iRV2 Forums

iRV2 Forums (https://www.irv2.com/forums/)
-   iRV2.com General Discussion (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/)
-   -   What's too big for gas. (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/whats-too-big-for-gas-489154.html)

kongmen 05-21-2020 08:49 AM

What's too big for gas.
 
Can some of you tell me your opinions on what point is the RV too big for a gas engine? Thanks.

sbleiweiss 05-21-2020 08:54 AM

Works fine on my 38 foot, 22,000 pound MH, and that is with the five speed transmission. Should be even better with the six speed.

n0arp 05-21-2020 08:56 AM

There is a reason most people hauling large fifth wheels go with diesels. Coming solely from a trailering perspective, I'd say when your (combined) weight goes above 26K it's a lot more enjoyable to drive a diesel. A gas engine will work well beyond that, but will be working harder, louder, and will have significantly less braking assistance than a diesel with a good exhaust brake. I'm sure the same applies to a class A.

Dutch Star Don 05-21-2020 09:32 AM

Those with long gassers will say they work fine and those with short gassers will tell you theirs are more powerful.

The reality, the statement above about diesels is the most accurate answer. Remember, before diesels were put in large over the road trucks, they ran gasoline engines, until the diesels took over the market.

It will be really hard to determine a specific point where you should no longer be running gas. There are many factors.....overhang on a long gasser, extra weight of a long gasser, lower gearing, which means lower mpg's, etc.

JMHO.....I would stay at 32' to 34' in a gasser, especially if you want to tow something like a toad or boat.

Wrapped 05-21-2020 09:43 AM

40ft 262in wheelbase 6speed trans v10 24,000GVWR loaded for fulltime tow Rogue Sport on dolly. No problems.

A32Deuce 05-21-2020 09:44 AM

With the new 7.3 Ford gas V8 and ten speed trans, it should do real good. Has a fairly flat, high torque curve. With the ten speed keeping it in that curve, it should be a beast. That's what an oil burner has going for it, torque! I like the V10, but I think this new V8 will be better!

96 Wideglide 05-21-2020 09:59 AM

Seen one in a park that had 4 storage bays, behind the rear axle. Had to have been at least 12' of overhang!

I wouldn't want to be behind the wheel of that thing in the wind!

GypsyR 05-21-2020 12:28 PM

I'd say really the question is what is too heavy for a gas engine. Simply because for some reason they don't put turbos on bigger gas engines. Yet. But there's just way too many variables for me.

Best bet may be to shop for your best guess and then ask here if anyone is using one of those how you want to use it and their opinion of how it performs. There's like at least one of everything on this board and a number of people who have owned different coaches.

twinboat 05-21-2020 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A32Deuce (Post 5272053)
With the new 7.3 Ford gas V8 and ten speed trans, it should do real good. Has a fairly flat, high torque curve. With the ten speed keeping it in that curve, it should be a beast. That's what an oil burner has going for it, torque! I like the V10, but I think this new V8 will be better!

10 speed in a pickup, maybe but there is no talk of a 10 speed in MHs. They are starting with the 6 speed.

Ever wonder why diesels still run 6 speed automatics ? With torque, you don't need gears.

A32Deuce 05-21-2020 02:16 PM

10 speed keeps the engine in the sweet spot of the torque curve!

dssl 05-21-2020 02:43 PM

26k is largest f53 option.
 
Since ford F53 is really the only gas motorhome being made you are restricted to 26k pounds for the motorhome and 30k lbs for the total of your motorhome plus towed.

As s far as length goes it depends. Heavier materials tend to be nicer , more slide outs add weight. Some manufacturers top out at 36 ft while others go a bit longer.

As far as handling lots of variables like how long is the wheel base , what kind of anti sway and suspension options.

Gas motorhomes are less expensive initially and cheaper to maintain than deasel. A deisel will ride better and you can go bigger and or heavier.

Waiter21 05-21-2020 02:52 PM

My 270hp F53 V10 with 4 speed works just fine on my 35 ft Southwind, 22k lbs gross when loaded.

I can't run up I-70 to the Eisenhower tunnel at the posted speed limit, but I get up there.

Old Scout 05-21-2020 03:03 PM

think dssl nailed it--IMHO.....the design of a gasser puts the engine and tranny upfront on a lower capacity axle....so with longer /heavier gassers, you end up with more rear overhang to spread the weight to the rear....gassers and DPs are becoming comparable but with the weight limits and rear distribution, the gasser builder has to limit the number of slides, solid wood vs composites cabinetry , carpet/vinyl vs floor/shower tile, glass doors vs plastic, etc. and finally--rear engine vs front dog-house noise levels.... Not making any judgements on what is better--just saying there is a difference in trim and accessories and price points.....

vsheetz 05-21-2020 03:05 PM

Our previous class A motorhome was 38' on a Ford F53/v10 chassis. Pulled our 5000' jeep all over the western USA for several years. Got the job done.

GCSuper 05-21-2020 04:45 PM

Two years ago we bought a new 38 ft gas Motor home. Great floor plan for us and we love it. It truly has plenty of power with the way it's geared, but......that power is delivered at a fairly high rpm and going down can be worse. Handling wasn't too bad unless it was very windy and rough roads were just unpleasant. Any one of these by themselves wouldn't be too bad, but combined were enough to make us trade up to a DP. Most of these issues are present regardless of the size. It's just the nature of the beast. Our decision to trade was due to wanting to travel extensively over the next 5 years and we just didn't want to do that in a gas coach. The towing limit was a factor as well.

RI Expat 05-21-2020 06:16 PM

I love my rig, but the mileage sucks and the engine screams at higher speeds under load. I tow a 3400 lb car and have a 900 lb bike in the garage and it marches down the road just fine. No handling issues. But this is probably the max size and weight for a gasser.

AZ RV'r 05-21-2020 06:18 PM

You can see in my signature below I have RV'ed and stayed in all of the lower 48, and been into Canada twice.

Here are some facts and background for my opinion...

My current gas coach, a 2019 Fleetwood Southwind 37F is 38' 9"... just 15" shy of 40 feet long. It has a GCWR of 30,000 lbs and a hitch rating of 800 tongue / 8000 lb. hitch rating. Six speed transmission with a computer controlled top speed of 75 mph. It rides on the 22" Alcola wheels and it's ride quality is far better than my previous two coaches I describe below. It does have a long overhang behind the back wheels but I feel little to nothing when passing semi's or gusty days. It comes with a LONG full wall slide on the DS, and a smaller bedroom slide the PS. Currently its at 16,200 miles, purchased brand new in August of 2018.

My last coach was a 2016 Fleetwood Bounder at 35' 4" long, it was on the 22K chassis and the 5 speed transmission. Towing of 500 / 5000. It rode on the 22" Alcola wheels also. We traded it at 36,000 miles and it was also purchased brand new in 2015. The Bounder was a good coach. No major repairs in the 3 years of owning and it all worked like it should. Anyone that has a good amount of seat time with a 5 speed and then transitions into the newer 6 speed is telling the truth, when they say its a "night and day" difference.

Last... the coach before the Bounder was a 2007 Monaco diesel that had a Cummins 300 hp and was 37' long and we did about 10,00 total miles and we purchased it used. Im not sure about a lot of the specs on this coach as I owned it when I knew very little about rv's. We did NOT like or enjoy our diesel in the 11 months that we had it. Multiple problems...$4500 turbo replacement and about $2000 in other repairs...but just generally a poor quality coach. It probably had the cheaper roadmamaster chassis and only 4 airbags. When we would drive over a bridge, the coach would porpoise 3-4 times, and sometimes we felt like the front would actually bounce over foot or more.... every bridge... every time. Not to mention that every time it crashed down it felt like the front might break the front in half. The engine was too small for the length and weight of the coach and it always felt like it was struggling with or without the Jeep in tow. The weak engine and ride quality was probably 90% of why we got rid of it.

All three RV's towed a variation of the 4-door Jeep Wrangler.

So here is my opinion.... My current coach is the best in all comparisons, even though it is the longest of the three and even when compared to a similar sized coach with a 300HP diesel engine and here is my reasoning for saying that.

I feel if I lined all three coaches up and left from a dead stop, the Southwind would be the quickest from 0-60 and also a rolling start from say 45 up to 70 mph, the Southwind feels like it would definitely be the fastest. Running up a hill I think they would all kinda stink but the Monaco was severely underpowered and heavier. I remember I was always around 35 mph with the hazards on. The Bounder with the 5 speed, although slightly shorter and lighter would be no match for the Southwind with the 6 speed. I believe that the 6 speed is so good it more than makes up for the extra weight and 3 feet of length when compared to the smaller Bounder.

In my opinion after 16,200 miles of driving this coach, my gas surpasses my previous diesel in every way and is not underpowered even at near 40 ft. long. Im not sure, but it's probably close to the longest gas coach available and I believe the power is adequate.

Lastly... yes I do wish it was 600 HP and 1200 TRQ, but.. it is what it is... and it works good enough.

Hope this helps, good luck!

UFO Pilot 05-21-2020 10:26 PM

My gasser is 39', 26,000 lbs and 4,000 towing for a total of 30,000 lbs. It does all I want it to do.

Gary RVRoamer 05-22-2020 08:52 AM

It's not really the engine that makes the difference. It's the overall capability of the chassis to handle the length and weight. Diesel power and the transmissions designed to work with diesel engines show greater advantages as weight and size increases, so heavier duty chassis are near-always diesel powered as well. Along with that you get air suspension and brakes, heftier axles, steering with a high wheel cut angle, etc. All of that combines to make a more robust chassis. A gas-powered heavy duty chassis could be built, but most buyers would also choose the heavy duty diesel engine to go with it.


Ford is building a good front gas-engine motorhome chassis designed to handle coaches up to about 26,000 lbs, which will accommodate coaches up to about 36-38 ft. I'd rather have a diesel-pusher chassis in that range so I could get the aforementioned engineering advantages, but the gas chassis rig will work decently.


By todays standards, a 36-38 ft coach that weighs less than 26,000 lbs would be considered lightly built. Most 36 ft gas-chassis coaches are right up against the 26,000 lb GVWR of the latest Ford gas chassis, so a larger coach would either need a diesel chassis or would have to be slimmed down (lighter construction and fewer features) to fit.

MRUSA14 05-22-2020 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A32Deuce (Post 5272370)
10 speed keeps the engine in the sweet spot of the torque curve!

Yes, except that the sweet spot for torque on most gas engines is around 3000-4000 RPM, whereas in diesels it is around 1500 RPM. Which makes for a much more pleasant drive in the diesel.

A32Deuce 05-22-2020 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRUSA14 (Post 5273329)
Yes, except that the sweet spot for torque on most gas engines is around 3000-4000 RPM, whereas in diesels it is around 1500 RPM. Which makes for a much more pleasant drive in the diesel.

This engine was based on working and the torque curve is fairly flat and not the 3-4000 range you say. Check it out!

TomsMaHauL 05-22-2020 12:27 PM

After 3 trailers, we went with a Fleetwood diesel pusher. We had it for 6 years. Loved it! We now own a Tiffin 37ft gasser (first brand new purchase in '16), and have, thoroughly, enjoyed it. The only time that we've ever had an issue with this gasser in windy conditions, was when there was a 60+mph wind (and crazy dust storm) as we passed through Amarillo. It was time to pull into a local rv park, and stay awhile. Otherwise, no issues with wind, or passing trucks. The front engine noise isn't loud at all. The optional Sumo springs came with this rig. Otherwise, I haven't added any after-market pieces. I haven't driven gassers from other manufacturers, but I've driven 18k miles in this motorhome, and this manufacturer did a great job on the build. I've had great experiences with the manufacturer, and local dealership service, during the time that I've owned this motorhome.

HighDesert 05-22-2020 01:25 PM

The older gas coaches are screamers when pulling grades. The newer coaches are much better and quieter. Probably oa combination of 6 speed and better build. Our 35' Tiffin, with the V10 does a very good job for us. Pulls the passes good towing a JKS Sahara. I'm happy with it and looked at both gas and diesel when we purchased new last year.

TomsMaHauL 05-23-2020 12:37 PM

I agree with HighDesert.
We went from Louisiana to Williams (Az), the Grand Canyon and back home, with no issues. I had to join the 18 wheelers in the right (slow) lane on some stretches of I40 between Amarillo & Flagstaff, but it was smooth sailin' with no issues. I'm never in a hurry. The V10 is the first Ford powerplant that I've ever owned, and I've been highly impressed with it. We're 240ft above sea level here in N. Louisiana, and we ended up 7,000 feet above sea level during that westward journey. The engine performed very well with the 6 speed transmission (using tow/haul mode the entire time). We learned that unopened potato chip bags swell like basketballs, with extreme elevation changes, and when my wife went to use the hand lotion container, the stuff exploded out of the nozzle.

Urban Hermit 05-23-2020 05:10 PM

1999 F53, V10, five-speed (? I think--maybe four -- how quickly I forget) Itasca Sunflyer 34. Feels like it'll run off and leave our just-acquired 2006 Cummins 5.9 rail with 5-speed Allison in a Monaco Cayman 36, but I may be being fooled by the so-much-quieter and heavier coach seeming to move slower than it does. That's on flat road. I haven't formed an opinion yet about hills but I think the Monaco holds speed better. I've only driven it 750 highway miles bringing it home five weeks ago; it's been in three shops since. But: if you can afford it and you're going over, say, 32, I'd recommend a diesel pusher for the quiet. The other is my first experience with a V10, which sounds like a V8 turning 25% faster than it is -- 2500 sounds like 3100 -- and makes me nervous. Much more relaxed and therefore safer in the diesel.

POPPASMURF 05-23-2020 06:08 PM

Almost all gas engines used in MH chassis have been transplanted from pickup trucks, similarly the transmissions that go with them. In no case have any of the big 3 offered an industrial quality gas engine. They were not primarily designed to haul 20plus lbs without compromise. For the most part the transmissions are the same as they offered in their pickup lines, the engines as well. The biggest saving grace is that we don't pile on the miles in our RV's to obliterate the reliability. With the big block diesels, the engine, the transmissions, and the rest of the running gear are designed and built to push around the kind of weight we overload our RV's with. I too have owned many gas powered and diesel powered MH. The one thing i can say for certain, there is a huge disparity in the kind of power gas engines offered make, compared to very similar engines designed for heavy truck applications. The torque produced by the old 427 truck engine as used in tandem axle dump trucks is far superior to that provided by the common 454 from light truck lineage.

twinboat 05-23-2020 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A32Deuce (Post 5272370)
10 speed keeps the engine in the sweet spot of the torque curve!

And diesels don't have sweet spots ?

10 gears is a gas saving gimic for lightly loaded vehicles. Load them up and you'll never see all 10.

A32Deuce 05-23-2020 06:35 PM

I only know what I read about the new Ford V8. I never said anything about oil burners, just the new gas engine and how it is set up from Ford. I could care less about oil burners, drove them go 37 years.

Filthy-Beast 05-23-2020 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5272270)
10 speed in a pickup, maybe but there is no talk of a 10 speed in MHs. They are starting with the 6 speed.

Ever wonder why diesels still run 6 speed automatics ? With torque, you don't need gears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A32Deuce (Post 5272370)
10 speed keeps the engine in the sweet spot of the torque curve!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRUSA14 (Post 5273329)
Yes, except that the sweet spot for torque on most gas engines is around 3000-4000 RPM, whereas in diesels it is around 1500 RPM. Which makes for a much more pleasant drive in the diesel.

My F350 6.7L diesel is a 10 speed

TimmyB 05-25-2020 11:40 AM

I would have preferred to get a DP, simply because of the greater towing and quieter ride. However, once I started comparing apples to apples, I found that I'd be spending 25% more and not really gaining that much from a towing standpoint. Only when you got into the seriously big rigs with two rear axles did the towing numbers jump and then that 25% number became closer to 50%! Would I still love to have one? Sure. But, we're two retired teachers; not in our budget range! :)

We ended up with a 37' on the F53 chassis. Pulling a nearly 5k Ford Explorer through the Appalachians from FL to MI was no problem at all. A bit louder than we liked when it dropped into fourth gear, but you just get used to that. I'll probably put some extra soundproofing in this summer, but as far as handling the nearly 29,000 pounds, it was fine.

Tha_Rooster 05-25-2020 01:39 PM

My previous 2004 MH 37 ft on a ford chassis, ninety percent of the time it did just fine but I was pulling my toad climbing a mountain in first flat out nothing left hoping I would make to top.

Bigdogboogie 05-25-2020 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster (Post 5277637)
My previous 2004 MH 37 ft on a ford chassis, ninety percent of the time it did just fine but I was pulling my toad climbing a mountain in first flat out nothing left hoping I would make to top.


Was that with the 4 or 5 speed transmission?

Tha_Rooster 05-25-2020 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdogboogie (Post 5277674)
Was that with the 4 or 5 speed transmission?



4 speed back then

Ray,IN 05-25-2020 08:27 PM

2008 37' gas pusher motorhome From what I have read, the main issue was lack of torque compared to the same HP diesel engine. You see the engine specs= HP and torque in that add, for comparison a 350 HP diesel engine has 1,000 lb/ft torque.

NXR 05-25-2020 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide (Post 5272073)
Seen one in a park that had 4 storage bays, behind the rear axle. Had to have been at least 12' of overhang!

I wouldn't want to be behind the wheel of that thing in the wind!

My gasser overhang is in fact 12' on a 242" wheelbase. Crosswinds, strong winds, no problems.

Ray

Our05Winneba 05-28-2020 03:04 PM

There is no limit. Most gasoline powered motor homes tend to be <40' though.

We own and drive all over the country, towing a Honda CRV toad, with our 38' Winnebago Adventurer. Powered by the GMC 8.1l gas engine on the Workhorse chassis. I suppose the biggest limitation between a gas or diesel chassis might be in their overall towing capacity. Ours (and most gas motor homes I believe) is limited to 5,000 lbs. Most diesels (I believe) are 10,000 lbs.

For our purposes driving a gasoline motor home suites our needs just fine. Gasoline is cheap these days - much less than diesel fuel. There seem to be more gas stations around than diesel.

But the biggest factor - by far - is the initial cost of the RV. Gasoline motor homes cost significantly less that a similar diesel. You can buy many good used gas motor homes for <$50k, while many used diesels seem to run at least $100k. There are also maintenance costs - which are higher for diesel units.

As for trim levels - yes many diesels offer a higher level of trim (better wood, glossy finishes, tile floors, etc.) BUT at a much higher price. And there are many very nice gasoline units as well. Our Adventurer was (and still is) considered to be the top of the line gasoline model Winnebago offered. That meant Corian counters, nice wood cabinets, and many amenities which closely match many diesel models.

As for gasoline brands - having visited all at many RV shows and dealers, and talking to many owners - Newmar is the best, followed closely by Winnebago. Some of the new Entegra gas seem very nice and well equipped. But avoid Thor products at all cost - for many reasons. (poor build quality, poor customer support, poor product support).

Not sure this is the type of information you need- but it's my 2 cents.

hookjockey 05-28-2020 03:08 PM

diesel all the way
 
If you are going to travel the country, which includes some pretty high mountains, you should go with a turbo diesel. Gas just can't provide the kind of power needed at altitude. My turbo diesel rarely sees a hill that makes it lose speed here in the Rockies. Even a large naturally aspirated gas engine would have a great deal of trouble.

Captn John 05-28-2020 03:12 PM

My uncle always said if you have a gasser you love it and it’s great. If you have a diesel you know better and be quiet and let them be happy. ��

Xmcdog 05-28-2020 03:39 PM

Nothing like the sound of a diesel muttering away in the background.
:popcorn:

Grandpa5x 05-28-2020 04:17 PM

I have a 38’ Newmar Mountain Aire with the 8.1L gas engine and 5 spd Allison that does fine, I’ve been in some areas where I had some steep inclines and never had a problem, I also can but don’t cruise at 70+ all day. At 62 mph on the cruise control I get 8-9 mpg unless I’m in hill country. The engine runs at 2300 rpm in OD with the torque converter locked with no problems.

J79Eng 05-28-2020 04:21 PM

Too big for gas is an opinion!
 
If the MH was too big for gas it would not be mfg that way. Towing a 5th wheel should be based on weight and max allowed by the tow vehicle. We have 38 ft workhorse, SunVoyager with 3 sldes and a on board Gen. we also tow a 2012 GMC Terrain. We can’t do 65 up a steep grade without straining the engine but it can go 50 mph and maintain it. As a 53 year engineer/mechanic my ears and common sense tells me how much to push the RPM gage, I keep it below 4K mostly and cruise at 2.1k. Will a Diesel pull or push more, yes but a Diesel Pusher MH costs more o purchase and the annual up keep, if done correctly and safely will cost double the annual maintenance cost of a Gas MH at minimum.
This year I will spend $3.5k but it’s a 2005 model and I expected the cost and much cheaper then purchasing a newer model costing $50 to 90k. At 72 I purchase what I need not what I desire persuaded by dealers.

Pandion 05-28-2020 05:04 PM

Anything. We had a 23ft E-350 based Class C with the 7.1 V-8, and even in relatively flat FL, it was constantly downshifting and screaming to get up even the small rollers on I-10 or I-75. I limited my speed to 65 and still the best mpg I ever got was 8.1. Our 38ft Class A with a relatively small 275hp 5.9l ISB is a dream in comparison. Best run was 12mpg and don't forget downhills with an exhaust brake.

tjmat 05-28-2020 05:59 PM

Agree with Our05Winneba
 
Our05Winneba captured my thoughts very well. For me, the initial price was the biggest factor. We wanted to get the best rig that suited our needs and was within budget. We accomplished that very well with the 2017 Jayco Precept at 32 feet (pre-Thor era) and towing a Ford Focus. We've had no problems at all with the power or reliability of the engine/chassis. Have to take some hills at 45 mph, but those are rare. An extra 15-20 minutes travel time every couple of thousand miles or so is not a big deal. My only complaint is the long overhang. I have to be careful going into some driveways or the hitch for the towbar can drag a bit.

Walt Graham 05-28-2020 06:30 PM

In the old days the only engine for even large trucks was gas but darn they had more cubic inches and had the torque at lower rpm than todays gas motors. As time progressed things changed and diesels took over as well as the type of transmissions. In some of todays over the road trucks you don't find a 14 speed manual but an automatic.... go figure !!!! I'm not sure if it's taste but you can find large boats with diesels and also a 40 foot center consul with 4 gas outboards.... maybe it's the need for speed.

Pixelbum 05-28-2020 07:12 PM

RV too big for gas?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmen (Post 5271964)
Can some of you tell me your opinions on what point is the RV too big for a gas engine? Thanks.

GOOD QUESTION! I'm sure you are going to be blasted with a LOT of opinions on
this one, so good luck! My only concern is if your wallet is
going to be BIG enuf to support a guzzling gas engine
pulling or pushing(?) that kind of weight around? Hate them
or love them, torquey Diesels are the engine of preference!
Ask any semi-trucker out there! Sorry...:anyone:?

UFO Pilot 05-28-2020 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixelbum (Post 5281922)
GOOD QUESTION! I'm sure you are going to be blasted with a LOT of opinions on
this one, so good luck! My only concern is if your wallet is
going to be BIG enuf to support a guzzling gas engine
pulling or pushing(?) that kind of weight around? Hate them
or love them, torquey Diesels are the engine of preference!
Ask any semi-trucker out there! Sorry...:anyone:?

I get around 7 MPG with my gas pusher and the money I saved upfront over a diesel has purchased a lot of gas. My oil & filter change cost me about $45, what does yours cost you?

NLOVNIT 05-28-2020 07:42 PM

Stick to the subject folks. This is NOT a diesel vs gas thread. Take that discussion to a new thread if you want to debate that.

Lori-

Unicorn Driver 05-28-2020 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 5278104)
2008 37' gas pusher motorhome From what I have read, the main issue was lack of torque compared to the same HP diesel engine. You see the engine specs= HP and torque in that add, for comparison a 350 HP diesel engine has 1,000 lb/ft torque.

I have exact same coach :-)

Earl II 05-28-2020 08:21 PM

Gas
 
Nothing but my personal opinion.... no math involved. Ours is 31' 11" with the 3 valve V-10. I wouldn't buy anything over 34' with the gas engine and the GVW of the chassis. Only my personal opinion. We are pretty happy with our 3124 Bay Star and even towed the Jeep Wrangler up the Cajon Pass. Got over the pass at about 42 MPH at about 3500+ rpms. Going down the other way took some practice with the brakes, taking it off of TOW/HAUL so the rpms didn't run up over 4500.... A good trip. Seriously, if I were thinking of something longer and heavier I would have to accept that a diesel pusher would be safer, no cheaper, but safer. On a final note, this is our final Class A. Done spending more money.

Ukulele doc 05-28-2020 08:30 PM

34’8.1 workhorse
 
My 34-35 workhorse w22 5speed is a pleasure to drive and I tow a Honda Element. Oregon to Tucson trips no problems. Usually we go 150 - 350 mile trips. Use your gears ! Drive safe !

HDGoose 05-28-2020 08:39 PM

IMHO it depends on preference and how many miles you'll travel.



I just bought a new 2020 RAM 3500 diesel which will pull my next trailer just fine.

Lyndajo 05-28-2020 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waiter21 (Post 5272403)
My 270hp F53 V10 with 4 speed works just fine on my 35 ft Southwind, 22k lbs gross when loaded.

I can't run up I-70 to the Eisenhower tunnel at the posted speed limit, but I get up there.

I have seen very few moving vehicles that can run up I-70 to the Eisenhower tunnel at the posted speed limit unless it was or is a motorcycle.:2funny:

Dany 05-29-2020 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyndajo (Post 5282126)
I have seen very few moving vehicles that can run up I-70 to the Eisenhower tunnel at the posted speed limit unless it was or is a motorcycle.:2funny:

Passed through this route last winter , I have. A v8 engine with 275 hp gasser, and I can tell you that not a truck or car passed me on the way up , but on the way down they other side de Diesel engine would have been great to slow me down, that being said my rig is 39 foot with a tag axle , and apart from the breaking power of a Diesel engine I find that the motor is good enough for my needs


That being said my main input would be that the important thing to remember is the different type of équipement ,
tag axle for extra weight capacity
Pneumatic suspension for added comfort
Pneumatic brake for added force of brake

To me if you have the right equipment to you size any size fits your needs

MEC57 05-29-2020 05:15 AM

38' Gasser does well
 
Have a 38' Southwind with a great Chevy V8. Pulls a Chevy Colorado and certainly costs me less than a DP to run and maintain. If I ever desire to move up in length, I'd consider a DP, but most likely won't move up. Just 2 of us using our MH.

I test drove a 40' DP and the difference in driveability was just not worth the extra short and long term cost. IMHO.

turbobill 05-29-2020 07:11 AM

Finally someone understands the diesels torque advantage is the turbocharger.........NOTHING ELSE!!! lol.


Besides Ford turbocharging a V6 truck engine, no one else is doing anything like that .....yet. A turbocharged gasoline big block would pull with the diesels and outrun the diesel in a horsepower race.


In the mid 80's, I turbocharged a Chevy 454 in a one ton, geared for low RPM's on the highway and got 50% better fuel mileage than the naturally aspirated 454/one tons and left them on the hills.....with the same loads.



Today's fuel/ignition technology with a turbo on a gasoline big block would be a better way to go as far as I'm concerned!

twinboat 05-29-2020 09:12 AM

Back in the day, turbochargers weren't always used on diesels. Lots of NA ( naturally aspirated ) diesel engines.

Most RV diesel generators are NA.

Its the cubic inch that makes torque. We had a bunch of NA 855 cubic inch Cummins that pulled 10 wheel garbage trucks everyday.

If you want long life, there is no replacement for displacement.

jeddpearl 05-29-2020 10:46 AM

Our V10, 320hp, 6.8L gasser works great on our 38', 22,000# MH. We have the 6 speed transmission which helps quite a bit.

jeddpearl 05-29-2020 11:01 AM

Same exact MH and no problems here, as well.

Old Scout 05-29-2020 11:59 AM

To be fair, you probably need to do an "apples to apples" comparison of similar coaches in similar conditions--one a gasser and one a diesel....the problem with low expectations is that its harder to be disappointed.....[smile]

Azmiike 05-29-2020 01:20 PM

36 foot Workhorse pulling Wrangler. Never saw a gas station it didn't want to visit. However, with the trade of between fuel, DEF and maintenance costs, personally I am happy. This is one of those things that there will never be a total agreement on.

TimmyB 05-29-2020 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Scout (Post 5282819)
To be fair, you probably need to do an "apples to apples" comparison of similar coaches in similar conditions--one a gasser and one a diesel....the problem with low expectations is that its harder to be disappointed.....[smile]

We did that in our search. Fleetwood has a model in the Pace Arrow series which is pretty similar to our Bounder. It would gain us about 5,000 pounds of GVWR and an additional 5,000 pounds of towing capacity. Unfortunately, the price is approximately 35% higher! For us, that would be a huge deal-breaker. Again, would I love to have that engine in the back, instead of roaring under my feet? Sure. For an additional $40-50K, not a great value. Our rig does everything we want it to, and if it doesn't, we'll get creative!

Unplanned Tourist 05-29-2020 08:39 PM

We have a 2008 Winnebago Adventurer 38J that's just shy of 39 feet.

The 8.1 Chevy/6 speed Allison works just fine. (Full Banks intake, exhaust and PCM upgrade)

We pulled my 2010 Ranger with bicycles in the back to Nova Scotia and back without any problems.

Averaged just under 10 mpg (Imperial) for the >15,000 km trip.

I wouldn't want to be longer or heavier, but it goes along just fine for us.

The price is right too! :thumb:

I'm not looking forward to when we have to replace the 22.5 tires, but that's about the only expense that is even close to comparing with a DP. :whistling:

Happy Glamping.

hipower65 05-30-2020 09:58 AM

Interesting question that has no universal answer.

My personal break point would be about 34-36 feet and 22K gvw. What makes that decision for me is actually less engine and more chassis. As coach owners, we too often expect a coach to ride, handle and perform like a car or light truck. Sadly unrealistic expectations.

We currently have a 40 ft. Dutchstar 4050 with over 100k on it. It does everything we need and then some. It's not inexpensive to own and operate but also not beyond expectations either.

If I had the opportunity to design and build what I would call the ideal coach for us it would be this: 40 ft. gas pusher chassis, 22.5 rubber on aluminum wheels, two axles, 36,000 GVW on air ride with air brakes. At least two slides and a front entry door wide enough to get larger items through it than current designs afford. The problem with that thinking is the cost for it would be too close to a similar chassis powered by a diesel engine.

The Workhorse UFO chassis was as close to ideal as I have seen in my years of RVing. Unfortunately not enough manufacturers offered it and I wasn't in the market for a coach when they were available.

My opinions are certainly slanted by many years of owning and operating heavy trucks. Beginning in a time when diesel engines were just making a dent in the market at 190-205 hp and we were running many gas engines like 450 ci International inline six cylinders or 549 ci International, 534 ci Ford and 427 ci Chevy V8's loading steel out of Pittsburgh and Weirton, WVA at gvw's well into 70k + gross eirght. All backed by five speed transmissions and two speed rears or five speed and three speed auxiliary transmissions. Different times for sure, but far from bad times.

Jpcoleman 05-30-2020 07:08 PM

Suncruiser 38Q was too big.
 
Our first coach was a 2016 Suncruiser 38Q. Bought for price and “new”. It was way too big for the F53 chassis. We did go over Eisenhower pass on 70 towing a malibu on way to Las Vegas and it did make it, but barely. I averaged 5-5.8 mpg depending if I was towing. That was going 65mph. It sounded like it wanted to die, but I was told this was normal.

Our current coach is 2016 Entegra Anthem, bought used. No comparison.

turbobill 05-30-2020 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5282612)
Back in the day, turbochargers weren't always used on diesels. Lots of NA ( naturally aspirated ) diesel engines.

Most RV diesel generators are NA.

Its the cubic inch that makes torque. We had a bunch of NA 855 cubic inch Cummins that pulled 10 wheel garbage trucks everyday.

If you want long life, there is no replacement for displacement.




Back in the day, the naturally aspirated 4 cycle diesels were out powered by the same cubic inch gasoline engines too. The turbocharger saved the diesel from extinction in many uses. Cubic inch for cubic inch and manifold pressure being equal, a gasoline engine out torques AND way out horsepower's a diesel engine.



A naturally aspirated diesel today couldn't begin to compare in power output with modern gasoline engines (of equal displacement) first of all, and second of all without the excess air from artificial aspiration, would never pass emissions either.


Cubic inches isn't the only thing that makes torque. Torque is also a function of BMEP. BMEP varies mainly with aspiration pressure, irregardless of displacement.


Interesting you mention the 855 Cummins. My M923A1 military 5 ton has one (NH250) while the later versions or those trucks have the turbocharged 8.3 C series. Day and night difference between the two engines. The 8.3 feels much stronger and gets better mileage, despite it's smaller displacement and 240HP rating.



I also have a large dump truck with a gasoline engine rated at 257 HP. At the same weights, there is no difference in performance between the two trucks and the gasoline engine is 377 cubic inches smaller.



Long life has nothing to do with displacement. If that statement was true, then today's smaller turbocharged engines would have shorter lifespans than the old big diesels. In truth, they last longer.



In the days before artificial aspiration, diesels had to be large displacement to make enough power to compete with gasoline engines. AND the heavy duty gasoline engines back then seldom had compression ratio's over 7:1. With today's compression ratio's along with modern engine management systems, a naturally aspirated gasoline engine would put to shame a naturally aspirated diesel of the same displacement in horsepower and torque.



The diesel engines ONLY claim to fame is it's higher thermal efficiency, nothing else. And with the difference in fuel prices in many parts of the country, the fuel cost per mile is a wash between diesel and gas. And after you add in the maintenance/repair/emission equipment costs associated with modern diesels, for many, they are a money sucking money losing proposition all the way around!

Unicorn Driver 06-01-2020 08:00 PM

I have a 37 ft class A rear engine gas and its drives very well

Donskiman 06-01-2020 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmen (Post 5271964)
Can some of you tell me your opinions on what point is the RV too big for a gas engine? Thanks.

The answer seems to be 40 feet. Less than 40 feet can be handled with gas, more than 40 not so much. Since the biggest gassers don't tend to get much past 39 feet, there wouldn't be many options for a gasser over 40 feet. Gassers in the 37-39 foot range have been around for years. Many people like them. What are you looking for?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.