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-   -   DEF head issues and Spartan (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/def-head-issues-and-spartan-499983.html)

Butte64 08-02-2020 04:49 AM

DEF head issues and Spartan
 
My DEF head was replaced last year along with those of other owners I know. But in spite of this being a known problem the number of owners getting stuck has increased even on newer coaches. It has come to the point of hearing talk of people saying to not buy an Entegra and some owners going to dump their coach as a result of the problem or as a preventive measure.

I have not heard of this issue with other brands. Does Newmar have the same problem? How about coaches on a Freightliner chassis or Tiffin on a Powerglide chassis?

It seems to me that if Spartan does not resolve this problem for current as well as future owners that the Entegra company bottom line will suffer as well as owners. We can manage with things like air conditioners not working but getting stuck on the road is a different magnitude of problem.

brobox 08-02-2020 05:16 AM

I just had mine replaced at Cummins last week. Any vehicles using DEF have the same problem. The Service Writer had just come over from BMW, they had the same problem. There was a landscaping tractor there, I think it was a Kabota, getting a DEF sensor replaced. He said they get one of those a week for DEF sensors. Next to me was a tree trimming boom truck waiting for a DEF senor to be shipped. People that want to bail might want to stop at a Cummins shop and ask them what brand does not have DEF head problems. When I asked, they said all of them and point to the vehicles there with DEF head problems :) I can see why that Cummins shop was so fast to change my sensor, they have a lot of experience and I was the only Entegra there.

Gary.Jones 08-02-2020 06:40 AM

Most Newmars and all Entegras are built on a Spartan chassis... which is a good thing. Spartan is a generally good company. However, the DEF sensors and heads and pumps are all purchased from someone else and put on virtually all of their K2 and K3 chassis. As Chuck says, Entegra/Spartan/Cummins are not alone in this problem..... it seems everyone is having problems. Now given that, there is no excuse (except possibly COVID-19) that justifies Spartan always having empty shelves on replacements. That is inexcusable. Spartan should be triple ordering the replacement parts from the OEM knowing that they, and others have a problem that is biting a whole lot of owners.

Don't know about cars or trucks, or even what specifically is the problem with the OEM units that are on our new coaches..... does anyone know what the real problem is that is making these fail?

Gary

buddy110 08-02-2020 06:52 AM

HAs anyone done a DIY head repair? With all this chatter, I am going to order one to keep on hand

Magic-carpet 08-02-2020 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddy110 (Post 5377295)
HAs anyone done a DIY head repair? With all this chatter, I am going to order one to keep on hand

I talked to a couple out in Big Sky last summer that had a def head failure. He said that spartan shipped him a new head and he changed it out in a parking lot. They were in a Tiffin and I believe he said the hardest part was getting the tank out. The way Tiffin puts the tank in there wasn't room to pull the head out and up. Just looking at the tank, I'm fairly certain that there is room to pull it up and out on an Entegra.

brobox 08-02-2020 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddy110 (Post 5377295)
HAs anyone done a DIY head repair? With all this chatter, I am going to order one to keep on hand

I tried that, Spartan would not send it to me. Said it was emissions and had to be done by Cummins while I was under warranty. Also the Cummins derate engine code has to be cleared by Cummins, a DIY cannot do that.


Jeanne do you know how the Tiffin owner got the Cummins codes cleared? My new DEF sensor still did not read until the codes were cleared, the tech had to do it twice. The first time the DEF gauge was still amber and CEL.

buddy110 08-02-2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brobox (Post 5377383)
I tried that, Spartan would not send it to me. Said it was emissions and had to be done by Cummins. Also the Cummins derate engine code has to be cleared by Cummins, no way a DIY can do that.

Does the presence of a code prevent the coach from running once the head is swapped?

brobox 08-02-2020 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddy110 (Post 5377391)
Does the presence of a code prevent the coach from running once the head is swapped?

It will still run, but will soon derate from what I understand. I was told by Spartan that Palm Truck Center, my normal shop could not clear the Cummins code and that would have to be done.

bfridge 08-02-2020 08:20 AM

I had a level malfunction that could be overcome by keeping the DEF tank full.
I had derate warnings. Ordered the part from Spartan and changed it myself. Luckily that fixed my problem. Pretty simple job but you do have to drop the DEF tank to remove the sensor. Same part on ebay about $400 cheaper. Maybe I'll have the guts to try that next time.

brobox 08-02-2020 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfridge (Post 5377422)
I had a level malfunction that could be overcome by keeping the DEF tank full.
I had derate warnings. Ordered the part from Spartan and changed it myself. Luckily that fixed my problem. Pretty simple job but you do have to drop the DEF tank to remove the sensor. Same part on ebay about $400 cheaper. Maybe I'll have the guts to try that next time.

So you were able to make the change without having the Cummins code cleared?

Rollin101 08-02-2020 09:05 AM

Just make sure the new head ordered off eBay is a generation six. The generation six was installed mid 2020 and on. It is “suppose” to fix the problem they had 2017-2019.
$400 cheaper for a generation five compared to a gen six is not a good deal.

RayandWendy 08-02-2020 09:29 AM

Can you look at the installed DEF head and determine which generation it is?

I had one installed in March.

Rollin101 08-02-2020 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayandWendy (Post 5377540)
Can you look at the installed DEF head and determine which generation it is?

I had one installed in March.

You probably can, but I don’t know how. If you got it from Spartan in March it’ll be a gen six.

Gasman 2 08-02-2020 10:43 AM

Does anyone know how many different sensors are in the head? I know of : temperature, level, quality of def.

Is there just one module in the head that reports all this info.

We have been running DEF engines since 2012 and have never replace a head.
OEM equipment is Cummins/Freightliner,
Detroit Diesel/ Freightliner and Cummins/Peterbulit. Even have Internationals with Cummins now, but these are late models 2020s.

Now with that said we have had other issues with sensors in the emissions system.

Techs will tell you that the most common problem today has to do with the emissions.

Richard


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