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-   -   Level before slide or slide before level? (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/level-before-slide-or-slide-before-level-536459.html)

krpowers54 05-11-2021 03:05 PM

Level before slide or slide before level?
 
Hello all. A lot of firsts for me this year - Retired, purchased 2020 Dutch Star 4081 and 1st post to irv2.

In previous mh, I always leveled prior to putting slides out. In the DS owner's manual, they say to do just the opposite. I'm trying to look at this logically. It seems to me that there would be a lot less stress on slide-out mechanisms if they are extended/retracted when level. I think of retracting old style awnings. If the rv isn't level, it seems to favor one side or another and doesn't mesh evenly with the support bars.

On the other hand, I realize that leveling after slide-outs are extended would make for a more level final product. However, I'm more inclined to lean on less stress than the bubble being a little off-center.

Any thoughts? Thanks much!
Ken

rickemo 05-11-2021 03:10 PM

We level first then put out the slides.

BrokeDown 05-11-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickemo (Post 5747599)
We level first then put out the slides.

What Rick said.

Mac99 05-11-2021 03:27 PM

Ditto on what Rick said. After slides are out
you can/may adjust again for any variations.
Might want to "zero" the auto leveler, often
they are off. I zeroed mine and then I always
leveled manually. Front to back, then side to
side. Worked great for the 11 years I had it.

southernlady 05-11-2021 03:30 PM

What does your manual say?

Our manual says level then slides out.

Tigerfan1 05-11-2021 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krpowers54 (Post 5747596)
Hello all. A lot of firsts for me this year - Retired, purchased 2020 Dutch Star 4081 and 1st post to irv2.



In previous mh, I always leveled prior to putting slides out. In the DS owner's manual, they say to do just the opposite. I'm trying to look at this logically. It seems to me that there would be a lot less stress on slide-out mechanisms if they are extended/retracted when level. I think of retracting old style awnings. If the rv isn't level, it seems to favor one side or another and doesn't mesh evenly with the support bars.



On the other hand, I realize that leveling after slide-outs are extended would make for a more level final product. However, I'm more inclined to lean on less stress than the bubble being a little off-center.



Any thoughts? Thanks much!

Ken



Newmar latest instructions are to extend slides at ride height after checking to make sure the gap around the slide out is even. Then level.

wildtoad 05-11-2021 03:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Newmar simply says to check the reveal(aka vertical gap) before extending the slides. They go on to say that most of the time the gap will be better when riding on the tires and not on the jacks. If you level first, get out and check the gap BEFORE you extend the slides.

What other manufacturers say to do is good information but not relevant.

GWBGE 05-11-2021 04:05 PM

On the newer Nemars, you extend the slide (especially the FWS) and then level. As has been said, check the vertical gaps to be sure they are even first.

I have been following this process and haven't had any problems.

A lot of people will vehemently disagree with this approach, but I'm going with the advice of the people who engineered and built my coach, over the internet experts.

Just my .02.

96kpmjmm 05-11-2021 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krpowers54 (Post 5747596)
Hello all. A lot of firsts for me this year - Retired, purchased 2020 Dutch Star 4081 and 1st post to irv2.

In previous mh, I always leveled prior to putting slides out. In the DS owner's manual, they say to do just the opposite. I'm trying to look at this logically. It seems to me that there would be a lot less stress on slide-out mechanisms if they are extended/retracted when level. I think of retracting old style awnings. If the rv isn't level, it seems to favor one side or another and doesn't mesh evenly with the support bars.

On the other hand, I realize that leveling after slide-outs are extended would make for a more level final product. However, I'm more inclined to lean on less stress than the bubble being a little off-center.

Any thoughts? Thanks much!
Ken

Congratulations on all.
This is what I have done with my 2016 Dutch Star and 2020 London Aire.
When I get to a campground I plug in or use generator, Engine is still running. Check my gap on all the slides. Make sure all is even with gap space. By this point shore power should be good, make sure I have 120 on each leg. I also make sure my batteries are bridged. With me outside watching and wife inside she sends the FWS out first than kitchen and bedroom. Turn off engine and hit the auto level, I watch as all jacks extend. When we are ready to leave hit auto store for jacks, start engine air up coach. With engine running bring slides in and unplug. I hope this helps, safe travels

DKRITTER 05-11-2021 04:30 PM

Not to many years ago Newmar recommended Leveling first then extending the slides. What they found out was at times this would cause excessive flex of the frames and the full wall slide might bind a bit.

They discovered it was better to extend the slides at ride height due to the fact the air bags caused less flex of the frame and this allowed the FWS to work better.

Newmar now recommends 1. checking clearance 2. extend slides 3. leveling
Putting the slides in are in reverse order 3,2,1

DKRITTER 05-11-2021 04:36 PM

Welcome to the forum.

The search button at the top will reveal about 75 gabillion similar threads.

mbrooking 05-11-2021 06:01 PM

:eek:

Mr_D 05-11-2021 06:06 PM

What does Newmar say? Different models have different instructions depending on their slide mechanisms. Our '02 DSDP was level first then deploy slides.

AveryF 05-11-2021 06:22 PM

Check your owner's manual. Our 2004 Itasca manual says to level first then deploy slides. Ours is a gas coach and it may very well differ. Check manufacturer's recommendation.

JMH 05-11-2021 06:34 PM

Mind the gap.

All you need to know.

zeno67 05-11-2021 09:05 PM

Well I guess plenty has been said in answer to this question. I think many have made a good point that the process can and will differ from coach to coach based on many factors. Since the people that engineered it and built it say slides out first then level, well I understand what you are saying about logically it seems it would be better to level first, however, I would not question the experts (Newmar) and I would follow their instructions. I'm sure they have good reason to recommend doing it this way.

Dav L 05-11-2021 09:29 PM

One of the most posted topics I can think of.
New to the forum...welcome.
But please use search before posting a topic.

rickemo 05-12-2021 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac99 (Post 5747620)
Ditto on what Rick said. After slides are out
you can/may adjust again for any variations.
Might want to "zero" the auto leveler, often
they are off. I zeroed mine and then I always
leveled manually. Front to back, then side to
side. Worked great for the 11 years I had it.

Like Mac99 I manual level. The first couple times I used automatic, but I found the automatic leveling raised the coach higher than necessary. A few times the front wheels were off the ground and the site was basically flat. Iím not comfortable with the wheels off the ground. I also use blocks under the leveling pads to only extend the levelers the minimum length necessary.

DKRITTER 05-12-2021 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickemo (Post 5747599)
We level first then put out the slides.

Sorry, but I have to point out the original poster has a Newmar 2020 Dutch Star 4081 which is a completely different MH from what you have.

I literally have no idea or understanding how FR is suggesting you level/deploy slides. I do however know and understand how Newmar recommends it be done on their MH's with the FWS.

Be aware different companies have different recommendations on how their particular RV's operate.

RichardE 05-12-2021 06:09 AM

A little more explanation may help you figure out what you want to do. My explanation only applies to coaches with air suspension. If you have leaf spring suspension, this does not apply to your rig.

The first idea that people have a hard time accepting, is that a motorhome home frame flexes and twists, A LOT.

When sitting in travel mode, allowing the height control valves to adjust the frame to the axle distances, the frame is in it’s least stressed condition. That is because the rear HCVs control the side to side attitude, and the front HCV allows the front wheels to “float” allowing them to follow the rear. Even if the coach is sitting on angled ground, or uneven ground, the coach is in it’s least twisted state when in travel mode.

When you level the coach, regardless of whether the coach uses air bag leveling or hydraulic jack leveling, the leveling computer forces the coach floor to level. In theory, pressures equalization and adjustment algorithms should account for uneven terrain and not induce flex in the coach. That is in theory. In practice, some situations can induce a lot of twist in the coach. Read enough threads and you will hear of folks popping out their windshield when leveling on uneven ground.

Having said that, would you rather extend your rooms when the coach is least twisted or more twisted? The reason Newmar says look at the gaps, is that if the gap is uneven then the frame is in a twisted state.

And lower the coach back into travel mode before retracting the rooms also.

I am not getting into an argument with the owner’s manual. Many of them say to do the opposite of what I recommend. My goal is to help someone understand mechanically what is going on when making the decision on what is the best approach.

Dav L 05-12-2021 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardE (Post 5748306)
A little more explanation may help you figure out what you want to do. My explanation only applies to coaches with air suspension. If you have leaf spring suspension, this does not apply to your rig.

The first idea that people have a hard time accepting, is that a motorhome home frame flexes and twists, A LOT.

When sitting in travel mode, allowing the height control valves to adjust the frame to the axle distances, the frame is in it’s least stressed condition. That is because the rear HCVs control the side to side attitude, and the front HCV allows the front wheels to “float” allowing them to follow the rear. Even if the coach is sitting on angled ground, or uneven ground, the coach is in it’s least twisted state when in travel mode.

When you level the coach, regardless of whether the coach uses air bag leveling or hydraulic jack leveling, the leveling computer forces the coach floor to level. In theory, pressures equalization and adjustment algorithms should account for uneven terrain and not induce flex in the coach. That is in theory. In practice, some situations can induce a lot of twist in the coach. Read enough threads and you will hear of folks popping out their windshield when leveling on uneven ground.

Having said that, would you rather extend your rooms when the coach is least twisted or more twisted? The reason Newmar says look at the gaps, is that if the gap is uneven then the frame is in a twisted state.

And lower the coach back into travel mode before retracting the rooms also.

I am not getting into an argument with the owner’s manual. Many of them say to do the opposite of what I recommend. My goal is to help someone understand mechanically what is going on when making the decision on what is the best approach.

Agreed Richard.
The root cause I have found is the leveling systems are generally inadaquete to address chassis twist when in auto level mode (what gets used by most, most of the time). And the end user doesn't have the "skill" to untwist the chassis because there typically doesn't exist a Front AND Rear level sensor so the two can be "twisted".

The slides don't "care" if on tires, air bags, leaf springs or airbags. They care that the opening is square and reasonably level.
Square can be identified by checking the gaps of the opening. But that requires someone to go outside and check. And if the slide doesn't fit flush with the opening when properly closed (by design), then it can be hard to determine if the gaps are indeed equal (chassis isn't twisted) if the gaps can't be seen when closed. My Newmar slides are flush and you can see the gap when closed. My Bounder was not flush, and you can't see the gaps.

Full Wall Slides are larger so any twist in the chassis magnifies the problem dimensionally and the FWS chassis are generally not as stiff so it's easier to twist. Later year chassis (like Newmar's "Star Chassis") was designed a bit stiffer.

Because of the above, the owner's manuals try to make it as simple as possible (because most owners are not very proficient at understanding the issue and the systems) for MOST situations.

Some folks say "because they build the rig on a level surface, that's why it needs to be level...well actually, it just needs to be level and square. And they happen to build them that way too.

So, bottom line: No matter your RV, ensure the chassis is reasonably level AND not twisted and the slides will work just fine - in or out.

CWSWine 05-12-2021 08:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is what Newmar sent me...

krpowers54 05-12-2021 09:01 AM

Thank you SO MUCH!!!
 
I'm also relatively new to forums. I did search this subject prior to adding a new thread but apparently didn't use the proper terminology.

Thanks to everyone for the input and explanations. Gaps 1st, Slide 2nd, Level 3rd. Now - I only have one more question. As recommended by Newmar and many of you, I should check the gaps. What are we supposed to do if the gaps are not even? Have any of you experienced this? If so - what did you do?

Thanks again, folks.

krpowers54 05-12-2021 09:11 AM

CWSWine -

I see that you addressed this while I was appending my message. As mentioned, I just purchased the Dutch Star less than a month ago. It came with very few manuals, so we're accumulating those now. The one I did receive said to check gaps, extend slides and level but didn't note what-to-dos if gaps are not parallel.

I've never been much of a believer in forums - UNTIL NOW!!!

Thank you again.

John_Penzi 05-12-2021 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWSWine (Post 5748538)
Here is what Newmar sent me...


So are we to interpret that Newmar suggests this updated/modified order of operations for all coaches, regardless of model year? Seems so.....

CWSWine 05-12-2021 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_Penzi (Post 5748591)
So are we to interpret that Newmar suggests this updated/modified order of operations for all coaches, regardless of model year? Seems so.....

I ask about 2017 Ventana so I don't know what years it applies to other than 2017. I called because reading the manual I thought slides out jacks down was error but was quickly informed that the manual was correct.

CWSWine 05-12-2021 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krpowers54 (Post 5748562)
I'm also relatively new to forums. I did search this subject prior to adding a new thread but apparently didn't use the proper terminology.

Thanks to everyone for the input and explanations. Gaps 1st, Slide 2nd, Level 3rd. Now - I only have one more question. As recommended by Newmar and many of you, I should check the gaps. What are we supposed to do if the gaps are not even? Have any of you experienced this? If so - what did you do?

Thanks again, folks.


The post I posted above address if the gaps are not even.

ArtJoyce 05-12-2021 10:31 AM

If the site looks fairly lever. We do it either way. But if the site is noticebly unlevel. We level first level.

I have seen instructions both ways. We have been in sites that side to side have had 8+ inchs and front to rear well over 12 inchs. Now there is no need for the slid motor and gears to be working up or down hills. Or for the slid to want want to travel to the front or rear when sliding out.

Old-Biscuit 05-12-2021 11:25 AM

DO it the way YOUR Owners Manual for YOUR Brand/Model of RV

Simple......

Don't agree/question procedure------call MFG and inquire

Once again----Simple!

DGBPokes 05-12-2021 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWSWine (Post 5748538)
Here is what Newmar sent me...



For years I have dumped, leveled, and ran out the slides.( on our second Newmar coach). At Nappanee, this past November, I watched then asked my service tech; ( guy been working for Newmar 23 years).
He said1. leave aired up at ride height 2. Check the reveal, if clear 3. Run the slides out 4. Dump and level.

His comment was; the closest tolerance on the slide is the reveal clearance. You have several inches for things to shift and move once you clear the reveal. If you are at a bad or un level site. Pay attention to the reveal. Run it out just an inch or two to clear the side wall, then dump and level, and then run it the rest of the way out. And reverse that coming in. Run it in, leaving it out that last couple of inches. Then retract the jacks, run up the air to ride height before retracting that last two inches.

I had not thought about the reveal clearance issue, makes a lot sense.

DGBPokes 05-12-2021 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWSWine (Post 5748538)
Here is what Newmar sent me...



For years I have dumped, leveled, and ran out the slides.( on our second Newmar coach). At Nappanee, this past November, I watched then asked my service tech; ( guy been working for Newmar 23 years).
He said1. leave aired up at ride height 2. Check the reveal, if clear 3. Run the slides out 4. Dump and level.

His comment was; the closest tolerance on the slide is the reveal clearance. You have several inches for things to shift and move once you clear the reveal. If you are at a bad or un level site. Pay attention to the reveal. Run it out just an inch or two to clear the side wall, then dump and level, and then run it the rest of the way out. And reverse that coming in. Run it in, leaving it out that last couple of inches. Then retract the jacks, run up the air to ride height before retracting that last two inches.

I had not thought about the reveal clearance issue, makes a lot sense.

John_Penzi 05-12-2021 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWSWine (Post 5748671)
I ask about 2017 Ventana so I don't know what years it applies to other than 2017. I called because reading the manual I thought slides out jacks down was error but was quickly informed that the manual was correct.

Its hard to tell from the wording of that memo. My manual says level, then put out the slides. But if they changed the way they think about it......

Dav L 05-13-2021 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krpowers54 (Post 5748562)
I'm also relatively new to forums. I did search this subject prior to adding a new thread but apparently didn't use the proper terminology.

Thanks to everyone for the input and explanations. Gaps 1st, Slide 2nd, Level 3rd. Now - I only have one more question. As recommended by Newmar and many of you, I should check the gaps. What are we supposed to do if the gaps are not even? Have any of you experienced this? If so - what did you do?

Thanks again, folks.

Well, that would indicate that the rig is on an unlevel area. So, you could repark, find a new campsite, OR use the levelers to untwist the chassis.
Note in my post the need is to ensure the back is level and the front is level. If so, then the coach isn't twisted.

I added electronic sensors front and back and an intuitive user interface at the drivers station to monitor progress of "leveling". I guess the next step would be to auto level / untwist...

Others use a level on the floor. You can also view the rig to see which leg needs to raise. Or examine the gaps to see which direction the opening is twisted and then use the levelers to compensate.

Just ensure the gaps are even before moving the slides.

The above is why the owner's manuals differ and don't really address your question. Because it isn't "easy" the way the rigs are designed.

The other point is "Ok, I have the slides out. Overnight the leg on one corner sank in the ground. And because the slide is out, I can't see the reveal to determine if the opening is square before moving the slides closed. Now what?" Judgement call...use the levelers to untwist, or gamble and bring the slides in, or move the slides in most of the way and drive the rig slowly to level and then fully close them (close the reveal).

dukester 05-16-2021 03:44 PM

Do what the manufacturer says
 
Iíve been down this road too, and agree with your logic, but what Iíve learned is each manufacturer wants you to follow their instructions for a reason. If Newmar says slides out then level, then do it that way.

mebop 05-16-2021 03:56 PM

Leveling
 
We have a 2017 Dutch Star. My thinking on leveling is as follows: If the site is fairly level I donít mind putting out the slides prior to activating the automatic levelers. Otherwise I do the levelers first. Either way you can tweak the level manually after done with leveling. A quick check is how the entrance door shuts. It is very fussy if the bus is not perfectly level.

Plumberpilot 05-16-2021 04:04 PM

Dumb question, what if the reveal isnít square or even?
Sell it on the spot?

Travel_Lodge 05-16-2021 07:20 PM

We asked this question when in Red Bay at Tiffin (2021 Allegro Red). The guy in the mechanics bay told us to level, then put the slides out, then hit autolevel again for it to make any needed adjustments. The reasoning for this is once the slides are out your weight distribution has changed (the rig is now wider) and possibly the level position. We've done it this way since he told us this (about a month ago) and we have only seen minor adjusting to the level, but not all the time; sometimes it just sits where it was without making additional adjustments. We never saw any major changes other than no more creaking from the leveling jacks.

mbrooking 05-16-2021 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travel_Lodge (Post 5754099)
We asked this question when in Red Bay at Tiffin (2021 Allegro Red). The guy in the mechanics bay told us to level, then put the slides out, then hit autolevel again for it to make any needed adjustments. The reasoning for this is once the slides are out your weight distribution has changed (the rig is now wider) and possibly the level position. We've done it this way since he told us this (about a month ago) and we have only seen minor adjusting to the level, but not all the time; sometimes it just sits where it was without making additional adjustments. We never saw any major changes other than no more creaking from the leveling jacks.

Different manufacturer = Different procedure
:rolleyes:

DKRITTER 05-16-2021 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travel_Lodge (Post 5754099)
We asked this question when in Red Bay at Tiffin (2021 Allegro Red). The guy in the mechanics bay told us to level, then put the slides out, then hit autolevel again for it to make any needed adjustments. The reasoning for this is once the slides are out your weight distribution has changed (the rig is now wider) and possibly the level position. We've done it this way since he told us this (about a month ago) and we have only seen minor adjusting to the level, but not all the time; sometimes it just sits where it was without making additional adjustments. We never saw any major changes other than no more creaking from the leveling jacks.


Sorry but the original poster has a Newmar DS it's different from the Allegro Red.

sartor 05-16-2021 07:30 PM

Just in case it helps, here are a few tips I've learned in the six months or so now that I've had my 2019 Dutch Star 4369 Spartan.

1) Pull into site and get situated, but leave engine running (so air stays fully inflated).

2) Get out and check gaps, and also check clearance for the slides (e.g., that you're not going to hit the electric pole).

3) Extend the slides: full wall slide first, then passenger-side slide, then bedroom. In my opinion, with the engine still running (and hence supplying roughly 14 volts to batteries), there is no need to plug in to shore power (or start generator) before deploying slides.

4) Once slides deployed, shut off engine, and auto-level.

5) In my experience, given the weight of the full wall slide, after an hour or so I often find that the driver side has "sunk" a bit, so I just hit auto-level again and it adjusts slightly.

6) When leaving campsite, reverse: start by auto-store/un-level, then start engine. And here's a key tip: you need to wait as much as a few minutes after starting the engine for the air bags to get completely re-inflated. In my case, the last thing to come up is the full wall slide side, and it doesn't happen until the *secondary* air bag gauge gets up to 130 - 140 PSI. Be patient! If you want you can go outside and watch the gap between the front tire and the wheel well, and you'll see that gap on the full wall slide side be the last thing to open up. You should also here the pressure release valve go "whoosh" at the rear of the RV when the air-up is fully finished.

7) Once fully aired up, pull in the slides. Full wall slide first, then kitchen, then bedroom (probably really doesn't matter the order, but that's the order I do it).

Hope this helps!

Tom

Rick3390 05-16-2021 07:42 PM

I had this debate with myself. I lost to the manual FR which says level first. I think RVís have different instructions dependent on the slide mechanism type. My advice is follow the manual!

BBelanger 05-16-2021 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krpowers54 (Post 5747596)
Hello all. A lot of firsts for me this year - Retired, purchased 2020 Dutch Star 4081 and 1st post to irv2.

In previous mh, I always leveled prior to putting slides out. In the DS owner's manual, they say to do just the opposite. I'm trying to look at this logically. It seems to me that there would be a lot less stress on slide-out mechanisms if they are extended/retracted when level. I think of retracting old style awnings. If the rv isn't level, it seems to favor one side or another and doesn't mesh evenly with the support bars.

On the other hand, I realize that leveling after slide-outs are extended would make for a more level final product. However, I'm more inclined to lean on less stress than the bubble being a little off-center.

Any thoughts? Thanks much!
Ken

We bought a 2017 Dutch Star 4018 with factory pickup. Our tech said when arriving slides out then level. When leaving, air up, jacks up, slides in. The reason is that the Newmar factory adjusts the slides with air bags full and jacks up.

Bill Bťlanger

Dutch Star Don 05-16-2021 10:11 PM

OMG.....This train is off the tracks!! Some are making this sooooo difficult. This isn't the Forest River or Tiffin forum. I've had a 2014 Dutch Star and now a 2019 Dutch Star. I've gone outside and checked the gaps twice in 5 years of ownership of the 2014 and have NEVER checked the gaps on the 2019 DS.

To start, the older FWS slides, the ones that are not chain/hydraulic, you can simply look at the slide lock at the front of the FWs slide and note the position of the lock, between the two screws that hold the rubber stop on. If they're centered or within an 1/8" either way, the slide is "gapped" appropriately. Twice I saw mine was quite a bit off and had to adjust the coach position.

On my 2019 DS, my slides have never moved within the opening, and mine gets beat to death on California roads. I know the slides on pre 2019 Dutch Stars won't open with the engine running, but if I owned a pre 2019, I would follow a recent post and change that. For those that think plugging in is helping, it doesn't, unless you physically wait and check to see that the ENGINE batteries are bridged and being charged. Many don't even know what that means or how to check. With the engine running, your getting 13.6 to 14.1 volts tp the slide motors.

Leveling first with a full wall slide makes NO SENSE, as the sheer weight of the slide will change the level. With the coach aired up, put out the slides and then use the Auto Level. For those that try to manually level, you're missing an important feature of the Auto Level. Once Auto Level gets done, it checks that all jacks are down and making contact. If yours doesn't get the coach level, adjust the level on the system.

Sagebrushcyn 05-17-2021 04:06 AM

Welcome to the forum! We asked the same question to our service tech at the Newmar Service Center when we were there a few months ago. He told us ďFirst check the reveals on the outside, if ok you can put the slides out then level the coachĒ

Travel_Lodge 05-17-2021 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKRITTER (Post 5754110)
Sorry but the original poster has a Newmar DS it's different from the Allegro Red.

Just trying to help :D

ggventana 05-17-2021 07:01 AM

We extend the slides and then level - Just my opinion, but it is probably more important when getting ready to leave - we lift the jacks and then bring in the slides.

CWSWine 05-17-2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plumberpilot (Post 5753787)
Dumb question, what if the reveal isn’t square or even?
Sell it on the spot?


Pull out you NEWMAR manual and read what to do if you can't get the reveal gaps correct and the manual has the corrective action. Now if you don't have a NEWMAR follow the instructions in your manufacture instructions. You could also read the post on this thread because it posted several times what to do if the reveal is uneven. Either Way!!!

mark2459 05-17-2021 09:42 AM

Newmar has a different process and a reason when the coach has a full length slide. As for the reason and if that applies to your rig, I don't know.

What I do know is the cockpit driver side window has a sticker with the name and contact info for the model rep at Newmar. I have talked & emailed mine several times and he is very helpful. Use the resource to your advantage.

Since this is a "one-off" process that seems unique to Newmar, they probably have the best answer.

Dan-DS 05-17-2021 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don (Post 5754291)
OMG.....This train is off the tracks!! Some are making this sooooo difficult. This isn't the Forest River or Tiffin forum. I've had a 2014 Dutch Star and now a 2019 Dutch Star. I've gone outside and checked the gaps twice in 5 years of ownership of the 2014 and have NEVER checked the gaps on the 2019 DS.

To start, the older FWS slides, the ones that are not chain/hydraulic, you can simply look at the slide lock at the front of the FWs slide and note the position of the lock, between the two screws that hold the rubber stop on. If they're centered or within an 1/8" either way, the slide is "gapped" appropriately. Twice I saw mine was quite a bit off and had to adjust the coach position.

On my 2019 DS, my slides have never moved within the opening, and mine gets beat to death on California roads. I know the slides on pre 2019 Dutch Stars won't open with the engine running, but if I owned a pre 2019, I would follow a recent post and change that. For those that think plugging in is helping, it doesn't, unless you physically wait and check to see that the ENGINE batteries are bridged and being charged. Many don't even know what that means or how to check. With the engine running, your getting 13.6 to 14.1 volts tp the slide motors.

Leveling first with a full wall slide makes NO SENSE, as the sheer weight of the slide will change the level. With the coach aired up, put out the slides and then use the Auto Level. For those that try to manually level, you're missing an important feature of the Auto Level. Once Auto Level gets done, it checks that all jacks are down and making contact. If yours doesn't get the coach level, adjust the level on the system.

:iagree:100% :thumb: Thank you Dutch Star Don for telling it the way it is.:dance:

Jim Albert Ellis 05-17-2021 12:30 PM

i GUESS THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN MORE THAN COVERED. MY 2C IS ON MY ALPINE 38' YOU CAN'T MOVE THE SLIDS UNTIL THE COACH IS LEVEL. I HAVE TO SAY I HAVEN'T CHECKED THE MANUAL BUT WILL KNOW

johnmontgome 05-17-2021 06:44 PM

Well they built it so I guess they have a good reason for saying extend then level but I can't quiet put my head around that one. Did you read it twice?

augerdogger 05-17-2021 08:15 PM

Do what the mother ship, Newmar, recommends. They built it and warranty it. They argue that each unit is built with the ride at standard height and slides should be operated as built. My air suspension has been "adjusted" from the as-built configuration and I still follow the Newmar protocol.

Dav L 05-18-2021 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmontgome (Post 5755461)
Well they built it so I guess they have a good reason for saying extend then level but I can't quiet put my head around that one. Did you read it twice?

For most reasonably level parking spots, the air bags are "softer" / compliant and allow the chassis to remain untwisted (it's natural state as that's how it was welded at the plant) even if there is a little difference in height from tire to tire. When the chassis is straight, then the slide opening is square. When the opening is square, the reveals are parallel. When parallel, the slide moves in / out without interference and all is happy.

If the chassis is also level, then the motors on one side aren't trying to push the slide "uphill". So the motors are happy.

The challenge is when parked on a less level spot that at some point, the air bags won't take up the difference in tire height and the chassis will be twisted. Not happy. One then would need to either repark, or use the leveling jacks to attempt to get things level AND untwisted. So, check the reveals to ensure all is happy.

Dav L 05-18-2021 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augerdogger (Post 5755589)
Do what the mother ship, Newmar, recommends. They built it and warranty it. They argue that each unit is built with the ride at standard height and slides should be operated as built. My air suspension has been "adjusted" from the as-built configuration and I still follow the Newmar protocol.

"Standard height" That has nothing to do with it - really.

The chassis just needs to be reasonably level AND untwisted (just like at the plant). The slides don't care about ride height.

Know that just because someone works at a place, doesn't mean they are expert with all aspects of the product.

zman62 05-18-2021 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don (Post 5754291)
OMG.....This train is off the tracks!! Some are making this sooooo difficult. This isn't the Forest River or Tiffin forum. I've had a 2014 Dutch Star and now a 2019 Dutch Star. I've gone outside and checked the gaps twice in 5 years of ownership of the 2014 and have NEVER checked the gaps on the 2019 DS.

To start, the older FWS slides, the ones that are not chain/hydraulic, you can simply look at the slide lock at the front of the FWs slide and note the position of the lock, between the two screws that hold the rubber stop on. If they're centered or within an 1/8" either way, the slide is "gapped" appropriately. Twice I saw mine was quite a bit off and had to adjust the coach position.

On my 2019 DS, my slides have never moved within the opening, and mine gets beat to death on California roads. I know the slides on pre 2019 Dutch Stars won't open with the engine running, but if I owned a pre 2019, I would follow a recent post and change that. For those that think plugging in is helping, it doesn't, unless you physically wait and check to see that the ENGINE batteries are bridged and being charged. Many don't even know what that means or how to check. With the engine running, your getting 13.6 to 14.1 volts tp the slide motors.

Leveling first with a full wall slide makes NO SENSE, as the sheer weight of the slide will change the level. With the coach aired up, put out the slides and then use the Auto Level. For those that try to manually level, you're missing an important feature of the Auto Level. Once Auto Level gets done, it checks that all jacks are down and making contact. If yours doesn't get the coach level, adjust the level on the system.



Well said!!

fottip 05-18-2021 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardE (Post 5748306)
Having said that, would you rather extend your rooms when the coach is least twisted or more twisted?

I would rather extend/retract my slides when the RV "house" (structure above the frame) is **level**. Why? Simply because the slides move in and out of the "house", not the frame.

Busskipper 05-18-2021 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krpowers54 (Post 5747596)
Hello all. A lot of firsts for me this year - Retired, purchased 2020 Dutch Star 4081 and 1st post to irv2.

In previous mh, I always leveled prior to putting slides out. In the DS owner's manual, they say to do just the opposite. I'm trying to look at this logically. It seems to me that there would be a lot less stress on slide-out mechanisms if they are extended/retracted when level. I think of retracting old style awnings. If the rv isn't level, it seems to favor one side or another and doesn't mesh evenly with the support bars.

On the other hand, I realize that leveling after slide-outs are extended would make for a more level final product. However, I'm more inclined to lean on less stress than the bubble being a little off-center.

Any thoughts? Thanks much!
Ken

JMHO - the guy who made the Coach might just Know the Coach - So I'd tend to follow his advise, but that's just Me.

This is a long time debate - the reality is if the frame does not get torqued then either will work - I will guess if you have followed Newmar you will learn that they have more to the slide out going out than just the pre level or after level - something about checking clearance around the slide out space, if I recall.

Anyhow, I'd follow the advice in the Manual, just seems smart.

Best of Luck and Welcome to the Forum,

Dav L 05-18-2021 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fottip (Post 5755873)
I would rather extend/retract my slides when the RV "house" (structure above the frame) is **level**. Why? Simply because the slides move in and out of the "house", not the frame.

And when is one level and the other not?
They are welded in many points together. They are a unit.
When the frame is level, so is the "house".

dsisemore1 05-18-2021 07:28 AM

Slides
 
Funny story, sometimes common sense should be used. We have slides on one side of the coach. Following the owners manual we would level and then put the slides out. It seemed as though with all the weight on one side of the coach it would cause it to be off a little. While at the service center I asked the tech about it. He asked if I hit the auto level after the slides are out to adjust a little. As soon as he said it I kinda had a DUH moment - now we level - put slides out and relevel.

wolfe10 05-18-2021 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernlady (Post 5747622)
What does your manual say?


ONLY CORRECT ANSWER!


Do what YOUR coach maker calls for, not what someone else's coach maker calls for!!!

1543Oakhurst 05-18-2021 03:57 PM

2016 Newmar D.S.4018, Level first then bring out the two passenger slides first and then the drivers side wall slide.

roblaura 05-19-2021 01:20 PM

You may have to call the manufacturer and ask what their logic is for slides first. I am with you - level first. The reason is that slides can easily bind or otherwise get out of sync if the coach frame is not reasonably level and straight. We try to find reasonably flat camp sites, but that is not always possible. I don't want our slides out when the coach moves and twists to level itself. Knock on wood and being careful, in about 80k miles of RVing, we have never had a slide problem. Of course, can't say that about other coach systems - grin.

Dan-DS 05-20-2021 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roblaura (Post 5757636)
You may have to call the manufacturer and ask what their logic is for slides first. I am with you - level first. The reason is that slides can easily bind or otherwise get out of sync if the coach frame is not reasonably level and straight. We try to find reasonably flat camp sites, but that is not always possible. I don't want our slides out when the coach moves and twists to level itself. Knock on wood and being careful, in about 80k miles of RVing, we have never had a slide problem. Of course, can't say that about other coach systems - grin.

As it was explained to me and made a lot of sense, it has less to do with being level than the frame being square. The air suspension will maintain the frame much more square than the levelers do. They went to this procedure once they went to whole wall slide.


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