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twinboat 12-15-2019 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoGrizz (Post 5074921)
You are right about all, except, retailers that exchange cylinders print on the label "net weight 15 lbs." you are paying for the convenience of not stopping the party Saturday night for lack of gas.

They originally started with 17 lb of propane in the 20 lb tanks, as a safety concern while transporting them.

At the time they dropped to 15 lbs, their reason was a marketing decision to stay competitive.

Now that the prices have dropped again they are just making more money.

KanzKran 12-15-2019 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5075006)
They originally started with 17 lb of propane in the 20 lb tanks, as a safety concern while transporting them.

At the time they dropped to 15 lbs, their reason was a marketing decision to stay competitive.

Now that the prices have dropped again they are just making more money.

On Lowes’ web site, there’s a response to someone asking if they can have the cylinder refilled (elsewhere) to 20 lb.

“We at Blue Rhino only fill our tanks to 15 lbs. However in 2002 we were regulated by the NFPA to have over fill safety valves on all tanks filled which prevents any tank to be filled more than 17 to 17.5 lbs to ensure the valve properly works. Although the tank is referred to as a "20lb cylinder", the capacity is no longer 20 lbs.”

I’m not a member of the NFPA so I don’t have access to the relevant code, which I think is NFPA 58 Liquified Petroleum Gas Code. But this is the first I’ve heard of a rule/code change regarding DOT cylinder capacity.

15 lb is only 60% of the capacity of a 20 lb cylinder, which is actually 25 lb if filled to the top. Sounds fishy to me, but I have nothing to back that up, so it’s possible they’re telling the truth.

TwoGrizz 12-16-2019 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KanzKran (Post 5075119)
On Lowes’ web site, there’s a response to someone asking if they can have the cylinder refilled (elsewhere) to 20 lb.

“We at Blue Rhino only fill our tanks to 15 lbs. However in 2002 we were regulated by the NFPA to have over fill safety valves on all tanks filled which prevents any tank to be filled more than 17 to 17.5 lbs to ensure the valve properly works. Although the tank is referred to as a "20lb cylinder", the capacity is no longer 20 lbs.”

I’m not a member of the NFPA so I don’t have access to the relevant code, which I think is NFPA 58 Liquified Petroleum Gas Code. But this is the first I’ve heard of a rule/code change regarding DOT cylinder capacity.

15 lb is only 60% of the capacity of a 20 lb cylinder, which is actually 25 lb if filled to the top. Sounds fishy to me, but I have nothing to back that up, so it’s possible they’re telling the truth.

Sounds fishy to me also.

I have not filled a cylinder in a few years but we used a scale.
Propane dispensed to a DOT cyl. should be sold by the pound.
Thus the weight of the cyl. plus 20, 30, 40 and so on with cyl. on scale.
Average 20# cylinder is about 18#. Set the scale 39# allowing for hose.
Once in a while the OPD would stop a little short but no more than a pound.
And sometimes it would go a little over.

KanzKran 12-16-2019 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoGrizz (Post 5076461)
Sounds fishy to me also.

I have not filled a cylinder in a few years but we used a scale.
Propane dispensed to a DOT cyl. should be sold by the pound.
Thus the weight of the cyl. plus 20, 30, 40 and so on with cyl. on scale.
Average 20# cylinder is about 18#. Set the scale 39# allowing for hose.
Once in a while the OPD would stop a little short but no more than a pound.
And sometimes it would go a little over.

That's the procedure outlined by the Propane Education & Research Council (PERC) which includes a bunch of industry members and subject matter experts. I do know that propane fill services were not permitted to fill a cylinder that didn't have an OPD as of April 2002 (they were available since 1998 I think), but that's all I could find.

Nothing about 17-17.5 lb or 15 lb, and I haven't been able to find a supplier of OPD equipped cylinder valve units that aren't set up for 20 lb in a standard 20 lb cylinder.* I'm open to enlightenment, of course, but so far I'm turning up bupkis.

*Water capacity, stamped into the ring as "WC" followed by a number around 48-49, is the full-to-the-top weight of water the cylinder can hold in pounds. Propane having SG of around 0.51 means it would hold 25 lb of propane, and 80% of that is 20 lb.

TwoGrizz 12-16-2019 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KanzKran (Post 5076556)
That's the procedure outlined by the Propane Education & Research Council (PERC) which includes a bunch of industry members and subject matter experts. I do know that propane fill services were not permitted to fill a cylinder that didn't have an OPD as of April 2002 (they were available since 1998 I think), but that's all I could find.

Nothing about 17-17.5 lb or 15 lb, and I haven't been able to find a supplier of OPD equipped cylinder valve units that aren't set up for 20 lb in a standard 20 lb cylinder.* I'm open to enlightenment, of course, but so far I'm turning up bupkis.

*Water capacity, stamped into the ring as "WC" followed by a number around 48-49, is the full-to-the-top weight of water the cylinder can hold in pounds. Propane having SG of around 0.51 means it would hold 25 lb of propane, and 80% of that is 20 lb.

I concur. And I think we have strayed way off topic. :angel:

rlott2k 12-17-2019 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindstone01 (Post 5074802)
Come on down to Texas, the propane distributor I used to work only charges $10/tank. I keep spare stickers in my RV and don't charge for neighbors! Inspection is pretty easy, you visually check for any pitted rust, confirm it has a OPD valve, and soapy water test the valve for leaks, then sign and put on a inspection sticker. The test really should be free.
A 20lb tank will hold 20lbs of propane when 80% full, that's how it is sold. Some retailers that sell out of cages will only put 15lb in a 20lb bottle and sell it as full.
If you were close by, I would gladly pick and use the OP's oil contaminated propane gas/tank. Customers used to drop of old full gas tanks often, guess what I used to use on my home grill for gas?? (old gas in old tanks)



So your recertification ( older than 10 years) is a decal? Not a new date stamped in the handle?

richard5933 12-17-2019 08:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The re certification sticker on my tank is placed inside the collar/handle. You can see it on the upper tank in this photo. It contains much more information than just a date, such as the name and credentials of the place that did the recert.

TwoGrizz 12-18-2019 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlott2k (Post 5078285)
So your recertification ( older than 10 years) is a decal? Not a new date stamped in the handle?

It's 12 years to requalify!
That is up to the retailer, exchange retailer usually stamps, dealers use stickers, both are only good for five years.

Ray,IN 12-18-2019 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoGrizz (Post 5079387)
It's 12 years to requalify!
That is up to the retailer, exchange retailer usually stamps, dealers use stickers, both are only good for five years.

https://www.lpgasmagazine.com/dot-cy...ane-marketers/

TwoGrizz 12-18-2019 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard5933 (Post 5078363)
The re certification sticker on my tank is placed inside the collar/handle. You can see it on the upper tank in this photo. It contains much more information than just a date, such as the name and credentials of the place that did the recert.

Ours is a similar sticker, it incudes month and year "punch outs" and a code for the company and branch that recorded the info from the collar of your cylinder.
We are one of the largest family owned propane companies in the US.

It is stamped into the collar on most DOT cylinders that requalifying within 12 years is the law and that VISUAL inspection is the biggest part of requalifying. Does it look OK?


Steve

TwoGrizz 12-18-2019 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 5079403)

Look at the collar of your cylinder if it says 10yrs or 12yrs. go with that.

Mine say 12yrs.

KanzKran 12-19-2019 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 5079403)

And here's the notice from the DOT putting the 10-year requalification on hold until the rule change is more thoroughly vetted. There's some question on just exactly how the 12-year requalification rule got changed to 10 years, or more specifically, what the justification was, if any.

I don't know what, if anything, has happened since. I suspect it will revert to 12 years, permanently, but that's just a suspicion based on decades of seeing what goes on behind the curtain on other committees and code making panels and such.

https://www.npga.org/wp-content/uploa...cation-....pdf

rlott2k 12-19-2019 08:35 AM

Ok so a quite a bit different than in Canada.
https://propane.ca/wp-content/upload...ugust-2016.pdf
https://propane.ca/frequently-asked-questions/

Bytesponge 12-19-2019 03:55 PM

I agree 100%. I have had that experience of using an additional outside 40 lb bottle with a bad fill and cost me two regulators. Fluid can't be compressed by the regulator and messes up the diaphragm. I hope the OP listens to suggestions given. REPLACE THE BOTTLE.

Bytesponge


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