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Ivylog 09-12-2020 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard5933 (Post 5436875)
I can respect your thoughts on this. Sometimes though, people do things just to see if they can.

I resemble that having done a DIY 1000W of solar that will never pay for itself because we only use it 40-50 days /summer as half timers.

sibe 09-13-2020 05:16 PM

I am no expert in this solar field but have spend hours researching, some for just basic chging the RV but then for my country house since I positioned it to grab 70-80% of the days sun... mainly as it was a winter getaway and spent money on windows that help letting heat in during winter and hot out in summer.. they help.. Anyway Solar is being looked at for 2022 or 2023..

Back to RV.. since this a refit.. or remodel.. and assume no propane as it is another thing to fill.... etc,, diesel to run rig and genny...

1.. mention to charge off altenator.. IMO add an altenator only to charge battery bank as you can purpose as 12v or 24v, still need regulation for litium.. since a simple 12 v that can kick up 15v is limited on watts if you start trying to step up to 24v to charge, one or other has to give...physics

The Geny is going to run a 110v charger to you are fine..

2. Power management system a must for shedding the AC load,, you start adding up 2 splits, elect water, battery charging, cooking....plus other items you fire up... the amps go up fast..

3. new AC as mini splits are more efficient meaning less watts to cool...

4. one thing not mentioned , insulated windows and more insulated in the Rv itself... Not sure how deep you are digging in but RV are energy, heat, cooling Loss monsters..

Just adding 2 heavy coats of a roof sealant / white refective on my cream colored fiberglass made a 8 degree avg drop using a infred heat reader .. blah blah.. and yes you are adding solar to cover but it can help IMO..

Goodluck and have fun .. RVing is work but rewarding..

jcussen 09-13-2020 07:39 PM

I use this to supply 120/240 on my home system. Not big enough to power everything though.
https://www.solar-electric.com/maenm...4aArxoEALw_wcB

sibe 09-14-2020 05:42 AM

I quess my brain is spit by the use of 220v,, Yes a 50amp RV is technically 220, 50Amp each but the RV rarely uses native 220, some newer may have clothes dryer or water heater.. BUT when generating power by a generator or solor ..it is about watts and total watts..

One inverter and an isolating/auto transformer can split the legs to act as an edison 3wire but.. it is still cabout watts/volts/...

AS I mentioned add up the total watts of what you wish to use at one time in your Rv and design the system from there..
even load moniters that distribute load still only have "X" watts to share and flip, like turn off hot water while 2nd AC runs etc etc.. Sure some can also fire up genny to help feed the demand for a bit... not sure if all that is part of the OP master plan..

Even the spit AC units, run on 110 or 220.. It will be 1500 watts 12.5 or 6.25 A.. or atleast 125A at 12v..

Wire sizing will become the an important part of this design...

richard5933 09-14-2020 06:58 AM

Seems like having two inverters run parallel to provide 120/240 would have at least two advantages:

1) You've got the option to run 240 mini splits, meaning that you can use one variable outside unit to run two indoor units.

and

2) Two inverters will mean smaller gauge wires between the inverters and batteries. This will make it easier to run the wires, and it will make it easier to reduce voltage drop. One large inverter will be nearly maxing out 4/0 wires when pulling full load.

Rocketman3 09-14-2020 11:46 PM

One of the issues with trying to run 240v on our motor homes is you have to engineer in it only getting 110v.
When you hook up to a 50 amp power you get 2 legs at 50 amps each but 180 degrees out of phase - so you have access to 220 volts.
But when I plug into a 30 amp, 20 amp or start my Onan QD7500 I get either 30 amps (total) on both legs in phase or 20 amps total in phase or in the case of my generator 35 amps in each leg but they are all in phase so not 220v
So you need to either use all 110v stuff or spend a lot of time and engineering to get the 220v stuff so you don’t blow it up.

richard5933 09-15-2020 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocketman3 (Post 5441059)
One of the issues with trying to run 240v on our motor homes is you have to engineer in it only getting 110v.
When you hook up to a 50 amp power you get 2 legs at 50 amps each but 180 degrees out of phase - so you have access to 220 volts.
But when I plug into a 30 amp, 20 amp or start my Onan QD7500 I get either 30 amps (total) on both legs in phase or 20 amps total in phase or in the case of my generator 35 amps in each leg but they are all in phase so not 220v
So you need to either use all 110v stuff or spend a lot of time and engineering to get the 220v stuff so you donít blow it up.

Our first coach had 240v appliances. Some of the current coach being sold have 240v as well. You are correct, that those appliances will not work when plugged into 30-amp pedestals.

Here we are talking about a situation where someone is building a coach which will be able to largely run off batteries and not rely on the pedestal. It would be fairly simple to wire in 240v circuits to run things like mini-split a/c units off inverters. For times when the coach is plugged in, the 240v circuits can still be run off the inverters and the pedestal's job would be to power the battery charging side of the inverters. That would of course be power from the circuits energized by a 30-amp pedestal.

Ivylog 09-15-2020 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard5933 (Post 5439735)
Seems like having two inverters run parallel to provide 120/240 would have at least two advantages:

1) You've got the option to run 240 mini splits, meaning that you can use one variable outside unit to run two indoor units.

Might want to read up on how 240V works. You’re 240V will not be 180 out of phase to run a motor.

sibe 09-15-2020 05:28 AM

Stacking inverters that have sync capibilites will give you the 220-240 but be aware of possible nuetral unbalance , Land both nuetrals on the panel, do not comon them and run one of the same guage as the L1/L2 wires..

info here

I dont think anything in the RV will need very heavy wire/romex . on the 110 side .. short runs , branch ciruits, 20amp max , watter heater, to the splits..

the big wire will be in the solar and batteries, chargeing etc.. Soloar panels/collection wires need to be hefty.. 8-6 to even 4 guage depending on configure,, 12v voltage loss adds up fast.. and solar depends on efficiency..

richard5933 09-15-2020 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivylog (Post 5441164)
Might want to read up on how 240V works. You’re 240V will not be 180 out of phase to run a motor.

I'm aware of how 240v works. You might want to read up on stacking inverters.

I did mistakenly say the inverters would be parallel - I meant in series.

Here is one inverter/charger that has the capability to be stacked and to run 240v appliances.

Inverter Charger | Freedom SW 24V 3012 Inverter/Charger | Xantrex

n0arp 09-15-2020 08:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
You can use an Autotransformer to load balance the 120V loads across two stacked inverters configured for 240V split phase output.

Attachment 301135

I can put a 3kW load on either L1 or L2, and both inverters will see a 1.5kW load +/- <1%. The only limitation is that the imbalance can't be greater than 32A, which is roughly 3.8kW - which I've never seen in my rig in practice, using all electricity without any regard for the limitation.

Similarly, you can also use one to step up 120V sources to 240V split phase.

I have two in my system - one to load balance, and one to step up 120V sources to 240V split phase so that my stacked inverters programmed for ESS will not reject the input. They're incredibly efficient and negate most of the concerns in the last few posts here. I have both my Onan 5500LP and a dedicated 30A inlet wired to a transfer switch, with the output of the transfer switch feeding an Autotransformer wired to output 240V split phase, which then feeds 120V out of phase to each of my inverters on AC2. The factory 50A inlet feeds AC1. Both feeds run through hardwired Progressive EMS devices before the inverters - something worth mentioning since we're talking about potentially expensive equipment here.

You could even just put one between the HVAC breaker and disconnect box. It's an elegant, efficient solution to the 240V load with 120V input problem here.

You can also use them with a 240V single phase inverter, to get 120V out of it.

jcussen 09-15-2020 10:51 AM

Needs 48 volt input, but this single inverter supplies 120 and 240. If I needed more than 4400 watts, couldn't I just parallel or stack them?
What am I missing?
https://www.solar-electric.com/maenm...xoC1GIQAvD_BwE

n0arp 09-15-2020 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcussen (Post 5441521)
Needs 48 volt input, but this single inverter supplies 120 and 240. If I needed more than 4400 watts, couldn't I just parallel or stack them?
What am I missing?
https://www.solar-electric.com/maenm...xoC1GIQAvD_BwE

The transfer switch is only 30A per leg, and that's just the first thing I saw on the DS.

jcussen 09-15-2020 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0arp (Post 5441772)
The transfer switch is only 30A per leg, and that's just the first thing I saw on the DS.

So, if I needed more than 30 amps per leg, could I just parallel a second unit? Right now am nowhere needing that much current.


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