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MobyDick 04-22-2021 08:23 AM

Blown diesel engine
 
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!

jacwjames 04-22-2021 08:53 AM

It can be towed but it will cost $$$ depending on distance.



I've got AAA RV Plus which allows for up to 100 miles, I've had mine towed twice. No idea what that would have cost me, I was within 100 miles of where I need to be towed both times.

edgray 04-22-2021 09:29 AM

Why tow it home if you canít afford to fix it? May be better off to sell it where it is, and take just one hit rather than two

Mr_D 04-22-2021 09:44 AM

Any engine warranty left on your DSDP?

Xmcdog 04-22-2021 09:55 AM

Usually a diesel won't run away unless it is badly worn.
Then enough oil get past the rings to power the unit even with the fuel shut off.
Blanking off the air intake is the only way to stop it.

Might be worth taking it to a smaller shop. The big shops will price it to rebuild the entire engine. Likely in the $30-40 k range. The small shops tend to have lower labor rates and replace only what is required. Still won't be cheap though. Good luck

texasrs 04-22-2021 10:05 AM

Mr D

Not sure, but it looks like he has a 2001 model. Not likely to have any warranty left.

Ray

wolfe10 04-22-2021 10:09 AM

Ya, we really don't have enough information to be able to assist:


Don't know what engine or exactly what is wrong with it.


Don't know how far from home they are or if they have capability to work on it there.


More information would allow others to provide more assistance.

RickNC 04-22-2021 10:19 AM

Friends of mine were in the same predicament in 2019. They had a $35K book value Newmar with an engine that needed a $30k rebuild. They liked the MH enough to take the chance at fixing it, plus they had the cash n hand. So far it is working out for them.

keefr 04-22-2021 03:10 PM

It might be worth looking into a used replacement engine. Little if any warranty, but much cheaper. They appear to have at least a few months of warranty depending on source.

rssnape 04-22-2021 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5722350)
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!



How bad was the runaway? Some go to total distraction that might have taken your coach. Was someone able to get it stopped?
If it went to total destruction donít waste the labor repairing it. Finding a good used engine may be the way to go, as someone suggested.

DesertRats 04-23-2021 10:07 AM

It’s a 2001 Newmar Dutchstar. Only just over 100K, well-maintained. The engine is a 3126B, and the turbo is shot, etc. Quotes are $35-45K. It’s sitting in a Texas truck shop 250 miles away.

Traveler2162 04-23-2021 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertRats (Post 5723867)
It’s a 2001 Newmar Dutchstar. Only just over 100K, well-maintained. The engine is a 3126B, and the turbo is shot, etc. Quotes are $35-45K. It’s sitting in a Texas truck shop 250 miles away.

Used engines

One in Chicago for 9k,

Further down there is a completely rebuilt one for 14k with a year warranty.

https://www.powersystemstoday.com/li...6/engine/26000



Some listed here for under 5K

https://www.machinerytrader.com/list...ar&mdltxt=3126

Used sounds like a good deal compare to 34-35k

Fiesta48 04-23-2021 11:58 AM

I have a piece of sheet metal I can put into the intake to block off air to help stop a run away engine. Also use it to block insects, rain, etc while sitting for a long time.

wolfe10 04-23-2021 12:09 PM

Would like to hear more on the root cause of the run away (excessive RPM).


Was this on start up (in neutral)?


While in gear?


Excessive oil leakage from turbo into intake side (would need to be pretty massive)?


Throttle stuck?


Other?

SKP Kirk 04-23-2021 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertRats (Post 5723867)
Itís a 2001 Newmar Dutchstar. Only just over 100K, well-maintained. The engine is a 3126B, and the turbo is shot, etc. Quotes are $35-45K. Itís sitting in a Texas truck shop 250 miles away.

You know MobyDick and the motorhome in question?

CJ7365 04-23-2021 01:24 PM

WOW, here is a list of engines, from used, rebuilt, long block etc.....

Anywhere from $5000-$16,000

https://www.mylittlesalesman.com/cat...4c235f5m329399

desertdd 04-23-2021 05:32 PM

Another list of used engines
https://rvchassisparts.visonerv.com/...eselmotors.pl?

Traveler2162 04-23-2021 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ7365 (Post 5724096)
WOW, here is a list of engines, from used, rebuilt, long block etc.....

Anywhere from $5000-$16,000

https://www.mylittlesalesman.com/cat...4c235f5m329399


Amazing eh? If I could find a place to work (like some pavement) , some jacks and an engine hoist I would not be letting them rebuild my engine or do anything with it. Order in the used or rebuild and replace it yourself.
  • None of this is rocket science and a engine re and re is simply parts swap
  • Go talk to a local garage and see if he will let you keep the bus on the lot for 2 weeks. In fact go and see if he will do the work. You don't need to be a Cummings diesel shop to do this work. Any mechanic with tool set can do it.
  • Re and re the motor, put all the electronics back on and it should start right up. A diesel needs 3 things to run. Fuel, air and compression. You rotate it fast enough and it will start to run and will not stop until you take one of the 3 above.
  • If it does not run 100 % then take it to the shop so they can set it up a little better but I bet it is not required
  • For sure buy a shop manual because you need to know the torques

This member 08Navigator rebuilt his ISX and he had never built a diesel before and did not know much about them. Here is the thread.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cum...-a-401436.html

Now he had a heated garage but you don't need that to re and re a motor. A Harbour Freight motor lift and your away with the races.

Anyway, no need to spend 30-45k on a rebuild when rebuilds are available for 16k. Get the rebuild and have the local guy do the re and re and I bet you don't have to give him even 5k for his time.

Remember, the rebuilders are doing it all day everyday and have it down to a science and get good parts cheap, the guys at the dealership get 1 a year and its all done on the Chilton labour manual or similar with full Cummings list on the parts. A dead rabbit could replace an engine in the amount of time the labour manuals give you.

Where there is a will there is a way.

Like Red Green said. " If the girls don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy."

Paul L. 05-06-2021 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5722350)
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!

The question you asked help for 'kinda' got answered by others but most were trying to diagnose your issue or find out for their own knowledge. May not be what you were looking for....

To better help, do you have roadside assistance? If so, they may have a provision to get you home. I know the better ones do.

Do you have roadside with your insurance carrier? May be worth looking into at least.

Otherwise I may suggest you get on something like uShip, get a quote and have it brought home. That may be the least expensive option.

Hope this helps, and sorry for your situation :(

pete5016 05-06-2021 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5722350)
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!

Would love to have more details. Where did this happen? Where is home? What are going to do with the RV? What RV is this? What can be done to mitigate the damage?

So many questions....and MobyDick posted this two weeks ago. I wonder what happened.....

rthooker 05-06-2021 03:11 PM

I had the same issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5722350)
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!

I had the same issue. Have a 400 cummins that the engine blew with 55k miles. I was on my way to Alaska from Indiana. Engine blew in St Paul Mn. The quotes I got in St Paul to replace the engine were over 60K. 85 % of all RV's are made in Elkhart In. It was cheaper, by more than 50%, for me to have to Flat Bed back to In than to have it replaced there. Also, Cummins has a recall on the ISL engine if yours fits within the years and block numbers.

Denver 05-06-2021 03:31 PM

Buy my diesel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5722350)
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!

I have a 2000 Monaco. It has the 8.3l Cummins ISC 350HP. 46000 miles.

In two to three weeks I will be parking my motorhome forever at my permanent boondocking site in the high desert SW. You are welcome to bid on the engine.

The Allison is also going up on the block.

MTRCYCMAN 05-06-2021 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5722350)
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!

Where are you located and what type of rig do you have?

Twomed 05-06-2021 03:44 PM

https://www.google.com/search?q=used...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Google is not always bad...:cool:

AZ RV'r 05-06-2021 03:49 PM

Hey guys **** stop writing ****

He started this thread and hasn't been back. I checked, its 14 days since he has been logged into this site. DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME.

Scroll to the top and click his name..... click "view public profile" ...... and right under his name says.....
Last Activity: 04-22-2021 11:59 AM (just after he started this thread)

Like I said 14 days ago... He doesn't need or want our help, and hasn't read even one of your responses.

beekeeper.va 05-06-2021 04:06 PM

Another cause of diesel runaway is the seals in the turbo. The turbo uses engine oil to lubricate and cool itself. If a seal blows, the engine just drinks the oil until it is gone.

Timaz 05-06-2021 04:09 PM

Yep, don't know why people ask for help and then go MIA.

AZ RV'r 05-06-2021 04:12 PM

I know.... Thats why I made post #25

But don't worry, people wont read and still just add stuff.

Sometimes I just post.... "SEE POST #25" after the last one.

Big berd 05-06-2021 04:26 PM

Big berd
 
I had a 650 in a Monaco executive 45ft lost 2 cylinders the head lost a trip to Alaska took the heart out of us we had cumins come to our house and fix it at my house in the garage lost the turbo also the bill was 35000.00 you can have the mobile cummins guy to come and look at it towing was an issue because of the height of the coach on a flat bed to get under the bridges that is the only way to tow I believe to move a 45 ft rv with out damage. I believe that the Cummins field operation could look at that and give you some direction.
That moter I had was a 2009 also good luck my friend

lockinload 05-06-2021 05:51 PM

It's pretty irritating when people post for help and then go MIA. I have got so much help from many on this sight and try and help those looking for solutions. It kind of pisses me off when OPs do this. Maybe the mods should just lock a thread when the OP disappears, so those in the know can help others instead of having their time wasted.

craigav 05-06-2021 06:20 PM

Keep in mind that there are certainly plenty of valid reasons why someone may unintentionally go MIA for a while after asking a question, no need to be overly irritated over things like that. For me, I just hope that the op is OK, he has been a member since 2013, unlike some others who join, ask a question on post #1, and then never comes back, that is a bit different. ~Craig

dmctlc 05-06-2021 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigav (Post 5741048)
Keep in mind that there are certainly plenty of valid reasons why someone may unintentionally go MIA for a while after asking a question, no need to be overly irritated over things like that. For me, I just hope that the op is OK, he has been a member since 2013, unlike some others who join, ask a question on post #1, and then never comes back, that is a bit different. ~Craig

I have to agree perhaps the OP is busy working with someone to fix it or at least get it home. For folks to criticize someone for not getting back online when its obvious he has bigger issues to take care of then all I got to say is don't read the post! Like someone pointed out he's been a member since 2013 so let show some respect. This forum isn't for folks to throw criticism but offer advice. Let's stick to the program.:thumb:

Ray,IN 05-06-2021 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmctlc (Post 5741245)
I have to agree perhaps the OP is busy working with someone to fix it or at least get it home. For folks to criticize someone for not getting back online when its obvious he has bigger issues to take care of then all I got to say is don't read the post! Like someone pointed out he's been a member since 2013 so let show some respect. This forum isn't for folks to throw criticism but offer advice. Let's stick to the program.:thumb:

:goodjob::iagree:

rvtips 05-06-2021 10:24 PM

What does this mean [ Re and re the motor ] ?

Arch Hoagland 05-06-2021 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvtips (Post 5741317)
What does this mean [ Re and re the motor ] ?

Remove and repair.

fitzjohnfan 05-06-2021 11:17 PM

I was just playing around on Google a came across this place. Maybe they could find an engine and swap here.

https://usedrvparts.visonerv.com/cgi...-partingout.pl

Piros1 05-06-2021 11:18 PM

First I read all the post, it would suck to be in this position. Sorry for the OP and I surely hope he is getting is situation resolved in a reasonable manor.

I wonder his rig is and what engine? I seen where some posted it was a 3126 Cat. If that is what he has a really doubt it truly was a runaway unless he over ran it down a very steep grade and just over reved the engine. I own several of these in heavier trucks than most coaches with this engine and some approached 23,000 hours of run time, (thatís equivalent to approximately 1,000,000 miles) way more than we see on a Motorhome and have never seen one runaway or over rev do to a worn turbo. That was a common problem on the old Detroit two strokes but not so much on the newer engines from Cummins and Cat. Detroitís were supper charged and they had an emergency air shut off flap you could pull if it it started to run away. You donít get that with a turbo, maybe I should say not impossible but very very rare.

Hopefully the OP comes back and fills us in. Iím sure he is pretty bummed out. I wish him the best.

BobJones 05-06-2021 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvtips (Post 5741317)
What does this mean [ Re and re the motor ] ?

Remove & Replace

tinman 55 05-07-2021 12:24 AM

Im new to the diesel scene so please forgive my ignorance. I had not heard of diesel runaway until seeing this post, so I looked it up and still really don't understand how it happens. I guess it's the extra addition of fuel or oil that causes the continued running of the engine, but, isn't the regulation of fuel governed by the ECM? And, wouldn't the ECM prevent that extra addition of fuel to the engine?
Also, is there anything I should keep watch for to prevent this from happening to my coach.
Thanks everyone,

AnotherMike 05-07-2021 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinman 55 (Post 5741394)
Im new to the diesel scene so please forgive my ignorance. I had not heard of diesel runaway until seeing this post, so I looked it up and still really don't understand how it happens. I guess it's the extra addition of fuel or oil that causes the continued running of the engine, but, isn't the regulation of fuel governed by the ECM? And, wouldn't the ECM prevent that extra addition of fuel to the engine?
Also, is there anything I should keep watch for to prevent this from happening to my coach.
Thanks everyone,

I do two-way radio and some computer networking, so I have very little hands-on experience with diesels. But I can answer your question...
The one diesel I worked on used a solenoid driven shutoff valve in the line between the engine and the fuel source... either the tank or the fuel pump.

In a gas engine you shut it off by turning off the ignition. Diesel engines do not have an ignition system. The only way to shut off a diesel engine is to shut off the air or the fuel.

Now take the situation of a blown oil seal in the turbo... where the leaky seal allows lube oil to be pumped into the air intake of the engine... and acting as diesel fuel. The engine will run until there is no lube oil. The engine speed will depend on the feed rate of the lube oil. No ECM involved in this "fuel" supply.

Likewise a "dusted" engine... where the dirty / dusty air it has inhaled has gotten past the air filter and scored the cylinder walls, and the lube oil is getting past the piston rings... This is again acting as diesel fuel. If the amount of lube oil getting past the rings (frequently called "blowby") is enough then it will continue to run until there is no more lube oil. Again, no ECM involved in this "fuel" supply.

In either case the closure of the fuel cutoff solenoid valve will have no effect. At that point the only way to the engine down is to cut off the air intake. Back in the 1970s I watched a mechanic in a diesel shop lay a phone book across the turbo intake (the air cleaner was not on the engine) of a bulldozer engine, and a few years later saw a truck driver take his jacket off and zip it up across the air cleaner intake...

Generally speaking, the intake air flow from somewhere outside of the MH to the air inlet of the turbo (or engine) almost always has to make a few turns to fit into the engine compartment. That run always contains an air filter assembly somewhere. Each turn usually involves a rubber sleeve & large clamps (of some kind) to connect to the next piece of air pipe or air duct. Plus there will be another flex sleeve to connect to the turbo. A damaged air filter, a crack in the filter box, a hole in any of the air tubes, or a tear or hole in one of these connecting sleeves can result in dirty/dusty air being sucked into the engine. And any one of those air leaks could prevent the jacket or other plug from starving the engine of air.

You might want to read these threads:
https: // www.irv2.com/forums/f123/dusted-cummins-engine-473871.html

https: // www.irv2.com/forums/f123/urgent-wheres-my-oil-going-202637.html
That second one is very long (51 pages!), but VERY educational (and a good read, "piker" is a good writer).

Mike

Chargersrt8 05-07-2021 06:16 AM

He posted that the engine and trans is for sale and the rig is at his permanent site for life. Engine is dead, he is alive.

Kountry_star 05-07-2021 06:44 AM

Just did a couple of google searchs. Lots of low mileage RV diesel engines out there. Some quite reasonable. Betting you could find one close by and an independent shop that could remove and replace it for a reasonable cost. You still likely to be out a min of 9-11k.

Know you most likely know that by now just wanted to remind you to check / replace the intercooler. A friend had an engine die on him out in AZ. Newer truck / out of warranty. Debated back and forth new or salvage. Found an engine out of a truck that cargo had caught fire and burned the cab with minor fire damage to the engine. Very low mileage. Got it all replaced, fuel lines bleed. He said it fired right up ran a few minutes then started making a lot of bad noises. Long story shortened. Trashed Turbo bits and pieses where still in the inbound side of inter cooler. Pulled intake more extra bits. Pulled the head, Started looking for a replacement engine. Luckly there second choice engine was still available.

Hoping your back on the road shortly and at a semi reasonable price.

imjustdave 05-07-2021 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chargersrt8 (Post 5741503)
He posted that the engine and trans is for sale and the rig is at his permanent site for life. Engine is dead, he is alive.

Post #22 is not the same person as post #1

See post #25 as well

OP hasn't been back sense post #1 :banghead:
Last Activity: 04-22-2021 10:59 AM

dmarrs8585 05-07-2021 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland (Post 5741318)
Remove and repair.

So what's remove and replace?

Xmcdog 05-07-2021 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland (Post 5741318)
Remove and repair.

Remove and replace? Just asking.

wolfe10 05-07-2021 10:47 AM

R & R means REMOVE and REPLACE.



Can replace with same part, rebuilt part, new part, etc. This based on 35 years in the automotive field. Doesn't mean someone can't invent their own definition!

Arch Hoagland 05-07-2021 11:09 AM

R & R Remove and repair,,,,I'm an optimist

Dan50 05-07-2021 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland (Post 5741318)
Remove and repair.






Remove and replace.

Rorytug 05-07-2021 02:42 PM

The governor is a likely suspect.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfe10 (Post 5724014)
Would like to hear more on the root cause of the run away (excessive RPM).


Was this on start up (in neutral)?


While in gear?


Excessive oil leakage from turbo into intake side (would need to be pretty massive)?


Throttle stuck?


Other?


As a young man, I was a Fleet mechanic a bus company. Mostly Detroit Diesels. The number one cause of runaway back then (1980) was a worn governor. The first sign of a worn governor is surging at idle that can't be smoothed out with adjustment. Had a couple run away while trying to adjust the idle. 95% of our busses were manual transmissions so if you were fast enough, you could jump in, get it in 4th gear and dump the clutch wile sanding on the brakes.... That was always fun. I saw only one run away so bad we all ran for our lives and pistons and pieces parts flew everywhere like shrapnel!:eek:

In the 4 years I was there, we never had one runaway in the field, always in the shop. Some busses had petcocks in the fuel line so you could turn off the flow but it is surprising how much fuel is in those lines and how long it takes to suck dry.

Ljwt330 05-07-2021 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfe10 (Post 5741834)
R & R means REMOVE and REPLACE.



Can replace with same part, rebuilt part, new part, etc. This based on 35 years in the automotive field. Doesn't mean someone can't invent their own definition!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland (Post 5741859)
R & R Remove and repair,,,,I'm an optimist


LOL, I love this!


It's all from one's perspective. If you're a DIYer, it means REMOVE AND REPAIR. If you're a lazy or marginally qualified DIYer, it may never get REPLACED.:eek:


If you're a pro, it means REMOVE AND REPLACE, otherwise you don't get paid.:D

tinman 55 05-07-2021 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherMike (Post 5741398)
I do two-way radio and some computer networking, so I have very little hands-on experience with diesels. But I can answer your question...
The one diesel I worked on used a solenoid driven shutoff valve in the line between the engine and the fuel source... either the tank or the fuel pump.

In a gas engine you shut it off by turning off the ignition. Diesel engines do not have an ignition system. The only way to shut off a diesel engine is to shut off the air or the fuel.

Now take the situation of a blown oil seal in the turbo... where the leaky seal allows lube oil to be pumped into the air intake of the engine... and acting as diesel fuel. The engine will run until there is no lube oil. The engine speed will depend on the feed rate of the lube oil. No ECM involved in this "fuel" supply.

Likewise a "dusted" engine... where the dirty / dusty air it has inhaled has gotten past the air filter and scored the cylinder walls, and the lube oil is getting past the piston rings... This is again acting as diesel fuel. If the amount of lube oil getting past the rings (frequently called "blowby") is enough then it will continue to run until there is no more lube oil. Again, no ECM involved in this "fuel" supply.

In either case the closure of the fuel cutoff solenoid valve will have no effect. At that point the only way to the engine down is to cut off the air intake. Back in the 1970s I watched a mechanic in a diesel shop lay a phone book across the turbo intake (the air cleaner was not on the engine) of a bulldozer engine, and a few years later saw a truck driver take his jacket off and zip it up across the air cleaner intake...

Generally speaking, the intake air flow from somewhere outside of the MH to the air inlet of the turbo (or engine) almost always has to make a few turns to fit into the engine compartment. That run always contains an air filter assembly somewhere. Each turn usually involves a rubber sleeve & large clamps (of some kind) to connect to the next piece of air pipe or air duct. Plus there will be another flex sleeve to connect to the turbo. A damaged air filter, a crack in the filter box, a hole in any of the air tubes, or a tear or hole in one of these connecting sleeves can result in dirty/dusty air being sucked into the engine. And any one of those air leaks could prevent the jacket or other plug from starving the engine of air.

You might want to read these threads:
https: // www.irv2.com/forums/f123/dusted-cummins-engine-473871.html

https: // www.irv2.com/forums/f123/urgent-wheres-my-oil-going-202637.html
That second one is very long (51 pages!), but VERY educational (and a good read, "piker" is a good writer).

Mike

Thank you Mike for the response. I will check the links you provided but, the explanation you gave definitely cleared it up.

berkleyja 05-08-2021 07:25 AM

For MobyDick,

Shop around for the 3126B. I have replaced two engines and both were around $25000. The last engine was from a company that rebuilds engines and the engine cost about $15500 and Freightliner in Billings, MT replaced it. My coach is a 2002 Dutch Star on a Freightliner Chassis.

96 Wideglide 05-08-2021 10:25 AM

Re & Re usually means remove and replace.

augerdogger 05-08-2021 11:15 AM

Look at your investment and determine if it more cost effective to repair or part out. I would look for a used engine, most come out of OTR trucks and have been maintained with at least a 90 day warranty, you might find one out of an RV.

Keith55 05-08-2021 12:20 PM

I think Moby is busy selling his engine as "rebuilt" on craigslist.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Dutchstar53 05-08-2021 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piros1 (Post 5741369)
First I read all the post, it would suck to be in this position. Sorry for the OP and I surely hope he is getting is situation resolved in a reasonable manor.

I wonder his rig is and what engine? I seen where some posted it was a 3126 Cat. If that is what he has a really doubt it truly was a runaway unless he over ran it down a very steep grade and just over reved the engine. I own several of these in heavier trucks than most coaches with this engine and some approached 23,000 hours of run time, (thatís equivalent to approximately 1,000,000 miles) way more than we see on a Motorhome and have never seen one runaway or over rev do to a worn turbo. That was a common problem on the old Detroit two strokes but not so much on the newer engines from Cummins and Cat. Detroitís were supper charged and they had an emergency air shut off flap you could pull if it it started to run away. You donít get that with a turbo, maybe I should say not impossible but very very rare.

Hopefully the OP comes back and fills us in. Iím sure he is pretty bummed out. I wish him the best.

We have a 2002 Newmar Dutchstar. It came with the 3126B. From the start it had blowby issues. Took it to CAT & it was just within limits. Husband put various catch cans on during the years. It kept getting worse. Tow car would be covered in oil. After 175,000 miles we decided to do a new engine. Got a long block, replaced the turbo, new injectors. $35K. We were told 200k miles was limit. These engines were used in buses, dump truck not heavy haulers. Weíve 50K on new one and so far no issues.

R.G.Wise 05-09-2021 12:17 PM

over filling oil will cause run off. has that happen to diesel pickup and also one of my class trucks. Was able to block off the air intake fast enough to stop both before doing any damage.

wolfe10 05-09-2021 12:24 PM

Yup, in a 2002 Cat 3126 with standard steel pan 19 quarts is correct with filter change.


More, and it will puke out the crankcase breather.


Have seen a number of people pour in 5 gallons and wonder why 1 quart is all over the back of the coach and toad. Yes, one quart of diesel oil sprayed out will make a HUGE mess.


The issue is compounded by inaccurate dipsticks which often-times caused continual overfilling. Remember, engine oil dipsticks are NOT Caterpillar or Cummins parts. They are ordered and installed by the chassis maker and MAY be accurate (or may not).


For decades, I have recommended calibrating the engine oil dipstick at the first/next oil change. It is FREE and only takes a few extra minutes.

Keith55 05-09-2021 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfe10 (Post 5744381)
Yup, in a 2002 Cat 3126 with standard steel pan 19 quarts is correct with filter change.


More, and it will puke out the crankcase breather.


Have seen a number of people pour in 5 gallons and wonder why 1 quart is all over the back of the coach and toad. Yes, one quart of diesel oil sprayed out will make a HUGE mess.


The issue is compounded by inaccurate dipsticks which often-times caused continual overfilling. Remember, engine oil dipsticks are NOT Caterpillar or Cummins parts. They are ordered and installed by the chassis maker and MAY be accurate (or may not).


For decades, I have recommended calibrating the engine oil dipstick at the first/next oil change. It is FREE and only takes a few extra minutes.


I assume you mean to put in the manufacturer's recommended oil amount and then look at the dipstick and make a mark. This mark would be considered the new correct level?

This is a real "aha" moment for me because I always assumed the dipstick was gospel. I can think of a couple engines that never took the manufacturer's recommended amount of oil. It never occurred to me that the dip stick was wrong. I was likely over filling them although I had one that always showed high when I put the recommended amount of oil in.

No harm no foul for me because I never had a problem and likely the dipstick was only mildly out of calibration. I am a stickler for detail though.

Dutchstar53 05-09-2021 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfe10 (Post 5744381)
Yup, in a 2002 Cat 3126 with standard steel pan 19 quarts is correct with filter change.


More, and it will puke out the crankcase breather.


Have seen a number of people pour in 5 gallons and wonder why 1 quart is all over the back of the coach and toad. Yes, one quart of diesel oil sprayed out will make a HUGE mess.


The issue is compounded by inaccurate dipsticks which often-times caused continual overfilling. Remember, engine oil dipsticks are NOT Caterpillar or Cummins parts. They are ordered and installed by the chassis maker and MAY be accurate (or may not).


For decades, I have recommended calibrating the engine oil dipstick at the first/next oil change. It is FREE and only takes a few extra minutes.

Yes, my husband figured that out. We wrote near the oil filler the correct #of quarts of oil and wrote it on the service write up every time as some of the Freightliner service centers didnít seem to get the memo. Most of the time husband did the oil change himself. We still had a blowby issue.

153stars 05-10-2021 12:17 PM

I think I remember reading real old thread ,the published amount in older model Monaco 8.3 owners and dipstick were both 2-3qts. over. Owners were like after it blows out two qts it's fine the ah ha moment , they found other literature with proper amount.

Timaz 05-10-2021 11:53 PM

I put in 5 Gal. in my 8.3. Some people say 6 gal. Anything over 5 in my engine and it is blown out the breather. At 5 it doesn't burn or blow out anything. That's the add mark on my dip stick.

Tim

MobyDick 05-31-2021 04:25 PM

I am trying to respond. For some reason, I have a really difficult time on this site; I can't respond, my posts get lost.
We had the motorhome towed to OK. We're parked here now still debating. We had a quote of $30K, to "fix" the engine. Apparently, our CAT 330HP was just a "loser," in the diesel field and is no longer being used. We haven't decided what to do on it. It's a clear title, but, it's a 2001. Blue Book is just a bit over the cost of the repairs. Can't sell it without an engine, but.....do we want to take a chance on something else going? Open for suggestions. We're not spring chickens. More like 73 and 82. But. We are NOT ready to just sit in rocking chairs. This is our home. I apologize to all who thought we were ignoring your comments and time spent looking up stuff for us. It's been a bad 4 months; health-wise and motorhome-wise. No excuses, just an explanation.

GCSuper 05-31-2021 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5773299)
I am trying to respond. For some reason, I have a really difficult time on this site; I can't respond, my posts get lost.
We had the motorhome towed to OK. We're parked here now still debating. We had a quote of $30K, to "fix" the engine. Apparently, our CAT 330HP was just a "loser," in the diesel field and is no longer being used. We haven't decided what to do on it. It's a clear title, but, it's a 2001. Blue Book is just a bit over the cost of the repairs. Can't sell it without an engine, but.....do we want to take a chance on something else going? Open for suggestions. We're not spring chickens. More like 73 and 82. But. We are NOT ready to just sit in rocking chairs. This is our home. I apologize to all who thought we were ignoring your comments and time spent looking up stuff for us. It's been a bad 4 months; health-wise and motorhome-wise. No excuses, just an explanation.

Thanks for the update. Hope you guys can come up with a plan that works out. Best of luck.

Ol Putz 05-31-2021 11:03 PM

Used Engines
 
You might want to check with Colaw RV salvage in Carthage MO. They might be able to get you fixed up with a good used one. Good Luck

Piros1 05-31-2021 11:17 PM

MobyDick first I would like to say sorry to hear of the misfortunes you are dealing with, hopefully you can resolve this in an acceptable manner.

You mentioned that the Cat 330 is a loser engine. I believe that your engine is a Cat 3126E 330HP, these are actually very good engines properly maintained. I have several in my fleet in various HP ratings from 250-330. These engines require oil changes every 250 hours with a minimum of once per year, it is best to change based on hours rather than miles. I’m just telling this to give you some background of your engine.

If you and your wife really like your coach and are healthy enough to continue using it I wouldn’t hesitate to replace your engine. This is assuming your coach is in good condition. The other option is wholesale it out and move on. Neither are great but I think that is about your only options. Regardless I wish you the best.

Dutchstar53 06-01-2021 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5773299)
I am trying to respond. For some reason, I have a really difficult time on this site; I can't respond, my posts get lost.
We had the motorhome towed to OK. We're parked here now still debating. We had a quote of $30K, to "fix" the engine. Apparently, our CAT 330HP was just a "loser," in the diesel field and is no longer being used. We haven't decided what to do on it. It's a clear title, but, it's a 2001. Blue Book is just a bit over the cost of the repairs. Can't sell it without an engine, but.....do we want to take a chance on something else going? Open for suggestions. We're not spring chickens. More like 73 and 82. But. We are NOT ready to just sit in rocking chairs. This is our home. I apologize to all who thought we were ignoring your comments and time spent looking up stuff for us. It's been a bad 4 months; health-wise and motorhome-wise. No excuses, just an explanation.

We replaced our CAT330 with a 170K miles on it, with a long block that we got thru a Catepillar repair shop. Call the closest CAT dealer (check the reviews to make sure they have good customer service). You can also check Jasper Engines, they had a few when we had our issues (BTW, we changed our engine before it gave out. And yes they were a problem, lots of blowby. Ours always passed the blowby test w/CAT. Then we ran out of warranty😬).

It will cost about $30K w/labor when all done. That is cheaper than you may be able to find a new coach. If you donít have that money, Iím so sorry. Not sure what the solution is, if you want to keep traveling. Best of luck to you, with your health issues first and foremost, then resovling your motorhome issue.

Dutchstar53 06-01-2021 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piros1 (Post 5773760)
MobyDick first I would like to say sorry to hear of the misfortunes you are dealing with, hopefully you can resolve this in an acceptable manner.

You mentioned that the Cat 330 is a loser engine. I believe that your engine is a Cat 3126E 330HP, these are actually very good engines properly maintained. I have several in my fleet in various HP ratings from 250-330. These engines require oil changes every 250 hours with a minimum of once per year, it is best to change based on hours rather than miles. Iím just telling this to give you some background of your engine.

If you and your wife really like your coach and are healthy enough to continue using it I wouldnít hesitate to replace your engine. This is assuming your coach is in good condition. The other option is wholesale it out and move on. Neither are great but I think that is about your only options. Regardless I wish you the best.

Believe his would be a 3126B. We have a 2002 Newmar Dutchstar and thatís what we had in ours. See my post above. We properly maintained the coach. We alternated taking in for service for the major stuff and husband did the oil/filter change, fuel filter, air filter, etc in between. It has blowby from the get go, but would always pass the tests when we took it in for blowby testing. Husband installed catch cans that help with the oil getting all over the tow car. Finally at 170K miles we just had it replace. At 220K now and no blowby issues at all.

bpu699 06-01-2021 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5773299)
I am trying to respond. For some reason, I have a really difficult time on this site; I can't respond, my posts get lost.
We had the motorhome towed to OK. We're parked here now still debating. We had a quote of $30K, to "fix" the engine. Apparently, our CAT 330HP was just a "loser," in the diesel field and is no longer being used. We haven't decided what to do on it. It's a clear title, but, it's a 2001. Blue Book is just a bit over the cost of the repairs. Can't sell it without an engine, but.....do we want to take a chance on something else going? Open for suggestions. We're not spring chickens. More like 73 and 82. But. We are NOT ready to just sit in rocking chairs. This is our home. I apologize to all who thought we were ignoring your comments and time spent looking up stuff for us. It's been a bad 4 months; health-wise and motorhome-wise. No excuses, just an explanation.

Cat 3126 is considered one of the better diesel engines (see videos on youtube by Adept Ape). But, it doesnt have removeable cylinder linings, so rebuild is tough...

You can buy a school bus with 100k miles on it, with a 3126, for $5000. Theyre on craigslist all the time...

Pull the engine, replace...

jacwjames 06-01-2021 07:36 AM

You consider just dropping a used engine in it and take a chance. If you do a search I'm sure you could find one fairly close. It would still cost money to get it changed out but might worth the risk. Look for something in a salvage vehicle,


I did a quick search of the Visione RV sight and they have a number of Cat engines, this will at least give you an idea of cost.

https://rvchassisparts.visonerv.com/...M121319/s1.pl?


Good luck

bpu699 06-01-2021 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchstar53 (Post 5773957)
We replaced our CAT330 with a 170K miles on it, with a long block that we got thru a Catepillar repair shop. Call the closest CAT dealer (check the reviews to make sure they have good customer service). You can also check Jasper Engines, they had a few when we had our issues (BTW, we changed our engine before it gave out. And yes they were a problem, lots of blowby. Ours always passed the blowby test w/CAT. Then we ran out of warranty😬).

It will cost about $30K w/labor when all done. That is cheaper than you may be able to find a new coach. If you donít have that money, Iím so sorry. Not sure what the solution is, if you want to keep traveling. Best of luck to you, with your health issues first and foremost, then resovling your motorhome issue.

How realistic is it for a handy person to change out the motor themselves? I know on some motor homes it just slides out the back...

Piros1 06-01-2021 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 5773994)
How realistic is it for a handy person to change out the motor themselves? I know on some motor homes it just slides out the back...

It is realistic if you have a place, tools, and the mechanical knowledge to do it. They are big and heavy. This is not something you would be doing in an RV park or side of the road. I think these folks are full timers and traveling but not sure where they call home. If it were myself and I could get it home I would tackle it but I have worked on big trucks a fair amount. My company mechanic changes out these engines in our trucks in about a week to a week and a half. He is inside a shop building with a concrete floor, has the tools, and has been doing this for several years plus these are trucks not motorhomes. He is extremely particular with his work so Iím sure it could be fine faster. That said a truck is much more convenient to work on than a motorhome and the engine bay is much more accessible. If the OP has a rear radiator it is even more difficult.

I wish the OP all the best.

RightUR 06-01-2021 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobyDick (Post 5722350)
Last week, we had a runaway engine. Turns out we now have a totally blown engine. Repair costs are more than we can do. How can we get it home? TIA!

I don't know your situation. So I'll just throw this out there. I Imagine you have a Dutch star with a ISL 9 or 8.9L. If you scour the internet you can find them for $10K. If there is a mechanic around where you broke down maybe he can help put it in. Now for payment: If you're not too proud maybe someone can open up a go fund me acct for you. If that happens you or whoever opens the account can let us know. I'll be the 1st to chip in.

RightUR 06-01-2021 10:56 AM

sorry didn't know what motor you had and didn't read all the comments. Anyway i think you can still find a motor for around 10K or cheaper. I think the go fund me page could still work.

BobJones 06-01-2021 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightUR (Post 5774221)
I think the go fund me page could still work.

I think that's a good idea. I would likely take part in that myself :thumb:

Chargersrt8 06-01-2021 06:55 PM

I would be in!

Dutchstar53 06-02-2021 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 5773994)
How realistic is it for a handy person to change out the motor themselves? I know on some motor homes it just slides out the back...

If you had mechanic skills and as someone else said, you were home, maybe. However, when ours was done it had to be dropped out from the bottom of the chassis. Asked my husband about sliding out the back. He wasnít sure, but thought if you removed the end cap maybe. Sad situation, especially if OP is a full timer, which I think he is.

n2zon 06-02-2021 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 5773994)
How realistic is it for a handy person to change out the motor themselves? I know on some motor homes it just slides out the back...

In my opinion, if you have to ask the question, the answer is "No."

These things are really heavy. Our engine alone is over 3/4 ton, dry, without the transmission. The needed rigging and blocking skills are not ones you acquire overnight.

I've moved heavy stuff around (e.g., machine tools), and turned wrenches nearly my whole life, but I would not try this on my own.

RightUR 06-03-2021 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n2zon (Post 5775734)
In my opinion, if you have to ask the question, the answer is "No."

These things are really heavy. Our engine alone is over 3/4 ton, dry, without the transmission. The needed rigging and blocking skills are not ones you acquire overnight.

I've moved heavy stuff around (e.g., machine tools), and turned wrenches nearly my whole life, but I would not try this on my own.

I concur, even if you were lucky enough to find a DIY video on Youtube, this is not something you tackle without some experience. I used to change out BMW motors with a friend, but he was a master mechanic with a world of experience and took me under his wing one summer and I still consider my self less than a novice. But that's just me.

Traveler2162 06-03-2021 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 5773994)
How realistic is it for a handy person to change out the motor themselves? I know on some motor homes it just slides out the back...

I would not even think twice but I am 62, not 82 and I have been fixing things like this since I was 13 yrs old. When it comes down to it there is nothing here but nuts and bolts and a lot of weight.

It much depends if the 82 yr old had the skills to start with and what kind of shape they are in now. Regardless at that age it is going to be tough.

I would contribute to a go fund me.

bpu699 06-03-2021 07:24 PM

Iíve changed and rebuilt motors, not an issue. The weight though, would be challenging...

dfuelman 06-03-2021 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 5777501)
Iíve changed and rebuilt motors, not an issue. The weight though, would be challenging...

I agree 100%. The swap itself is just straight forward mechanic work, nothing special. The problem is handling the engine itself, it's HEAVY. Easiest way normally is with a fork truck from the rear, which would also add to the expense of the swap.

Would not want to chance hurting someone or damaging the new engine by dropping it during the install process.

If the handling issue could be over come, the R&R of the engine is just work.

shootist 06-03-2021 08:43 PM

You have to cut the rear lower panel off the coach and reglass it on. I wouldn't be afraid of the job, but I sure wouldn't want it. A lot of knowledge needed on cylinder heights etc as well

bpu699 06-04-2021 10:14 AM

Side question, on a DP can the Allison trans be removed/repaired/replaced without removing the motor?

What if a seal goes on the trans, crankshaft? Do they somehow do this with the motor in?

How does a truck shop do it?

kenbert1 06-04-2021 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacwjames (Post 5773983)
You consider just dropping a used engine in it and take a chance. If you do a search I'm sure you could find one fairly close. It would still cost money to get it changed out but might worth the risk. Look for something in a salvage vehicle,


I did a quick search of the Visione RV sight and they have a number of Cat engines, this will at least give you an idea of cost.

https://rvchassisparts.visonerv.com/...M121319/s1.pl?


Good luck

$2500 core charge on a Used Engine? Core Charges are for Rebuilt Engines.
Not a good deal in my opinion.

gnvrvin 06-04-2021 10:44 AM

MobyDick
Have you been able.to get your rig home yet?

Greg

bpu699 06-04-2021 11:10 AM

For $5000 or so you can get the motor, trans, and a free bus....

Plus, no freight charges. Just drive to bus to your mechanic for the swap. Resell bus with bad motor, for less...

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/ctd...331208469.html

dfuelman 06-04-2021 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 5778179)
Side question, on a DP can the Allison trans be removed/repaired/replaced without removing the motor?

What if a seal goes on the trans, crankshaft? Do they somehow do this with the motor in?

How does a truck shop do it?

As long as the coach is high enough for the trans to clear, you can remove it just like and normal car or truck, without removing the engine. A truck trans jack makes life pretty easy, just remove bolts, let the jack take the weight, slide it back, down and out it comes. MUCH easier than removing the engine.

Rear seal could likely re replace with trans in place, just remove driveshaft and yoke. Front seal would require removal, or at least sliding the trans back far enough to gain access to front pump.

Massparanoia 06-06-2021 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinman 55 (Post 5741394)
Im new to the diesel scene so please forgive my ignorance. I had not heard of diesel runaway until seeing this post, so I looked it up and still really don't understand how it happens. I guess it's the extra addition of fuel or oil that causes the continued running of the engine, but, isn't the regulation of fuel governed by the ECM? And, wouldn't the ECM prevent that extra addition of fuel to the engine?
Also, is there anything I should keep watch for to prevent this from happening to my coach.
Thanks everyone,

Diesel engine runs off its own engine oil. Blocking the intake like some have suggested will not stop it.

twinboat 06-07-2021 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massparanoia (Post 5781277)
Diesel engine runs off its own engine oil. Blocking the intake like some have suggested will not stop it.

Diesel engines may run on oil but they still need air to support combustion.

Your blocking the air intake. It will stop it.

Its a proven method of stopping them.

dfuelman 06-07-2021 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5781354)
Diesel engines may run on oil but they still need air to support combustion.

Your blocking the air intake. It will stop it.

Its a proven method of stopping them.

Twinboat, I witnessed my first diesel runaway many years ago, working at a VW dealership. A 4 cyl rabbit diesel ran away in the shop. It pulled a vacuum through the crankcase vent tube and started running on engine oil. RPM's went to the moon! Mechanic finally pulled the vent hose and it died. They put a check valve in the hose (factory recall) refilled with oil and off it went with no issues. I could not believe a diesel could turn that many RPM's and still live, it went so high, the sound of the engine changed LOL

I have also seen guys stack mud flaps in the intake to stop a run-away also.

Traveler2162 06-08-2021 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massparanoia (Post 5781277)
Diesel engine runs off its own engine oil. Blocking the intake like some have suggested will not stop it.


To be a little more clear.

A diesel engine runs on oil. They can burn almost anything from the thickest bunker crude to kerosene. All that is different is the fuel delivery mechanism.

The fuel is burned as a result of the high compression.

Engine speed is controlled by the amount of fuel available.

In normal operating condition this is control at maximum by the governor which will shut down the fuel if required.

A diesel is shut down by shutting off the fuel.

In a case were the rings are so bad that oil is getting past them, the oil in sufficent quantities will start to accelerate the engine. The governor has no control over this and even though it restricts the fuel it is sending, the engine is running on its own oil and can not be controlled.

This can also occur if oil is coming through the crackcase ventilation system and I have heard of a case were the governor broke.

Diesels require 3 things to run. Compression, fuel and air. In the situation of a runaway diesel you can not control compression or fuel but you can control air. Stop the air and you stop the engine.

This requires a complete block of the air intake and throwing a rag in there will do nothing.

momcat 06-18-2021 10:23 AM

Moby Dick
 
I would call Visione RV in London, Ky. I always deal with Kenny and he has been very reliable. I am in no way connected with them. I am just a customer that thinks they are reliable. They might know a local person to switch the engines. GOOD LUCK!!!! MOMCAT

Dan50 06-19-2021 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenbert1 (Post 5778197)
$2500 core charge on a Used Engine? Core Charges are for Rebuilt Engines.
Not a good deal in my opinion.

You would get the core charge back when you hand in the old engine or you wouldn't have to pay it at all if you take the old engine out first and hand it in when you buy the new one. They then can rebuild the hand in.


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