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f14av8r 05-24-2019 12:52 PM

My new 2020 Wayfarer RW
 
I took delivery last week of my 2020 Wayfarer RW. It's just me and the wife, no kids and we never intend to sleep more than two people. So, we went with the RW (murphy bed, rear bath) floorplan. We chose the theater seating and eliminated the over-cab bunk in favor of the entertainment / storage center.

We made the move from a 35' diesel pusher (Winnebago Journey) and it was an interesting transition to say the least. I was amazed at the amount of stuff we'd be carrying around in the Journey. There was no way most of that was going in the Wayfarer. This was obviously a downsize and we were prepared for the changes that would be required. Our main objectives were:
- Find a coach that the wife was comfortable driving.
- Eliminate the requirement to tow a vehicle.
- Improve our fuel mileage
- Improve the comfort, safety and convenience level of the driving experience.
- Strongly prefer a diesel coach and diesel generator
- Preserve our dry camping ability
- Preserve our one bed experience. We accepted a Queen but the twin / sleep separately options were out.
- Accept the fact we'll cook less and eat out more. Frankly, we did that anyway.
- Minimize the maintenance and cleaning tasks, inside and outside.
- Choose either a Tiffin or a Winnebago product. We didn't even consider anything else.

Here are my initial thoughts.
- The RW floorplan is a market winner. Winnebago has introduced a similar murphy bed / rear bath plan for the 2020 View and I predict it will be far and away the most popular model. The View doesn't offer theater seating up front though and that was a big plus for us.
- The ability to convert the over-cab bunk to a entertainment center / cabineted storage area was a big plus for us.
- The 2020 (actually 2019 for Mercedes) Mercedes chassis is awesome. The comfort, convenience and safety features are on par with any offered in the automotive market. That is hard to find in the motorhome world. Of course, all the manufacturers will benefit from this change so it's really not a determinate when choosing between the various manufacturers building on the Sprinter.
- Love the on-demand hot water heater with recirculation. We've looked at coaches with on-demand heaters before an always rejected them because of the lack of a true recirculation feature. There is nothing better in the motorhome environment, especially when dry camping, than getting your hot water instantaneously without having to run precious fresh water through the pipes.
- The electrical system is superb. I like the simplicity of operation but the complexity in the background. The solar / generator / inverter / shore combination work well together and make for a seemless experience. I'll probably move to lithium batteries when the originals reach their service life but for now, it's all good.
- I like the distribution of fresh, grey and black water across the RW tanks. I like the ability to gravity fill the fresh water tank. I like Tiffin's lowered sump / rotating outlet approach to dumping.
- The entertainment system, with it's HDTV antenna and WiFi Ranger are awesome.
- Storage, while limited, is well thought out. There is even a very small pass through storage area in the back.


Our issues so far:
- The front Cabinet Door hinges were loose
- Glue in the door hinge screw anchors
- Put the pulls in the middle of the door to minimize torque on the lower hinge
- Tie up all loose wires. We found several areas in the water / electrical bays where wires were hanging loose. Not acceptable
- Mount the level sensors properly. Our indicator system never shows zero and never shows full. I suspect that's because the sensors were not mounted properly.
- The Murphy Bed needs an additional travel lock. During our test drive, the salesman forgot to secure the bed properly and it came flying down in the first left turn. It damaged a drawer latch and the edge of the wood bed platform.j
- The Bathroom door needs a travel latch and a lock for privacy.
- The shower skylight needs a shade, at least for storage to prevent yellowing of the plastic enclosure.
- The steel wheels use simulators (hub caps)
- The simulators must be properly positioned or they will cut the valve stem when pushed into position (ask me how I know).

All in all, all our delivery issues have been very minor. Certainly less than when we took possession of the Journey nine years ago! It took us a full year to work out the kinks in that coach.

I highly recommend the 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer RW. The 2020 Winnebago View looks to be a strong competitor but isn't available on the dealers lots yet. Many dealers are offering great prices on 2019 Wayfarers and Views. Be careful! The change in the Sprinter chassis is very, very significant and you'll be buying old technology if you buy a 2019 Wayfarer or View!

Travelino 05-24-2019 09:36 PM

Randy, great report and well appreciated. Good luck with your new RW.



We pick up our new RW on Thursday. We're excited about it.


Just learned from a post on the Tiffin forums that the seats in the new Sprinters move forward when you try to recline them. I assume that is when they are in the driving position. The poster said that Tiffin is working with Mercedes to find a fix, as there isn't an obstruction behind the passenger seat. I am hoping it doesn't more foward too much, because I need to recline somewhat when I'm a passenger and need enough leg room to avoid knee problems. Have you found this to be a problem in your unit.

f14av8r 05-25-2019 06:53 AM

Seat Translating forward in Sprinter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelino (Post 4788836)
Randy, great report and well appreciated. Good luck with your new RW.



We pick up our new RW on Thursday. We're excited about it.


Just learned from a post on the Tiffin forums that the seats in the new Sprinters move forward when you try to recline them. I assume that is when they are in the driving position. The poster said that Tiffin is working with Mercedes to find a fix, as there isn't an obstruction behind the passenger seat. I am hoping it doesn't more foward too much, because I need to recline somewhat when I'm a passenger and need enough leg room to avoid knee problems. Have you found this to be a problem in your unit.


Yes, it is true that, if you have the seat adjusted towards the full rear travel point and then try and recline, the seat will move forward. I haven't checked to see if there is an obstruction that requires the translation forward but, as you indicated, it is probably a holdover from the basic Sprinter chassis with the rear cab wall.

No, I haven't found this to be a problem but I'm 5'9" so I don't need a lot of room. I can see how it might be an issue for larger people though.

It is probably some sort of software change that could be made so hopefully Tiffin will work with Mercedes to get it changed.

lisanorby 06-04-2019 10:54 AM

If anyone is looking for a Tiffin Wayfarer, I highly recommend Beaver Motorcoach Sales in Bend OR. WE drove there from Denver Co and were incredibly pleased with their price, service, and assistance. They spent 4 hours going through everything which was a huge help to a new motorhome buyer!

Travelino 06-04-2019 09:50 PM

We picked up our new 2020 RW on Thursday and stayed at the dealer till Saturday morning. We had a few things that needed fixing.



I did find the new Sprinter chassis with all its automation quite challenging. Just going over the coach and its systems is a lot to remember, then adding the new chassis, which in my opinion is not intuitive was a real challenge just to get some things to work or display. Since dealers haven't sold a lot of 2019 Sprinter chassis, plus Tiffin adding a lot of Mercedes options to them, there isn't a lot of expertise to help you get acquainted with it.


On the seat issue, we did find it to be a problem. When I'm in the passenger seat, it was uncomfortable. I have issues with my knees when they are bent too long and I was not able to straighten them out, unless the seat was in the bolt upright position. As has been mentioned, when you recline the seat, the seat moves forward in increments thinking that it needs the clearance behind it. There is no reason or interference in the Wayfarer. I hope they can make a change to this unnecessary movement. At one point, I tried to recline the seat further to see how far back it would recline. I never got it to recline too much, because the seat had moved so far forward, that it was about to jam my knees into the dash. I'm 5' 11" so not very tall, but it was a problem for me. I also have a back problem so I need to recline to relieve some back pain, and of course you can't do that much.


I was surprised that my wife also said the passenger seat was uncomfortable for her too, because she is only 5' 3"
Her main complaint was that it was too upright.


On the other hand, we both didn't have a problem with the driver's seat, even though it has the same characteristics. The leg room on the drivers side, is longer than the passenger side, so even for me, I was able to move my left foot just to the side of the brake pedal and get about full extension on my leg.


Since the seat controls are on the doors towards the front of the door, when you swivel the seats around, you don't have easy access to the seat adjustments. You either stretch your arm around or get up and lean over the seat to reach the seat controls. Really, if they could have only left the controls on the seat itself.



Oh, while I'm on the subject, I would prefer less of the new Sprinter features. The NAV/Radio system is a bit too much for me. Mercedes makes a big deal of warning you about not being distracted and then they go ahead and do just that. After driving for a while, maybe an hour, the darn thing talked and asked what we wanted to do. The message said that online support was not available. This was a distraction and we didn't know what triggered it or if something needed attention. We pushed the home button and it went back to the main page. We were not using the radio at all, it was within our first segment of driving it home. Later on in our trip, we found this happens over and over, like getting unwanted solicitation calls. One time, I yelled back at it when it asked what I wanted to do, and I told it to shut off. It seemed to work. We never figured out how to actually shut it off. I tried the radio once and never was able to shut that off, so we turned the volume to zero but still could hear it faintly. We have a lot of reading to do to figure this all out. Didn't see an old fashion off button..

Mr K. 06-06-2019 02:06 AM

Options and carry capacity
 
Need to memorize secret German passwords for new Sprinter.

1. Are there options on the new 2020 Wayfarers? Or all equipped the same?

2. How do those options affect the Occupant Carry Capacity?

3. There were opinions on this site that the new Mercedes chassis would have increased cargo capability. Did this not happen at all? Or are the upfitters just unaware and using old numbers?

4. Someone above reported that new Tiffin Sprinters might not have mirror or side cameras? Was this fixed?

luvlabs 06-06-2019 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K. (Post 4807019)
Need to memorize secret German passwords for new Sprinter.

1. Are there options on the new 2020 Wayfarers? Or all equipped the same?Check the Tiffin website. Wayfarer standard equipment and options are listed.

2. How do those options affect the Occupant Carry Capacity? Tiffin already has some of the lowest OCCC numbers in the industry. Most options add weight and that will lower the OCCC even further.

3. There were opinions on this site that the new Mercedes chassis would have increased cargo capability. Did this not happen at all? Or are the upfitters just unaware and using old numbers? The new Sprinter chassis has exactly the same specs as the previous chassis with regards to GVWR and GCWR. Upfitters seem to having problems with some of the "features" found on the new chassis, however.

4. Someone above reported that new Tiffin Sprinters might not have mirror or side cameras? Was this fixed? Sounds about right.
Camera systems proposed don't work with the Mercedes electronics. Not sure there is a resolution yet but it sounds like you would have to install an after market system if you want side view cameras.

Most people forget that Mercedes has to approve areas where the upfitter electronics communicate with the Sprinter chassis. Some manufacturers have found that some of the new chassis features don't work for their customers (seats for example) or with what the upfitter wants to add (cameras for example). It will get sorted out eventually.

f14av8r 06-06-2019 10:23 AM

Mercedes Seat Recline
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelino (Post 4805445)
We picked up our new 2020 RW on Thursday and stayed at the dealer till Saturday morning. We had a few things that needed fixing.


On the seat issue, we did find it to be a problem. When I'm in the passenger seat, it was uncomfortable. I have issues with my knees when they are bent too long and I was not able to straighten them out, unless the seat was in the bolt upright position. As has been mentioned, when you recline the seat, the seat moves forward in increments thinking that it needs the clearance behind it. There is no reason or interference in the Wayfarer. I hope they can make a change to this unnecessary movement. At one point, I tried to recline the seat further to see how far back it would recline. I never got it to recline too much, because the seat had moved so far forward, that it was about to jam my knees into the dash. I'm 5' 11" so not very tall, but it was a problem for me. I also have a back problem so I need to recline to relieve some back pain, and of course you can't do that much.


I was surprised that my wife also said the passenger seat was uncomfortable for her too, because she is only 5' 3"
Her main complaint was that it was too upright.


On the other hand, we both didn't have a problem with the driver's seat, even though it has the same characteristics. The leg room on the drivers side, is longer than the passenger side, so even for me, I was able to move my left foot just to the side of the brake pedal and get about full extension on my leg.

I spoke with Dan Phillips, Tiffin's Mercedes rep today. He says Mercedes is aware of the problem, has a fix in the works, and the reprogram for the seat recline / travel function should be available to dealers in a few weeks. This feature is necessary in the barebones chassis to keep the seat from pushing out the temporary back wall or whatever the up fitter put in its place. Obviously, it is unnecessary in our motorhomes.

Travelino 06-06-2019 05:36 PM

Interesting, I talked to Dan today too. He also pointed out that when sofware is updated, it looks at VIN number to determine type of vehicle. If the Sprinter is a passenger vehicle, then the seat doesn't move forward, but because our VINs indicate a work van, where there is no clearance behind the front seat, the seat then moves forward when reclined. He said they tried to fix the software, but couldn't so now its being handled by Germany. He also knows a lot of folks want that fixed and was confident that it would be soon. I also plan to keep in touch with him to find out when it is fixed and will post here when it is. Just hope the "fix" doesn't mess up something else.

copythat 07-14-2019 08:50 PM

The wife and I negotiated a great price for a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW with several factory installed options. We loved the looks of the coach and its many features. I then stumbled across this thread and saw the concerns about the cargo carrying capacity.

I asked the salesperson to send me a picture of the door sticker of the coach we picked out and the maximum capacity was 612 pounds. A full load of water is listed at 317 pounds, I weigh 205, my wife is 115 and the dog is 20. My question to the salesperson was what do we do about propane, food, clothes, etc.?

The salesperson called the Tiffin rep and he apparently told her that we had to decide on what quality of coach we wanted and he had never had anyone complain about storage in the 25RW. To be clear, I never complained about storage in the coach; there is plenty. However, the coach can't even be used for its intended purpose without overloading it and probably voiding the warranty. Needless to say, we backed out of the deal and are in an RV funk. :-(

Now what?

Looking4rv 07-14-2019 11:39 PM

First off it is a known issue with the Wayfarer and especially the RW due to the full slide.

I ordered one anyway. Due in August / special order.

I would encourage you to investigate further the weight saving ideas on the forums and FB Wayfarer groups.

I went to the factory and was very impressed with the staff and Trent Tiffin. Willing to to do substantial semi custom orders at very reasonable prices. I had several done.

I ordered mine with out the theater seats as I wanted a dinette anyway. That is substantial weight savings. I got what I wanted and not what I do not want. The key is not to get every option. That is what the dealers do and most do not have a clue how low the occc gets. The one you suggested above likely has every option, do you need them all? I expect mine to be about 750 lbs and I will run with a half tank of water.

The new safety components are far more important to me than than being near the weight limit. Look around out there and many, likely most class c's are over loaded. Use what you take and do not over pack. Do not walk away from Tiffin until you do more looking around.

luvlabs 07-15-2019 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copythat (Post 4864772)
The wife and I negotiated a great price for a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW with several factory installed options. We loved the looks of the coach and its many features. I then stumbled across this thread and saw the concerns about the cargo carrying capacity.

I asked the salesperson to send me a picture of the door sticker of the coach we picked out and the maximum capacity was 612 pounds. A full load of water is listed at 317 pounds, I weigh 205, my wife is 115 and the dog is 20. My question to the salesperson was what do we do about propane, food, clothes, etc.?

The salesperson called the Tiffin rep and he apparently told her that we had to decide on what quality of coach we wanted and he had never had anyone complain about storage in the 25RW. To be clear, I never complained about storage in the coach; there is plenty. However, the coach can't even be used for its intended purpose without overloading it and probably voiding the warranty. Needless to say, we backed out of the deal and are in an RV funk. :-(

Now what?

Start looking at Winnebago View/Navion models. We have found our Navion to be as nice as anything Tiffin has put out the door and it has an OCCC of 1100 lbs or so. Winnebago has far more engineering experience with the Sprinter chassis and knows how to build for maximum OCCC.

lisanorby 07-15-2019 10:18 AM

Wayfarer bed issue resolved (almost)!
 
Hi - I recently posted an issue with the Tiffin Wayfarer 25QW bed that folded in half and was unusable. Trent Tiffin was incredibly responsive and a warranty center replaced the bed and mattress with the version they used in the 2018 and will use in the 2020 models. It now folds up like a piano top when the slide is in and is very comfortable. The arm that holds the bed up when the slide is in is not adequate to securely hold it in place. In fact on our first trip trying out the bed the screws ripped right out of the floor! The warranty center added another fastener on the other side of the bed (strap with plastic clips). Is there no other less clunky way to hold up these type of beds? I am wondering if something similar to the hydraulic type lifts used on the over cab section could be used or something less primitive and ineffective?

On another topic, we have have NO issues with the carrying capacity in the Wayfarers, maybe it was increased? We carry what we need and there seem to be no worries!!

f14av8r 07-15-2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copythat (Post 4864772)
The wife and I negotiated a great price for a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW with several factory installed options. We loved the looks of the coach and its many features. I then stumbled across this thread and saw the concerns about the cargo carrying capacity.

I asked the salesperson to send me a picture of the door sticker of the coach we picked out and the maximum capacity was 612 pounds. A full load of water is listed at 317 pounds, I weigh 205, my wife is 115 and the dog is 20. My question to the salesperson was what do we do about propane, food, clothes, etc.?

The salesperson called the Tiffin rep and he apparently told her that we had to decide on what quality of coach we wanted and he had never had anyone complain about storage in the 25RW. To be clear, I never complained about storage in the coach; there is plenty. However, the coach can't even be used for its intended purpose without overloading it and probably voiding the warranty. Needless to say, we backed out of the deal and are in an RV funk. :-(

Now what?

Now what? Don't sweat it too much. Add up the axle ratings and you'll see you have more capacity than you think. Winnebago makes a nice product and the 2020 View/Navion is a strong contender. In this category though, the Tiffin product is more refined and better equipped for what we need. Do you want a residential refrigerator in a Class C? If not, you better look to Tiffin. You live in Virginia. Don't discount the advantage of having the factory much closer.

Get the aluminum wheels. That will save some weight. Towing? Put all that stuff you plan to carry in the toad.

Frankly, we just don't worry about it that much. Be reasonable and get out there! The RW is a fantastic floor plan. Don't pass just because of a door sticker.


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