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-   -   Propane oil? (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/propane-oil-471029.html)

The John 12-09-2019 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D (Post 5068248)
Just remember that those exchange tanks are only about 2/3rd's full so they're pretty expensive to use all the time.

Agreed, I meant as a way to get a new tank (with the correct valve) then have it filled going forward. Its been my experience that this is the cheaper way of getting a newer tank (but of course YMMV). :angel:

BillandLiz 12-09-2019 07:20 PM

My experience was the oil came from the hose itself which leaches out over time. Coleman as an example sells a small inline filter for that purpose. Many of the other folks are correct regarding malfunction of appliances etc. I too had those problems. You might try stopping at a place where they sell "propane and propane accessories" and ask. Keep us posted and have great holiday season.

Ray,IN 12-10-2019 04:25 PM

The name is, Liquefied Petroleum Gas/ LPG, there is going to be a tiny bit of oil settle to the bottom of a propane container over a long period of time, and it's normally never a problem. That oily substance comes from Ethyl Mercaptan, an oily substance. It is added to LPG before it is delivered to customers. It's only purpose is to warn people a flammable gas is present, as LPG has no natural odor.
A household LPG line must have a "drip leg" installed prior to those appliances though. For an unknown reason RV's do not have a drip leg in the LPG line.
No, there is no alcohol added to an LP system(can you imagine what would happen when it reaches a burner?), where would it and the oil it supposedly removes go but to the appliance burners?
FWIW, I removed the pipe cap on the bottom of the drip leg in my household LPG system once in the last 49 years, nothing drained out. I haven't a clue how much "oil" is in the bottom of my 1,000G LPG tank at home.
Contrary to what some believe, LPG never goes bad, contaminated possibility, never bad.

TwoGrizz 12-10-2019 08:13 PM

I retired from the propane biz after 22 years. These answers are very entertaining. :whistling::popcorn:

grindstone01 12-10-2019 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoGrizz (Post 5070502)
I retired from the propane biz after 22 years. These answers are very entertaining. :whistling::popcorn:


So what is your take on the oil source then?? It's not something I ran into during my 2 years of residential delivery.

NH3Guy 12-10-2019 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoGrizz (Post 5070502)
I retired from the propane biz after 22 years. These answers are very entertaining. :whistling::popcorn:

It's kind of like the mill I use to go into and watch the forklift drivers come out and refuel their lift. One pulled the hose off and opened the valve and blew off the remaining, and when asked why, it was to release the pressure so he could refill! :banghead:

Excesses 12-11-2019 01:10 AM

I wouldn’t use it.

As for refilling, aren’t lpg cylinders date stamped like here in Canada? After 10 years, one will not find anyone willing to refill it. Nobody.

DJ

grindstone01 12-11-2019 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excesses (Post 5070706)
I wouldn’t use it.

As for refilling, aren’t lpg cylinders date stamped like here in Canada? After 10 years, one will not find anyone willing to refill it. Nobody.

DJ


You can re-certify the tank and then they can be refilled, cost is around $10. Besides, the OP has a full tank and is trying to decide what to do with the gas.

richard5933 12-11-2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindstone01 (Post 5071302)
You can re-certify the tank and then they can be refilled, cost is around $10. Besides, the OP has a full tank and is trying to decide what to do with the gas.


If the tank is taken to a propane dealer for re-certification, the dealer can capture the gas currently in the tank. However, if it's contaminated with oil it may need to be disposed of, which I'm sure the dealer can also advise on.

PSOUZA 12-11-2019 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindstone01 (Post 5070507)
So what is your take on the oil source then?? It's not something I ran into during my 2 years of residential delivery.




Several yeas ago I was heavily into analyzing the propane delivery problems associated with the Winnebago Reyo motor home and its derivatives. I assembled a paper describing some of the issues and the problems we solved. It is archived on this forum. Just look under "More" and "files" under the Forum header.


Briefly..some corrections.


Mercaptain is not an oil. It is a chemical resembling alcohol with a density of .8. Lighter than water. It is miscible in propane (it dissolves) and remains in that state until the propane vaporizes. It is very reactive with iron oxide and elastomers used in flexible hoses. Iron oxide will be neutralized by mercaptan and deplete the mercaptan requiring replenishment by shippers and handlers.
https://www.irv2.com//external-conten...yfacts.org.icohttps://www.chemicalsafetyfacts.org/methyl-mercaptan/


https://www.cpchem.com/bl/specchem/en...mercaptan.aspx





Propane is an excellent solvent and will absorb any oil, other than asphalt based oils, on contact, until the propane becomes saturated. The oil will remain in suspension until the final state change when propane completely vaporizes. At that point, all oils and other contaminants that were dissolved in the propane will settle out (condense) on surfaces of the regulator and low pressure hoses.


The "cracking" mentioned by one poster is a real problem with externally heated vapor generation systems on fork lifts and commercial heating systems but not in typical RV systems.


The comments on oil contamination seems to have originated from a private study funded by the City of Stockton, California where no conclusive determinations were made other than some contamination was present.


Some common sense can put this in perspective. This breakdown of flexible polymers occurs only at high pressure, as attested to by the Reyo recall of several years ago by Winnebago where only the two high pressure lines had decomposed. The Low pressure lines were still serviceable.


The total length of the hoses in these systems were less than 3 feet yet the amount of "oil" recovered was measured in ounces and never diminished over time. Compare the space consumed by those oils inside the solid polymer with the volume of the polymer itself. Of course the oil problems continued to persist after the recall was completed. This "theory" doesn't pass the smell test.


I have intentionally tried not to be confrontational. Just stating facts that I had to locate in order to rationally attempt to explain symptoms and arrive at a correct repair solution. This may require some thought on how this applies to some of the previous post content. I have also simplified some aspects, obviously, for space.

Phil

TwoGrizz 12-11-2019 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindstone01 (Post 5070507)
So what is your take on the oil source then?? It's not something I ran into during my 2 years of residential delivery.

Not enough info given from the OP to give a good answer.
Is it a tank hard mounted in a MH or a cylinder clamped on the front of a TT ?
There are usually no hoses on a tank permanently mounted to a vehicle except maybe for filling.

As some replies suggest taking it to a qualified propane dealer would be my call. Not the guy that fills it at the truck stop or convenience store.

Ray,IN 12-13-2019 09:51 AM

OSOUZA , Thanks for the informative reply. I stand corrected, I relied on my information from four decades ago when I was on a volunteer fire dept. I just read https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Ethanethiol in addition to your links, to further my education.

PSOUZA 12-13-2019 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 5073162)
OSOUZA , Thanks for the informative reply. I just read https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Ethanethiol in addition to your links, to further my education.


Interesting observation during the Winnebago recall of the propane hoses several years back. When approaching the propane compartment, prior to replacing the hoses, a fairly strong mercaptan odor was present. Application of "bubble liquid" failed to reveal a source. That included the surface of all the high pressure hoses.


After removal of the hoses, a very strong odor was present on my hands, and the hose surface reeked of it.


24 hours later, the hoses were odor free on the exterior.


The conclusion I made from that was the mercaptan was able to penetrate the hose polymer readily, and had leached out the plasticiser. Not really a surprise since something had to cause the early demise of the hose material. Note: The OEM hoses showed marked degradation (stiffness, loss of flexibility) within a month or two of start of service.



Note that the migration was outward and removes some credibility of the theory that oil contamination of the propane comes from the hoses. More thought and observations needed here, but corroboration from an authoritative source would be best. As of two years ago, there was none that was conclusive. The Stocton, Ca. study was pathetically inept and a waste of taxpayer money.


Phil

Ray,IN 12-13-2019 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSOUZA (Post 5073347)
Interesting observation during the Winnebago recall of the propane hoses several years back. When approaching the propane compartment, prior to replacing the hoses, a fairly strong mercaptan odor was present. Application of "bubble liquid" failed to reveal a source. That included the surface of all the high pressure hoses.


After removal of the hoses, a very strong odor was present on my hands, and the hose surface reeked of it.


24 hours later, the hoses were odor free on the exterior.


The conclusion I made from that was the mercaptan was able to penetrate the hose polymer readily, and had leached out the plasticiser. Not really a surprise since something had to cause the early demise of the hose material. Note: The OEM hoses showed marked degradation (stiffness, loss of flexibility) within a month or two of start of service.



Note that the migration was outward and removes some credibility of the theory that oil contamination of the propane comes from the hoses. More thought and observations needed here, but corroboration from an authoritative source would be best. As of two years ago, there was none that was conclusive. The Stocton, Ca. study was pathetically inept and a waste of taxpayer money.


Phil

BTW, I did note the Chemicalsafetyfacts.org link is to Methyl Mercaptan, which is not the chemical we are concerned with in this subject.


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