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envy23 06-14-2020 02:47 PM

TT-30R wiring help
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi,
I been running 50ft of 10 ga. extension cord (5-15P house outlet) with an adapter to my TT-30R.

I am looking to upgrade the circuit and running a TT-30R from the power grid directly to a 4x4 post.

Here is a picture of the existing line

Black wire directly power a 20A circuit / breaker.
Red wire also power a separate 20A circuit/breaker.

How is the typical 30A TT-30R wire in this case ?



TIA,

twinboat 06-14-2020 03:04 PM

TT30 and all 30 amp RVs are 120 volt only. 1 ( one ) hot line a neutral and a ground.

It is nothing more then then 10 amps more then a 20 amp house plug.

That box looks like its wired for 240 volts, black= hot, red=hot and white= neutral.

You want to only use one hot, red or black, and the neutral plus a ground.

With that box, being bonded to neutral and grounded, you should be able to tie both your neutral and ground of your TT30 outlet together in there.

waroland 06-14-2020 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envy23 (Post 5303930)
Hi,

I been running 50ft of 10 ga. extension cord (5-15P house outlet) with an adapter to my TT-30R.



I am looking to upgrade the circuit and running a TT-30R from the power grid directly to a 4x4 post.



Here is a picture of the existing line



Black wire directly power a 20A circuit / breaker.

Red wire also power a separate 20A circuit/breaker.



How is the typical 30A TT-30R wire in this case ?







TIA,



This box is a disaster about to happen. You need to get this reworked to code. Maybe with a new box with circuit breakers. The 3rd fuse holder is being used as a ground/neutral tie point. Get an electrician to wire it properly.

Solo_RV_Guy 06-14-2020 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5303949)
TT30 and all 30 amp RVs are 120 volt only. 1 ( one ) hot line a neutral and a ground.

It is nothing more then then 10 amps more then a 20 amp house plug.

That box looks like its wired for 240 volts, black= hot, red=hot and white= neutral.

You want to only use one hot, red or black, and the neutral plus a ground.

With that box, being bonded to neutral and grounded, you should be able to tie both your neutral and ground of your TT30 outlet together in there.


Unless it's fed directly from a meter or step down transformer, that box should be considered a sub-panel and neutral / ground should NOT be bonded inside it. That said, you are 100% right about this being wired for 120/240V service. It has 1 more hot leg than is necessary for the RV-30.

Piros1 06-14-2020 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envy23 (Post 5303930)
Hi,
I been running 50ft of 10 ga. extension cord (5-15P house outlet) with an adapter to my TT-30R.

I am looking to upgrade the circuit and running a TT-30R from the power grid directly to a 4x4 post.

Here is a picture of the existing line

Black wire directly power a 20A circuit / breaker.
Red wire also power a separate 20A circuit/breaker.

How is the typical 30A TT-30R wire in this case ?



TIA,

I guess my response here will be somewhat redundant, all the respondents are correct. First it can be made to work as us but you need to change the neutral and grounds to lug into the side ground bar. Personally I v would replace the box with an updated breaker box and wire in a 30 amp RV receptacle and a 15/20 amp receptacle and add a 8í driven ground to the new box. If you savoy with electric I you will know the rest if not I would recommend having a competent electrician do this for you. I donít want to advise in more depth because I donít know what size wire is feeding the panel or what size breaker or fuse is protecting it at the source. What you have is a 3 phase panel wired in single phase 240 volt using the third phase fuse holder as a grounding lug. This allows for a ground/neutral failure which can be deadly if you or someone rose become the path to a ground source. Not trying to scare you but you do need to correct this regardless if you replace the box or rewrite it.

hohenwald48 06-15-2020 06:32 AM

I'm always hesitant to weigh in on these kinds of threads. I figure if you have to ask this kind of question, you probably should not be doing this work.

I'm all in favor of folks learning how to DIY. However, wiring lessons are best when taught face to face and not by persons on a forum with questionable qualifications.

egwilly 06-15-2020 08:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Like others mentioned, if you are not familiar with electrical wiring, please contract this out. Toss that box and buy a good sub-panel from HD or Lowes. You need breakers, not the old school round fuses.

Here is a good website on what needs to be done.....

https://www.hunker.com/13414221/how-...-amp-sub-panel

Attachment 289690

envy23 06-16-2020 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piros1 (Post 5304506)
I guess my response here will be somewhat redundant, all the respondents are correct. First it can be made to work as us but you need to change the neutral and grounds to lug into the side ground bar. Personally I v would replace the box with an updated breaker box and wire in a 30 amp RV receptacle and a 15/20 amp receptacle and add a 8í driven ground to the new box. If you savoy with electric I you will know the rest if not I would recommend having a competent electrician do this for you. I donít want to advise in more depth because I donít know what size wire is feeding the panel or what size breaker or fuse is protecting it at the source. What you have is a 3 phase panel wired in single phase 240 volt using the third phase fuse holder as a grounding lug. This allows for a ground/neutral failure which can be deadly if you or someone rose become the path to a ground source. Not trying to scare you but you do need to correct this regardless if you replace the box or rewrite it.

Thanks Piros1 :bow:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy (Post 5304090)
Unless it's fed directly from a meter or step down transformer, that box should be considered a sub-panel and neutral / ground should NOT be bonded inside it. That said, you are 100% right about this being wired for 120/240V service. It has 1 more hot leg than is necessary for the RV-30.

I would not know about sub-panel, Solo_RV_Guy : from visual inspection, the supplied power coming from two red / black wires plus an open/bare wire, and this directly next to the electrical meter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5303949)
TT30 and all 30 amp RVs are 120 volt only. 1 ( one ) hot line a neutral and a ground.

It is nothing more then then 10 amps more then a 20 amp house plug.

That box looks like its wired for 240 volts, black= hot, red=hot and white= neutral.

You want to only use one hot, red or black, and the neutral plus a ground.

With that box, being bonded to neutral and grounded, you should be able to tie both your neutral and ground of your TT30 outlet together in there.

Thanks Twinboat,

Quote:

Originally Posted by hohenwald48 (Post 5304814)
I'm always hesitant to weigh in on these kinds of threads. I figure if you have to ask this kind of question, you probably should not be doing this work.

I'm all in favor of folks learning how to DIY. However, wiring lessons are best when taught face to face and not by persons on a forum with questionable qualifications.

Thank hohenwald48, I am with you :bow:
the hope of this discussion is not about who doing the work, but about how to retrofit a existing circuit, whether this was done correctly at that time ( +80 years old property) to may be current code and still preserved safety... Note this may have to be wire way back then from 100 % qualified electrical professional.. I hope to gain proper knowledge to make sure it being done correctly by the so call professional today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by egwilly (Post 5304974)
Like others mentioned, if you are not familiar with electrical wiring, please contract this out. Toss that box and buy a good sub-panel from HD or Lowes. You need breakers, not the old school round fuses.

Here is a good website on what needs to be done.....

https://www.hunker.com/13414221/how-...-amp-sub-panel

Attachment 289690

Thank egwilly, I know more about neutral and ground today.

jacwjames 06-16-2020 07:21 AM

Is there a disconnect switch at the meter to isolate this box. If not the incoming wires into the the top of the box will always be hot.

So if you are working in the box there is potential to come in contact with a hot wire. Safety First.



Although I had some electrical knowledge I had to do quite a bit of research when I decided to wire my new house. I live in TN where the home owner can do this. You still have to get all the permits and follow the codes but it is doable.
As a result I decided to add a safety disconnect between the meter and my service panels. That way I can completely isolate any circuit to work on it without fear of power coming to the panel.

FWIW, I added an RV panel in my parking area that has a 50/30/20 amp plug. Since this is a subpanel the ground and neutral are kept separate. The bonding is only at the primary panel.



Good Luck
Safe Travels

envy23 06-16-2020 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacwjames (Post 5306458)
Is there a disconnect switch at the meter to isolate this box. If not the incoming wires into the the top of the box will always be hot.

So if you are working in the box there is potential to come in contact with a hot wire. Safety First.



Although I had some electrical knowledge I had to do quite a bit of research when I decided to wire my new house. I live in TN where the home owner can do this. You still have to get all the permits and follow the codes but it is doable.
As a result I decided to add a safety disconnect between the meter and my service panels. That way I can completely isolate any circuit to work on it without fear of power coming to the panel.

FWIW, I added an RV panel in my parking area that has a 50/30/20 amp plug. Since this is a subpanel the ground and neutral are kept separate. The bonding is only at the primary panel.



Good Luck
Safe Travels

Thanks jacwjames, l look and there is a pull switch so I will pay attention to the process ....

envy23 06-16-2020 11:31 AM

and also a new DMM with clamp on amp reading--
 
Since all of the change is to fix:
1. Create a safe connection instead of running extension cord around the yard.
2. Provide a permanent 30A current for both AC/microwave to perform when needed instead of 15A limitation .

I am purchasing a
KAIWEETS Digital Clamp Meter T-RMS 6000 Counts, Multimeter Voltage Tester Auto-ranging, Measures Current Voltage Temperature Capacitance Resistance Diodes Continuity Duty-Cycle (AC/DC CURRENT)

This will provide me to clamp on the hot wire (existing 15A) and check to see how much current my RV actually draw, this will also validate how much it will draw once I am on the 30A with real TT-30R.

And thanks for all to clearly identify the circuit are actually 240V : I have an electrician who say this is 120V once I send him the picture...:D

EV-

KanzKran 06-16-2020 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envy23 (Post 5306798)
And thanks for all to clearly identify the circuit are actually 240V : I have an electrician who say this is 120V once I send him the picture...:D

It's a 120/240V feeder or service due to the presence of the neutral, assuming there's 240V between the two hots. A 240V circuit doesn't have a neutral, and a 120V circuit only has one ungrounded (hot) conductor. You can drive a 120V load (like your 30A RV), or a 240V load (like a water heater or welding machine), or a 120/240V load (like a range or cooktop or oven or clothes dryer or 50A RV) from it potentially. In theory, of course, as I can't tell what the wiring gauge and insulation class is, nor what's upstream of it.

And it needs to be updated, as it's a mess, which I know you're aware of. Not hard to do at all assuming its source is already properly wired.

envy23 06-17-2020 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KanzKran (Post 5306810)
It's a 120/240V feeder or service due to the presence of the neutral, assuming there's 240V between the two hots. A 240V circuit doesn't have a neutral, and a 120V circuit only has one ungrounded (hot) conductor. You can drive a 120V load (like your 30A RV), or a 240V load (like a water heater or welding machine), or a 120/240V load (like a range or cooktop or oven or clothes dryer or 50A RV) from it potentially. In theory, of course, as I can't tell what the wiring gauge and insulation class is, nor what's upstream of it.

And it needs to be updated, as it's a mess, which I know you're aware of. Not hard to do at all assuming its source is already properly wired.

Thanks KanzKran: I am aware now ... taking out the box may need a power supplier involve and I am waiting for a possible covid-19 delay.

EV-

TB673 06-17-2020 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envy23 (Post 5307640)
Thanks KanzKran: I am aware now ... taking out the box may need a power supplier involve and I am waiting for a possible covid-19 delay.

EV-

If you decide to retain the existing 3 phase switch, just remember, 30 amps #10 wire and 30 amp fuse.
By the way, the Neutral bar is to the Left of the Left fuse.
Also, the correct way to wire a 3 Phase Switch for Single Phase use is to land the Line conductors on the 2 Outer Poles and leave the Middle Pole empty. Only fuse the wire that will go to your new rv receptacle. Leave the spare fuse in the bottom of the switch for later use.
What does this switch feed now?


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