4750394)
thanks for your response.
did you have any quality problems with the unity?
anything you don't like about it?

No and no. I've had my Unity Murphy Bed model for 5 years and love love love it. Like any RVs there is stuff that is going to break but with Unity the 2 year warranty that Leisure Travel Van provides gives you plenty of time to work the bugs out and Leisure will pay a Leisure dealer service center or reimburse you, if you take it anywhere else, for anything that needs repair/replacement in that 2 year time frames. They will also reimburse you for the parts if you want to do the repairs yourself. I don't know of any other Sprinter RV manufacturer that gives a 2 year warranty. The Mercedes Chassis has a 4 year 48,000 mile warranty so you can take it to any Mercedes Sprinter or Freightliner service center for repairs or maintenance. In 5 years I only had 2 Mercedes issues and they were taken care of under warranty. You really can't go wrong with a Le8sure and they hold the resale value better than any others. Check out this site to learn more, https://sprinter-source.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=193.

kenyaloo 05-17-2019 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSTraveler (Post 4750786)
No and no. I've had my Unity Murphy Bed model for 5 years and love love love it. Like any RVs there is stuff that is going to break but with Unity the 2 year warranty that Leisure Travel Van provides gives you plenty of time to work the bugs out and Leisure will pay a Leisure dealer service center or reimburse you, if you take it anywhere else, for anything that needs repair/replacement in that 2 year time frames. They will also reimburse you for the parts if you want to do the repairs yourself. I don't know of any other Sprinter RV manufacturer that gives a 2 year warranty. The Mercedes Chassis has a 4 year 48,000 mile warranty so you can take it to any Mercedes Sprinter or Freightliner service center for repairs or maintenance. In 5 years I only had 2 Mercedes issues and they were taken care of under warranty. You really can't go wrong with a Le8sure and they hold the resale value better than any others. Check out this site to learn more, https://sprinter-source.com/forum/fo...play.php?f=193.

hi ss,
thanks for your comments.
we are, in fact, very seriously considering the Unity.
i am looking for advice about making an offer on one.
might you be up for discussing this?

f14av8r 05-24-2019 12:52 PM

My new 2020 Wayfarer RW
 
I took delivery last week of my 2020 Wayfarer RW. It's just me and the wife, no kids and we never intend to sleep more than two people. So, we went with the RW (murphy bed, rear bath) floorplan. We chose the theater seating and eliminated the over-cab bunk in favor of the entertainment / storage center.

We made the move from a 35' diesel pusher (Winnebago Journey) and it was an interesting transition to say the least. I was amazed at the amount of stuff we'd be carrying around in the Journey. There was no way most of that was going in the Wayfarer. This was obviously a downsize and we were prepared for the changes that would be required. Our main objectives were:
- Find a coach that the wife was comfortable driving.
- Eliminate the requirement to tow a vehicle.
- Improve our fuel mileage
- Improve the comfort, safety and convenience level of the driving experience.
- Strongly prefer a diesel coach and diesel generator
- Preserve our dry camping ability
- Preserve our one bed experience. We accepted a Queen but the twin / sleep separately options were out.
- Accept the fact we'll cook less and eat out more. Frankly, we did that anyway.
- Minimize the maintenance and cleaning tasks, inside and outside.
- Choose either a Tiffin or a Winnebago product. We didn't even consider anything else.

Here are my initial thoughts.
- The RW floorplan is a market winner. Winnebago has introduced a similar murphy bed / rear bath plan for the 2020 View and I predict it will be far and away the most popular model. The View doesn't offer theater seating up front though and that was a big plus for us.
- The ability to convert the over-cab bunk to a entertainment center / cabineted storage area was a big plus for us.
- The 2020 (actually 2019 for Mercedes) Mercedes chassis is awesome. The comfort, convenience and safety features are on par with any offered in the automotive market. That is hard to find in the motorhome world. Of course, all the manufacturers will benefit from this change so it's really not a determinate when choosing between the various manufacturers building on the Sprinter.
- Love the on-demand hot water heater with recirculation. We've looked at coaches with on-demand heaters before an always rejected them because of the lack of a true recirculation feature. There is nothing better in the motorhome environment, especially when dry camping, than getting your hot water instantaneously without having to run precious fresh water through the pipes.
- The electrical system is superb. I like the simplicity of operation but the complexity in the background. The solar / generator / inverter / shore combination work well together and make for a seemless experience. I'll probably move to lithium batteries when the originals reach their service life but for now, it's all good.
- I like the distribution of fresh, grey and black water across the RW tanks. I like the ability to gravity fill the fresh water tank. I like Tiffin's lowered sump / rotating outlet approach to dumping.
- The entertainment system, with it's HDTV antenna and WiFi Ranger are awesome.
- Storage, while limited, is well thought out. There is even a very small pass through storage area in the back.


Our issues so far:
- The front Cabinet Door hinges were loose
- Glue in the door hinge screw anchors
- Put the pulls in the middle of the door to minimize torque on the lower hinge
- Tie up all loose wires. We found several areas in the water / electrical bays where wires were hanging loose. Not acceptable
- Mount the level sensors properly. Our indicator system never shows zero and never shows full. I suspect that's because the sensors were not mounted properly.
- The Murphy Bed needs an additional travel lock. During our test drive, the salesman forgot to secure the bed properly and it came flying down in the first left turn. It damaged a drawer latch and the edge of the wood bed platform.j
- The Bathroom door needs a travel latch and a lock for privacy.
- The shower skylight needs a shade, at least for storage to prevent yellowing of the plastic enclosure.
- The steel wheels use simulators (hub caps)
- The simulators must be properly positioned or they will cut the valve stem when pushed into position (ask me how I know).

All in all, all our delivery issues have been very minor. Certainly less than when we took possession of the Journey nine years ago! It took us a full year to work out the kinks in that coach.

I highly recommend the 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer RW. The 2020 Winnebago View looks to be a strong competitor but isn't available on the dealers lots yet. Many dealers are offering great prices on 2019 Wayfarers and Views. Be careful! The change in the Sprinter chassis is very, very significant and you'll be buying old technology if you buy a 2019 Wayfarer or View!

Travelino 05-24-2019 09:36 PM

Randy, great report and well appreciated. Good luck with your new RW.



We pick up our new RW on Thursday. We're excited about it.


Just learned from a post on the Tiffin forums that the seats in the new Sprinters move forward when you try to recline them. I assume that is when they are in the driving position. The poster said that Tiffin is working with Mercedes to find a fix, as there isn't an obstruction behind the passenger seat. I am hoping it doesn't more foward too much, because I need to recline somewhat when I'm a passenger and need enough leg room to avoid knee problems. Have you found this to be a problem in your unit.

f14av8r 05-25-2019 06:53 AM

Seat Translating forward in Sprinter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelino (Post 4788836)
Randy, great report and well appreciated. Good luck with your new RW.



We pick up our new RW on Thursday. We're excited about it.


Just learned from a post on the Tiffin forums that the seats in the new Sprinters move forward when you try to recline them. I assume that is when they are in the driving position. The poster said that Tiffin is working with Mercedes to find a fix, as there isn't an obstruction behind the passenger seat. I am hoping it doesn't more foward too much, because I need to recline somewhat when I'm a passenger and need enough leg room to avoid knee problems. Have you found this to be a problem in your unit.


Yes, it is true that, if you have the seat adjusted towards the full rear travel point and then try and recline, the seat will move forward. I haven't checked to see if there is an obstruction that requires the translation forward but, as you indicated, it is probably a holdover from the basic Sprinter chassis with the rear cab wall.

No, I haven't found this to be a problem but I'm 5'9" so I don't need a lot of room. I can see how it might be an issue for larger people though.

It is probably some sort of software change that could be made so hopefully Tiffin will work with Mercedes to get it changed.

lisanorby 06-04-2019 10:54 AM

If anyone is looking for a Tiffin Wayfarer, I highly recommend Beaver Motorcoach Sales in Bend OR. WE drove there from Denver Co and were incredibly pleased with their price, service, and assistance. They spent 4 hours going through everything which was a huge help to a new motorhome buyer!

Travelino 06-04-2019 09:50 PM

We picked up our new 2020 RW on Thursday and stayed at the dealer till Saturday morning. We had a few things that needed fixing.



I did find the new Sprinter chassis with all its automation quite challenging. Just going over the coach and its systems is a lot to remember, then adding the new chassis, which in my opinion is not intuitive was a real challenge just to get some things to work or display. Since dealers haven't sold a lot of 2019 Sprinter chassis, plus Tiffin adding a lot of Mercedes options to them, there isn't a lot of expertise to help you get acquainted with it.


On the seat issue, we did find it to be a problem. When I'm in the passenger seat, it was uncomfortable. I have issues with my knees when they are bent too long and I was not able to straighten them out, unless the seat was in the bolt upright position. As has been mentioned, when you recline the seat, the seat moves forward in increments thinking that it needs the clearance behind it. There is no reason or interference in the Wayfarer. I hope they can make a change to this unnecessary movement. At one point, I tried to recline the seat further to see how far back it would recline. I never got it to recline too much, because the seat had moved so far forward, that it was about to jam my knees into the dash. I'm 5' 11" so not very tall, but it was a problem for me. I also have a back problem so I need to recline to relieve some back pain, and of course you can't do that much.


I was surprised that my wife also said the passenger seat was uncomfortable for her too, because she is only 5' 3"
Her main complaint was that it was too upright.


On the other hand, we both didn't have a problem with the driver's seat, even though it has the same characteristics. The leg room on the drivers side, is longer than the passenger side, so even for me, I was able to move my left foot just to the side of the brake pedal and get about full extension on my leg.


Since the seat controls are on the doors towards the front of the door, when you swivel the seats around, you don't have easy access to the seat adjustments. You either stretch your arm around or get up and lean over the seat to reach the seat controls. Really, if they could have only left the controls on the seat itself.



Oh, while I'm on the subject, I would prefer less of the new Sprinter features. The NAV/Radio system is a bit too much for me. Mercedes makes a big deal of warning you about not being distracted and then they go ahead and do just that. After driving for a while, maybe an hour, the darn thing talked and asked what we wanted to do. The message said that online support was not available. This was a distraction and we didn't know what triggered it or if something needed attention. We pushed the home button and it went back to the main page. We were not using the radio at all, it was within our first segment of driving it home. Later on in our trip, we found this happens over and over, like getting unwanted solicitation calls. One time, I yelled back at it when it asked what I wanted to do, and I told it to shut off. It seemed to work. We never figured out how to actually shut it off. I tried the radio once and never was able to shut that off, so we turned the volume to zero but still could hear it faintly. We have a lot of reading to do to figure this all out. Didn't see an old fashion off button..

Mr K. 06-06-2019 02:06 AM

Options and carry capacity
 
Need to memorize secret German passwords for new Sprinter.

1. Are there options on the new 2020 Wayfarers? Or all equipped the same?

2. How do those options affect the Occupant Carry Capacity?

3. There were opinions on this site that the new Mercedes chassis would have increased cargo capability. Did this not happen at all? Or are the upfitters just unaware and using old numbers?

4. Someone above reported that new Tiffin Sprinters might not have mirror or side cameras? Was this fixed?

luvlabs 06-06-2019 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K. (Post 4807019)
Need to memorize secret German passwords for new Sprinter.

1. Are there options on the new 2020 Wayfarers? Or all equipped the same?Check the Tiffin website. Wayfarer standard equipment and options are listed.

2. How do those options affect the Occupant Carry Capacity? Tiffin already has some of the lowest OCCC numbers in the industry. Most options add weight and that will lower the OCCC even further.

3. There were opinions on this site that the new Mercedes chassis would have increased cargo capability. Did this not happen at all? Or are the upfitters just unaware and using old numbers? The new Sprinter chassis has exactly the same specs as the previous chassis with regards to GVWR and GCWR. Upfitters seem to having problems with some of the "features" found on the new chassis, however.

4. Someone above reported that new Tiffin Sprinters might not have mirror or side cameras? Was this fixed? Sounds about right.
Camera systems proposed don't work with the Mercedes electronics. Not sure there is a resolution yet but it sounds like you would have to install an after market system if you want side view cameras.

Most people forget that Mercedes has to approve areas where the upfitter electronics communicate with the Sprinter chassis. Some manufacturers have found that some of the new chassis features don't work for their customers (seats for example) or with what the upfitter wants to add (cameras for example). It will get sorted out eventually.

f14av8r 06-06-2019 10:23 AM

Mercedes Seat Recline
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelino (Post 4805445)
We picked up our new 2020 RW on Thursday and stayed at the dealer till Saturday morning. We had a few things that needed fixing.


On the seat issue, we did find it to be a problem. When I'm in the passenger seat, it was uncomfortable. I have issues with my knees when they are bent too long and I was not able to straighten them out, unless the seat was in the bolt upright position. As has been mentioned, when you recline the seat, the seat moves forward in increments thinking that it needs the clearance behind it. There is no reason or interference in the Wayfarer. I hope they can make a change to this unnecessary movement. At one point, I tried to recline the seat further to see how far back it would recline. I never got it to recline too much, because the seat had moved so far forward, that it was about to jam my knees into the dash. I'm 5' 11" so not very tall, but it was a problem for me. I also have a back problem so I need to recline to relieve some back pain, and of course you can't do that much.


I was surprised that my wife also said the passenger seat was uncomfortable for her too, because she is only 5' 3"
Her main complaint was that it was too upright.


On the other hand, we both didn't have a problem with the driver's seat, even though it has the same characteristics. The leg room on the drivers side, is longer than the passenger side, so even for me, I was able to move my left foot just to the side of the brake pedal and get about full extension on my leg.

I spoke with Dan Phillips, Tiffin's Mercedes rep today. He says Mercedes is aware of the problem, has a fix in the works, and the reprogram for the seat recline / travel function should be available to dealers in a few weeks. This feature is necessary in the barebones chassis to keep the seat from pushing out the temporary back wall or whatever the up fitter put in its place. Obviously, it is unnecessary in our motorhomes.

Travelino 06-06-2019 05:36 PM

Interesting, I talked to Dan today too. He also pointed out that when sofware is updated, it looks at VIN number to determine type of vehicle. If the Sprinter is a passenger vehicle, then the seat doesn't move forward, but because our VINs indicate a work van, where there is no clearance behind the front seat, the seat then moves forward when reclined. He said they tried to fix the software, but couldn't so now its being handled by Germany. He also knows a lot of folks want that fixed and was confident that it would be soon. I also plan to keep in touch with him to find out when it is fixed and will post here when it is. Just hope the "fix" doesn't mess up something else.

copythat 07-14-2019 08:50 PM

The wife and I negotiated a great price for a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW with several factory installed options. We loved the looks of the coach and its many features. I then stumbled across this thread and saw the concerns about the cargo carrying capacity.

I asked the salesperson to send me a picture of the door sticker of the coach we picked out and the maximum capacity was 612 pounds. A full load of water is listed at 317 pounds, I weigh 205, my wife is 115 and the dog is 20. My question to the salesperson was what do we do about propane, food, clothes, etc.?

The salesperson called the Tiffin rep and he apparently told her that we had to decide on what quality of coach we wanted and he had never had anyone complain about storage in the 25RW. To be clear, I never complained about storage in the coach; there is plenty. However, the coach can't even be used for its intended purpose without overloading it and probably voiding the warranty. Needless to say, we backed out of the deal and are in an RV funk. :-(

Now what?

Looking4rv 07-14-2019 11:39 PM

First off it is a known issue with the Wayfarer and especially the RW due to the full slide.

I ordered one anyway. Due in August / special order.

I would encourage you to investigate further the weight saving ideas on the forums and FB Wayfarer groups.

I went to the factory and was very impressed with the staff and Trent Tiffin. Willing to to do substantial semi custom orders at very reasonable prices. I had several done.

I ordered mine with out the theater seats as I wanted a dinette anyway. That is substantial weight savings. I got what I wanted and not what I do not want. The key is not to get every option. That is what the dealers do and most do not have a clue how low the occc gets. The one you suggested above likely has every option, do you need them all? I expect mine to be about 750 lbs and I will run with a half tank of water.

The new safety components are far more important to me than than being near the weight limit. Look around out there and many, likely most class c's are over loaded. Use what you take and do not over pack. Do not walk away from Tiffin until you do more looking around.

luvlabs 07-15-2019 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copythat (Post 4864772)
The wife and I negotiated a great price for a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW with several factory installed options. We loved the looks of the coach and its many features. I then stumbled across this thread and saw the concerns about the cargo carrying capacity.

I asked the salesperson to send me a picture of the door sticker of the coach we picked out and the maximum capacity was 612 pounds. A full load of water is listed at 317 pounds, I weigh 205, my wife is 115 and the dog is 20. My question to the salesperson was what do we do about propane, food, clothes, etc.?

The salesperson called the Tiffin rep and he apparently told her that we had to decide on what quality of coach we wanted and he had never had anyone complain about storage in the 25RW. To be clear, I never complained about storage in the coach; there is plenty. However, the coach can't even be used for its intended purpose without overloading it and probably voiding the warranty. Needless to say, we backed out of the deal and are in an RV funk. :-(

Now what?

Start looking at Winnebago View/Navion models. We have found our Navion to be as nice as anything Tiffin has put out the door and it has an OCCC of 1100 lbs or so. Winnebago has far more engineering experience with the Sprinter chassis and knows how to build for maximum OCCC.

lisanorby 07-15-2019 10:18 AM

Wayfarer bed issue resolved (almost)!
 
Hi - I recently posted an issue with the Tiffin Wayfarer 25QW bed that folded in half and was unusable. Trent Tiffin was incredibly responsive and a warranty center replaced the bed and mattress with the version they used in the 2018 and will use in the 2020 models. It now folds up like a piano top when the slide is in and is very comfortable. The arm that holds the bed up when the slide is in is not adequate to securely hold it in place. In fact on our first trip trying out the bed the screws ripped right out of the floor! The warranty center added another fastener on the other side of the bed (strap with plastic clips). Is there no other less clunky way to hold up these type of beds? I am wondering if something similar to the hydraulic type lifts used on the over cab section could be used or something less primitive and ineffective?

On another topic, we have have NO issues with the carrying capacity in the Wayfarers, maybe it was increased? We carry what we need and there seem to be no worries!!

f14av8r 07-15-2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copythat (Post 4864772)
The wife and I negotiated a great price for a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW with several factory installed options. We loved the looks of the coach and its many features. I then stumbled across this thread and saw the concerns about the cargo carrying capacity.

I asked the salesperson to send me a picture of the door sticker of the coach we picked out and the maximum capacity was 612 pounds. A full load of water is listed at 317 pounds, I weigh 205, my wife is 115 and the dog is 20. My question to the salesperson was what do we do about propane, food, clothes, etc.?

The salesperson called the Tiffin rep and he apparently told her that we had to decide on what quality of coach we wanted and he had never had anyone complain about storage in the 25RW. To be clear, I never complained about storage in the coach; there is plenty. However, the coach can't even be used for its intended purpose without overloading it and probably voiding the warranty. Needless to say, we backed out of the deal and are in an RV funk. :-(

Now what?

Now what? Don't sweat it too much. Add up the axle ratings and you'll see you have more capacity than you think. Winnebago makes a nice product and the 2020 View/Navion is a strong contender. In this category though, the Tiffin product is more refined and better equipped for what we need. Do you want a residential refrigerator in a Class C? If not, you better look to Tiffin. You live in Virginia. Don't discount the advantage of having the factory much closer.

Get the aluminum wheels. That will save some weight. Towing? Put all that stuff you plan to carry in the toad.

Frankly, we just don't worry about it that much. Be reasonable and get out there! The RW is a fantastic floor plan. Don't pass just because of a door sticker.

MarkMaxPayne 07-16-2019 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisanorby (Post 4865441)
Hi - I recently posted an issue with the Tiffin Wayfarer 25QW bed that folded in half and was unusable. Trent Tiffin was incredibly responsive and a warranty center replaced the bed and mattress with the version they used in the 2018 and will use in the 2020 models. It now folds up like a piano top when the slide is in and is very comfortable. The arm that holds the bed up when the slide is in is not adequate to securely hold it in place. In fact on our first trip trying out the bed the screws ripped right out of the floor! The warranty center added another fastener on the other side of the bed (strap with plastic clips). Is there no other less clunky way to hold up these type of beds? I am wondering if something similar to the hydraulic type lifts used on the over cab section could be used or something less primitive and ineffective?

In the 2018 the latch was custom fab and very robust. I don't have screws that would rip out of the slide floor. What worried me was the screws on the swing arm part of the latch on the part that raises the foot of the bed.

On the slide out floor on the passenger side a metal bracket is bolted to it with two substancial bolts. A length of C channel aluminum stock was then bolted to that bracket on the end where the latch would catch. The other end, where the latch would slide but not catch, was attached with a screw into the slide floor.

With your slide out in you should be able to see and feel the bolts on the underside of the slide bottom. With the slide out extended you should be able to go outside and look near where the roller is. If you don't have two bolts going through the entire slide out bottom then they didn't do it like the 2018s. Similar to how the seatbelt bolts are done on the side slide out.

When I upgraded to a much better mattress that was thicker and heavier I ordered another latching mechanism for the driver side from Tiffin as the fold up section was bowing under the stress. Drilling those two holes completely through the bottom of my slide out for the two heafty bolts was nerve racking...

Best,
-Mark

Happy_Trails 07-18-2019 01:54 AM

We just sold our 40ft Class A and are wanting to downsize for many of the reasons mentioned on this thread. Our biggest issue, like you guys, is OCCC. So far, the Class C/B+'s OCCC numbers we have is: Tiffin Wayfarer 672lbs, Leisure Vans Unity 900lbs, Lazy-Daze (V-10, not MB chassis 1800-3199lbs). The three of us plus the dogs will weigh in at 600lbs... Has anyone looked into https://advanced-rv.com/ to build one to support greater cargo load capacity?

luvlabs 07-18-2019 04:39 PM

Advanced is still constrained by the same chassis specs that everyone else is but you will just pay more for your low OCCC. Winnebago does a good job in this area since they have been building on the Sprinter chassis for 10+ years and do a good job managing weight.

Happy_Trails 07-19-2019 11:15 PM

Thanks Roger for your reply. I understand that all Sprinter chassis based RV manufacturers are constrained to the same set of Mercedes Benz Sprinter chassis specs. Do you know any specifics as to how Winnebago does a better job at "managing" weight? Furniture selection? smaller tanks? Lighter framing/roof/walls/flooring build materials? No Slides? Thanks for your help.

luvlabs 07-20-2019 04:18 PM

Aluminum framing and much lighter cabinets (from an Italian yacht supplier) are two big ones that come mind. Tankage is about the same as others. All three models have slides. Levelers are not included but can be added with about a 180 lb penalty.

MarkMaxPayne 07-20-2019 04:36 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Linsanorby: here are photos of how Tiffin secured bracket at factory in 2018 models of the Wafarer in both the QW and BW. Arrows are pointing out the all the way through bolts through the slide out bottom. Your dealer when adding this on may have taken a shortcut with short screws and/or they tried a different latching mechanism.

As for some of the weight comments... Yah paperboard and vinyl contact paper pretending to be wood vs real wood is indeed light. Balsa is a wood, but super light (okay I'm kidding here ;)). As for holding up to wear and tear or lasting long? Well, perhaps not so much...

Best,
-Mark

GLE3 11-24-2019 09:03 PM

Can you replace the mattress with a gel foam? thanks christy allen

grthigpen 11-25-2019 08:20 AM

We went to buy a 25RW but we learned about the weight limitations so we bought a Breeze instead

mdudge2019 12-02-2019 04:51 PM

2020 tiffin wayfarer rw
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by f14av8r (Post 4788222)
I took delivery last week of my 2020 Wayfarer RW. It's just me and the wife, no kids and we never intend to sleep more than two people. So, we went with the RW (murphy bed, rear bath) floorplan. We chose the theater seating and eliminated the over-cab bunk in favor of the entertainment / storage center.

We made the move from a 35' diesel pusher (Winnebago Journey) and it was an interesting transition to say the least. I was amazed at the amount of stuff we'd be carrying around in the Journey. There was no way most of that was going in the Wayfarer. This was obviously a downsize and we were prepared for the changes that would be required. Our main objectives were:
- Find a coach that the wife was comfortable driving.
- Eliminate the requirement to tow a vehicle.
- Improve our fuel mileage
- Improve the comfort, safety and convenience level of the driving experience.
- Strongly prefer a diesel coach and diesel generator
- Preserve our dry camping ability
- Preserve our one bed experience. We accepted a Queen but the twin / sleep separately options were out.
- Accept the fact we'll cook less and eat out more. Frankly, we did that anyway.
- Minimize the maintenance and cleaning tasks, inside and outside.
- Choose either a Tiffin or a Winnebago product. We didn't even consider anything else.

Here are my initial thoughts.
- The RW floorplan is a market winner. Winnebago has introduced a similar murphy bed / rear bath plan for the 2020 View and I predict it will be far and away the most popular model. The View doesn't offer theater seating up front though and that was a big plus for us.
- The ability to convert the over-cab bunk to a entertainment center / cabineted storage area was a big plus for us.
- The 2020 (actually 2019 for Mercedes) Mercedes chassis is awesome. The comfort, convenience and safety features are on par with any offered in the automotive market. That is hard to find in the motorhome world. Of course, all the manufacturers will benefit from this change so it's really not a determinate when choosing between the various manufacturers building on the Sprinter.
- Love the on-demand hot water heater with recirculation. We've looked at coaches with on-demand heaters before an always rejected them because of the lack of a true recirculation feature. There is nothing better in the motorhome environment, especially when dry camping, than getting your hot water instantaneously without having to run precious fresh water through the pipes.
- The electrical system is superb. I like the simplicity of operation but the complexity in the background. The solar / generator / inverter / shore combination work well together and make for a seemless experience. I'll probably move to lithium batteries when the originals reach their service life but for now, it's all good.
- I like the distribution of fresh, grey and black water across the RW tanks. I like the ability to gravity fill the fresh water tank. I like Tiffin's lowered sump / rotating outlet approach to dumping.
- The entertainment system, with it's HDTV antenna and WiFi Ranger are awesome.
- Storage, while limited, is well thought out. There is even a very small pass through storage area in the back.


Our issues so far:
- The front Cabinet Door hinges were loose
- Glue in the door hinge screw anchors
- Put the pulls in the middle of the door to minimize torque on the lower hinge
- Tie up all loose wires. We found several areas in the water / electrical bays where wires were hanging loose. Not acceptable
- Mount the level sensors properly. Our indicator system never shows zero and never shows full. I suspect that's because the sensors were not mounted properly.
- The Murphy Bed needs an additional travel lock. During our test drive, the salesman forgot to secure the bed properly and it came flying down in the first left turn. It damaged a drawer latch and the edge of the wood bed platform.j
- The Bathroom door needs a travel latch and a lock for privacy.
- The shower skylight needs a shade, at least for storage to prevent yellowing of the plastic enclosure.
- The steel wheels use simulators (hub caps)
- The simulators must be properly positioned or they will cut the valve stem when pushed into position (ask me how I know).

All in all, all our delivery issues have been very minor. Certainly less than when we took possession of the Journey nine years ago! It took us a full year to work out the kinks in that coach.

I highly recommend the 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer RW. The 2020 Winnebago View looks to be a strong competitor but isn't available on the dealers lots yet. Many dealers are offering great prices on 2019 Wayfarers and Views. Be careful! The change in the Sprinter chassis is very, very significant and you'll be buying old technology if you buy a 2019 Wayfarer or View!

I have owned my 2020 since 9-30-19. been back to la mesa rv 4 times to get warranty items fixed. the 1st time was getting the satellite installed. after that, we had to replace the transfer switch, slide motor, jensen radio and panel right behind drivers seat. the control panel on the fridge still does not work. waiting on getting another control panel to see if that fixes it. I love the new tiffin floorplan but kinda wondering why all these things have to be replaced on a new rv. hope I didn't buy a lemon. if they can fix the fridge, then I can try it out and see how it goes.

junkbox 12-26-2019 08:56 PM

2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW Question
 
We are setting our sights on the 25RW, AND I havenít seen any comments on the water distribution system. I feel a bit of concern over a health risk having fresh water in the same compartment as the dump valves, and fresh water hoses crossing below the dump valves to the water pump, also mounted below the dump outlet. Where are people storing their hoses, and what are you doing to prevent contamination of you fresh water? Iíve only read positive reviews on this?????

shassel 01-27-2020 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f14av8r (Post 4788222)
We chose the theater seating and eliminated the over-cab bunk in favor of the entertainment / storage center.

f14av8r,

I have yet to see any pictures of this option. Can I see yours? Inside and out?
We are also looking to shave any weight possible, and we do not need a bunk.

shassel 01-27-2020 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlabs (Post 4865355)
Start looking at Winnebago View/Navion models. We have found our Navion to be as nice as anything Tiffin has put out the door and it has an OCCC of 1100 lbs or so. Winnebago has far more engineering experience with the Sprinter chassis and knows how to build for maximum OCCC.

We are also trying to decide between Winnebago View and Tiffin Wayfarer. Leaning to Tiffin because their Murphy bed model similar to the 25RW does not have theater seats. Also, their smaller propane tank and compressor refrigerator they are not as good at living off-grid. They do have lithium batteries, however, but Tiffin has that as a "unlisted option" and it will soon become standard, I understand.

I was looking at a RW with 750 lbs OCCC, even with levelers. If I add aluminum wheels and lithium batteries I hope to get that to 850. Still not as good as the View. It's all trade offs.

maasthor 01-27-2020 06:35 PM

we picked up our 2020 25RW tiffin last week. it has aluminum wheels, added slide topper, levelling jacks and solar. OCCC is 900 lbs. plenty to work with; we don't boondock so don't need a full fresh water.

mdudge2019 01-28-2020 02:21 PM

Tiffin 2020 25RW
 
would love to hear how you like your new Tiffin Wayfarer. We bought ours on 9-30-19. There was a ton of warranty stuff that needed fixing. Hard to believe on a new RV.
Tiffin finally replaced my original fridge. Now we are ready to take a trip. I like the bunk for storage reasons. We dont have a car that we can flat tow right now. hopefully we can fix that problem soon.

Our first trip will be local before we try a long trip to Boise. cant wait to see how we do after all the things have been fixed by LA Mesa Rv.

stankiyota 01-28-2020 08:59 PM

Had our 25RW for 30 days, goes in for 1st Warranty...
 
...this Friday the 31st at Mike Thompson RV Tiffin Service Center in Colton CA.

Overall, I would have to say I am relieved and impressed with our 25RW. It has performed as expected, we had zero punch items when we left the lot on December 30, and my list of "fixes" for Friday is short and several I should have identified in our walkthrough but failed to do so.

The difference in build quality between the Tiffin and the identical Thor floorplan MBZ we rented last year is night and day! The Thor was a brand new 2020 and had so many problems (e.g. no consistent hot water) and the fit and finish were so poor relative to the Tiffin.

Specifically, for Friday, here is my punch list for the tech to take care of, as you see, nothing really major....
  • Adjust screen door latch so door stays closed latched
  • Adjust dinette window opening interfering with emergency window
  • Repair bathroom trim next to shower above toilet paper holder on ceiling
  • Adjust grey tank water level sensors (reads high)
  • Adjust fresh tank water level sensors (reads high) (shows 1/3 even if empty)
  • Adjust refrigerator door latch (door flies open) (add washer to hinge)
  • Double-check sealant around shower pan and ensure no water leakage

If you have not seen my posts elsewhere, our rig was really a special BTO from Tiffin and includes LiIon house batteries, extra solar panel, bedroom curtain, countertop extension, BigFoot, 2000W inverter, 15K AC, slide topper, combined 2 of the interior packages and more. They got it all right in the build the first time.

Let me know if you have questions.

Stan

Travelino 01-28-2020 09:13 PM

Stan,
Your list sounds like you got a pretty good build.
We factory ordered our 2020 RW and picked it up at the end of May 2019. Have a little over 10K miles mainly from two long trips.


I did mention in an older post that our frig door needed to be raised up so it would catch. Sad to hear that they still have that problem and that is not being caught and fixed before it goes to the dealer. Gald we found that problem before we left the dealer and they put a nylon washer under the lower hinge that raised the door enough so it would catch properly.


Fixing screen door latch is an easy fix. We more recently found our main door jaming(scraping) at the bottom of the frame edge, make a cut into the frame and binding. Found out from Tiffin that the screws in the hinges strip out and the door loosens up. Door is from a subcontractor. Tiffin fix is to put in longer screws so it grips into some metal further into door panel. They sent me the screws, but what they sent are flat head screws and the originals are round head, so they don't look proper, but I put one screw into the bottom hinge and sure enough it pulled the door back to the hinge side, so the lower door portion does not scrape. I plan to return to Tiffin for service and decided not to install all the other flat head screws till I see if they are in fact using those versus round head. Just thought posting this as it seems to be a common problem according to Tiffin.

shassel 01-29-2020 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stankiyota (Post 5127537)
If you have not seen my posts elsewhere, our rig was really a special BTO from Tiffin and includes LiIon house batteries, extra solar panel, bedroom curtain, countertop extension, BigFoot, 2000W inverter, 15K AC, slide topper, combined 2 of the interior packages and more. They got it all right in the build the first time.

Stan, I like the custom options you got. Do you have pictures of the bedroom curtain and countertop extension? I wonder why they don't list these things.

mdudge2019 01-29-2020 10:42 AM

2020 Tiffin wayfarer rw
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shassel (Post 5127738)
Stan, I like the custom options you got. Do you have pictures of the bedroom curtain and countertop extension? I wonder why they don't list these things.

Yes I would like to see pictures also. I did not know that the curtain was an option and that the topper was an option. Would love to know how critical the topper is to have. I had one on my previous Rv.
Your fixes were much less than mine. Major things like transfer switch, jensen radio, the slide motor and the fridge all had to be replaced. I had to go back 3 times before I got a new fridge. They kept saying it was the control board. Is this a problem with the dealership or manufacturer? I took possession on 9-30-19. Three and a half months later, I finally have an RV that I can use.
I am glad that these things finally work. But why am I the only one having issues with a 2020 Tiffin?

stankiyota 01-29-2020 08:01 PM

Some Pix of my options
 
5 Attachment(s)
Shassel et al., here are some pix of the options including curtain and slide topper. I don't have one of the countertop extension but can take a pic this weekend and post.

The full list of features and options we ordered include...

...aluminum wheels
...Big Foot
...15K AC/heat pump
...Sparrow interior flooring and countertop only
...Oasis interior except floor
...Linen cabinetry
...Fossil leather
...Reston Ivory wallboard
...2000W inverter
...Exterior TV
...Bedroom TV
...Countertop Extension
...Booth Dinette
...2019 Overhead Bunk which includes window and power shade that was discontinued for 2020 model year
...Solar system with 2 panels (340W total)
...Slide topper
...Curtain separating bed area from living area
...2 Dragonfly LiIon batteries to replace house AGM batteries

Our price from MTRV was $121K for above (MSRP was $159,450)

Pics as below...

shassel 01-30-2020 04:51 AM

Interesting. Looks like the curtain is hidden away when not in use?

Thanks for sharing.

shassel 01-30-2020 08:15 AM

Some RW Questions
 
How large are the external storage bays on the 25RW? Are they big enough for say two zero gravity chairs?

Is there a guard rail for the overhead bunk? If I put my grandkids up there, are they going to fall out? Or for that matter, if I just use it for storage and put boxes up there, will anything hold them in or do I have to rig something up?

luvlabs 01-30-2020 08:45 AM

Your zero gravity chairs are going to have to ride in your tow or on the bed. Storage compartments on Sprinter based motorhomes are small.

There is no rail on the top bunk. You would need to either make something or purchase and adapt something.

stankiyota 01-31-2020 05:50 PM

More pix inc. Slide Topper closed; countertop...
 
6 Attachment(s)
...extension, and LiIon battery info...S

shassel 01-31-2020 07:21 PM

Thanks, that looks great!


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