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GuyV 07-15-2021 11:22 AM

Electrical question
 
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.

inthepines 07-15-2021 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.

you would need an adapter to go from 50>30 amp and there should not be any problems.
the adapter will drop the one leg and provide the juice.

carybosse 07-15-2021 11:30 AM

Main issues may be the AC unit(s).

Duster73 07-15-2021 11:36 AM

I dont see a reason this would hurt it. I keep an adapter in my motorhome for this exact purpose. I dont ever do extended stays, but it should be fine.

As long as you dont go over 30amps at one time throughout the rid and overload your camper your good. The shore power breaker will NOT go off unless 50+A is applied, which in this case is bad(normally 30). Thats the only concern I can think of. I use my camper the same exact way I normally would and its perfect.

puttin 07-15-2021 11:43 AM

The black wire of the 30a side connects to both red & black of the 50 side....so both legs have power. But, as mentioned- you'll be limited in what you'll be able to use.

Alpine36 07-15-2021 12:16 PM

Our 50a coach rests at home on 30a all the time. Never an issue using a 50a to 30a dogbone adaptor. Generally we just run the absorption fridge, battery charge converter, perhaps one 800w heater in the winter and a couple LED lights. I wouldn't attempt to run both AC units simultaneously though. A good EMS with power monitor will indicate your power consumption limitations.

Sbrownstein 07-15-2021 12:38 PM

I run my Georgetown 335DS all the time on 30 amps. I do have a 50 amp system but in reality that is for units that have 2 ACs. Mine has only one. Always use electric HW, electric fireplace, residential reefer and AC on 30 amps. Never even popped the 30 amp pedestal once. You should be fine.

Psneeld 07-15-2021 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrownstein (Post 5832901)
I run my Georgetown 335DS all the time on 30 amps. I do have a 50 amp system but in reality that is for units that have 2 ACs. Mine has only one. Always use electric HW, electric fireplace, residential reefer and AC on 30 amps. Never even popped the 30 amp pedestal once. You should be fine.


Depending on the wattage of those appliances you could be very close to popping a CB. Possibly overloading the outlet when you first plug in. The RV should be fine with a 50A system, but the shore power side at 30 A continuous (say you had a 1500W water heater, a 1500W electric fireplace and a AC that drew 10A or 1200 watts).... you would be way over a 30A outlet rating.

Sbrownstein 07-15-2021 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psneeld (Post 5832969)
Depending on the wattage of those appliances you could be very close to popping a CB. Possibly overloading the outlet when you first plug in. The RV should be fine with a 50A system, but the shore power side at 30 A continuous (say you had a 1500W water heater, a 1500W electric fireplace and a AC that drew 10A or 1200 watts).... you would be way over a 30A outlet rating.

Perhaps...but only Richard Nixon would turn up the AC and start a fire in the fireplace in the White House.

puttin 07-15-2021 02:29 PM

Wow, what brought that on?

Tha_Rooster 07-15-2021 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??



Thanks for your help with this.



The truth is yes but only if you watch you wattage. If you can get by with only running 1 air you should have no problems. Running 2 airs you would probably have around 6-8 amps left.

Sbrownstein 07-15-2021 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puttin (Post 5833009)
Wow, what brought that on?

Running the fireplace and AC on 30 amps!!!!

twinboat 07-15-2021 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthepines (Post 5832818)
you would need an adapter to go from 50>30 amp and there should not be any problems.
the adapter will drop the one leg and provide the juice.

The adaptor powers up both legs, so your RV is sharing 30 amps instead of the 100 amps a 50 amp 120/240 service can supply.

twinboat 07-15-2021 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duster73 (Post 5832834)
I dont see a reason this would hurt it. I keep an adapter in my motorhome for this exact purpose. I dont ever do extended stays, but it should be fine.

As long as you dont go over 30amps at one time throughout the rid and overload your camper your good. The shore power breaker will NOT go off unless 50+A is applied, which in this case is bad(normally 30). Thats the only concern I can think of. I use my camper the same exact way I normally would and its perfect.

The shore breaker is 30 amps. It will trip first.

twinboat 07-15-2021 03:07 PM

Study hall time .

https://www.rvtechmag.com/electrical/chapter3.php

hohenwald48 07-15-2021 06:13 PM

I've never seen or heard of a 50 amp Navion. Was that some kind of special order?

twinboat 07-15-2021 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hohenwald48 (Post 5833310)
I've never seen or heard of a 50 amp Navion. Was that some kind of special order?

I didn't know they made class As.

Tha_Rooster 07-15-2021 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5833353)
I didn't know they made class As.



Maybe op hasnít changed their profile?

Duster73 07-16-2021 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5833041)
The shore breaker is 30 amps. It will trip first.

Got mixed up lol thanks for pointing that out.



But the OP should be good to go with his set up.

Ray,IN 07-16-2021 07:44 PM

A 30A circuit breaker has a maximum capacity of 3,600 watts, a 50A breaker has a maximum capacity of 12,000 watts.
To get an idea of what you may safely operate, got to page 8 of: https://cdn.ltvdns.com/leisurevans.c...r-Handbook.pdf

Sbrownstein 07-16-2021 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 5834671)
A 30A circuit breaker has a maximum capacity of 3,600 watts, a 50A breaker has a maximum capacity of 12,000 watts.
...

Do want to nitpick but not exactly! A 30A RV outlet has a maximum capacity of 3,600 watts, a 50A RV outlet has a maximum capacity of 12,000 watts. A 50 amp breaker has a capacity of 6000 watts.

Ray,IN 07-16-2021 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrownstein (Post 5834695)
Do want to nitpick but not exactly! A 30A RV outlet has a maximum capacity of 3,600 watts, a 50A RV outlet has a maximum capacity of 12,000 watts. A 50 amp breaker has a capacity of 6000 watts.

In the coach? Mine is a double breaker, levers fastened together. Cannot move just one.

twinboat 07-16-2021 10:01 PM

The 50 amp 120/240 volt breaker is called a double breaker. That's what's used.

Sundancer268 07-22-2021 03:47 PM

I run my 50 Amp Gulf Stream on 30 Amps a lot, Sometimes I can run both A/C units and sometimes I can't. I reset my Inverter Battery Charger as low as it will go if I want Both A/C units. It is a 50/50 gamble on the A/Cs.

70ChevelleSS 07-22-2021 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrownstein (Post 5834695)
Do want to nitpick but not exactly! A 30A RV outlet has a maximum capacity of 3,600 watts, a 50A RV outlet has a maximum capacity of 12,000 watts. A 50 amp breaker has a capacity of 6000 watts.

What Ray was saying but maybe wasn't real clear. A 50 amp 120v breaker has a capacity of 6,000 watts. A double pole, 240v, breaker has a capacity of 12,000 watts. 6,000 on each 50 amp hot leg.

Having said that we have run our 35' MH on 30 amps lots of time. Our power panel will shut power to different things based on how much is being used. We have basement air with 2 compressors. It will shut off the 2nd compressor if necessary, or the electric water heater, or the fridge. Not sure if your rig will manage the power that way but I really don't thing you'll have an issue. Just use a little common sense and don't try to run everything at the same time.

Cobra1025 07-22-2021 04:10 PM

30 amp 50 amp
 
You can run 30 amp on 50 amp RVís but not for long time. Also limit use of A/C units if you have 2. My problem at home running 30 amp on 50 amp wires causes burnt out plug ends. Your pushing out only 30amp and your rig wants 50amps, I burnt out several electrical male/female ends. This could also cause an electrical fire, so be very careful only do this short time and if your wires burn up start to reconsider going to 50 amp.

Pianotuna 07-22-2021 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.


Yes, but you have to prevent going over 3600 watts of demand. It is possible to mintage the limitation by using a hybrid inverter charger.


In the old days before the "load support" inverter chargers, I would sometimes plug in only the converter, and then run the rest of the RV from the inverter.

THenne1713 07-22-2021 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.

YES, but limit would be 3600 watts vs 12000 watts= (1-air cond)

Wnevels 07-22-2021 05:03 PM

We are on the road this month so Iíve only had 30 amps most of the time. I just set my inverter to help out if it sees over 25 amps so far I have t overloaded any of the campground electrical boxes and we have been running both acís at 73 degrees.

wolfe10 07-22-2021 05:10 PM

I will repeat a couple of "clarifications":


50 amp RV power is TWO 50 amp hots @120 VAC (L1 and L2), so, 2 times 6000 watts= 12,000 watts. Ya, "RV math". Actually no different than a 50 amp stove connection in a sticks and bricks home.


There is NO time limit on HOW LONG you can run a 50 amp coach on 30 amp connection. Only issue is how much you can run at the same time.


Said another way, you can run basics plus one roof A/C forever on a 30 amp connection.


Other caveat is to watch VOLTAGE as 30 amp connections tend to be in older CG's that may have used smaller gauge wire and where connections may be more worn.

amosnandy 07-22-2021 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.

I spend 6 months each winter in Mexico with only 30 amp power. I did have some issues with my HR gasser. No EMS to shut stuff down. Had a 20 amp breaker for one of my AC units fail. But generally, yes, just remember you cannot pull more than 30 amps. Many a trip to the trailer park breaker box to reset the 30 amp breaker.

Biggest issue we have in Mexico is voltage. It fluctuates from 106 to 139. To correct this we use a self regulating 4000 watt transformer. It goes in the 30 amp line. It holds a pretty steady 120 volts. It goes into the 30 amp line from the 30 amp plug. About 2' square and heavy as hell. They use them all over Mexico and I have never been able to find one in the US. I can put a VOM in the 30 amp plug and see 139 volts. Plug the transformer in and the output is 120. Same when it's down to 106. 120 out from the transformer. What changes when the voltage changes is the amount of watts you can draw. 30 amp at 106 is a lot different than 30 amps at 139.

I would highly recommend you get a surge protector that reads voltage, load and the correct wiring.

Biggest thing if you are going to be hooked to a 30 amp circuit is make sure all your plugs are clean and shiny. Make sure the 30 amp dogbone fits tightly into the outlet. And at the first sign of any discoloration, burn marks, melting of the plugs is toss the dogbone and by a new one.

We have 36 of us in the trailer park, and most are 50 amp units running on 30 amps.

mitchoe 07-22-2021 06:59 PM

I do it all the time. Only one time had a problem, the 30 to 50 adapter overheated, but it was faulty wiring in the pedestal and i caught it when I noticed the discoloration on the adapter. When Iím connected to 30A I use a 30A surge protector also. Only problem I have is not being able to use as much ďstuffĒ, like the second AC or the microwave and AC at the same time.

gwb2020 07-22-2021 07:05 PM

I do run my Rig on 20amps at times, when there is not a higher connection available (like visiting friends) and also 30amps when that is the only connection available at the RV Park.. These same issues will occur with either service:
1. Can only run 1 air conditioner.
2. Cannot run the inverter (for charging the house batteries) (max 12amps), refrigerator (max 3 amps), microwave (max 8amps) and A/C (max 15amps) at the same time.
3. Watch your power distribution panel and check how much each component uses. Add it up and keep the total usage under 30 amps.
4. Remember, the inverter will kick on randomly when the House batteries discharge to a set level. To stop this from accidentally overloading your system if you are already using the A/C and Microwave or even the toaster, turn off the inverter battery charge until you are finished using the other appliances.
5. Be sure to set your incoming power to 30 amps and your power distribution setting to 30amps. Neglecting the first can cause the RV to attempt to draw more than the 30 amps available and pop the breaker at the source. Neglecting the second can cause random cut offs (like A/C) and be a pain to start up correctly.
The intelligent distribution panel is only as smart as the data it has to operate with.

Of course, your power distribution panel can also choose where to distribute the power, but it chooses based on its priorities, which may not be the same as yours. Also, if it cuts off the A/C compressor it may not let it turn back on until an extended time period after the power requirements drop below 30 amps.

Solo_RV_Guy 07-22-2021 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfe10 (Post 5842413)
I will repeat a couple of "clarifications":


50 amp RV power is TWO 50 amp hots @120 VAC (L1 and L2), so, 2 times 6000 watts= 12,000 watts. Ya, "RV math". Actually no different than a 50 amp stove connection in a sticks and bricks home.


If we're getting into semantics, it's a split phase 120/240v circuit. It's the center tapped transformer secondary that creates the split phase.


NO part of this circuit can exceed 50 amps (OCPD/breaker). Because each side of the center tap is out of polarity with the other, the neutral carries only current that represents any imbalance of loading in each Line; i.e. if Line 1 has a 40 amp load and Line 2 has a 15 amp load, the current on the neutral will be 25 amps.



But what this is NOT, by definition, is 2 50 amp circuits. That it can be used in this manner does not change what it is.


Now if you'll pardon me, Don Quixote and I have more windmills to joust.:cool:

sibe 07-22-2021 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy (Post 5842606)
If we're getting into semantics, it's a split phase 120/240v circuit. It's the center tapped transformer secondary that creates the split phase.


NO part of this circuit can exceed 50 amps (OCPD/breaker). Because each side of the center tap is out of polarity with the other, the neutral carries only current that represents any imbalance of loading in each Line; i.e. if Line 1 has a 40 amp load and Line 2 has a 15 amp load, the current on the neutral will be 25 amps.



But what this is NOT, by definition, is 2 50 amp circuits. That it can be used in this manner does not change what it is.


Now if you'll pardon me, Don Quixote and I have more windmills to joust.:cool:

No but in a perfect world that RV can use 100Amps at 120 or 12000 watts of power.. and that Nuetral will be maxed at 50amps.. a tad warm maybe..

I have read pedestals on a 50A and had 240 between the legs.. actually it was 2 weeks ago at a event and we had a funky issue of poping a breaker,, It was in a MH, the owner had a 7500QD taken out and a10K QD put in.. He also added a secondary 50amp plug that would run back to his attached trailer to run an AC, his hot dog machine or whatever else he does,,

they bypassed the original load shed or did not interlock it proper.. basically one leg was way over drawing..
I flipped the legs as a temp fix and told him either AC or Hot dogs not both.. He was like I wanted a bigger genny they talked me out of it...
I said the genny is not even on... it is the way they wired this all up when you added that extra 50amp..
I said run the Genny for RV and we plug the trailer into the pedestil. or use another pedestil that you can reach ..

I have not talked to him.. I am sure I will get the story in August at next event..

Blah blah.. sorry for story..

arcaguy 07-22-2021 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrownstein (Post 5833001)
Perhaps...but only Richard Nixon would turn up the AC and start a fire in the fireplace in the White House.

You haven't met many politicians have you?

Fiesta48 07-22-2021 08:32 PM

My 41' DP has 3 A/C. They only pull 8 amps each. I've stayed many weeks on only 30A service but don't run all 3.
My internal service panel also won't let me pull but 30A.

NeilV 07-22-2021 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.


A small class A even with 2 air conditioners will be just fine on 30 amps especially if it has a Power Management System. Mine is 35 feet long and I am only limited to 1 air conditioner when on a 20 amp service however when on a 30 amp service I leave everything on, even the electric hot water heater, and let the power management system deal with it. I have never felt the need to upgrade my coach from 30 to 50 amps since its never been a real problem.

Most campgrounds I frequent only have 30 amp sites and most coaches back in 2001 were by default 30 amp with 50 being optional.

Low voltage from poor utility companies distribution grids or deficient campground wiring is another matter though. I highly recommend a voltage correction device such as a Hughes AutoForner to protect from and correct that situation which will allow your Air Conditioners and all other electrical components in your coach to last much longer.

Donkey7679 07-23-2021 06:48 AM

I have had to run my 50amp service on 30amp on several occasions. The longest I have went was a two week stint at a state park when they had no available 50amp spots (busy time). I just had to monitor how many amps I was drawing at one time full well knowing I had to maintain 28 amps or below as a safety margin. In my RV I was able to run one AC, TV and my refrigerator at the same time with no issue. I could use my microwave no issue; however, I had to shutdown the AC to use the convection oven side. For the AC use I ran the front unit during the day and switched to the back unit at night when we slept. This kept me below 28 amps and I never really struggled with anything.

TXduo 07-23-2021 07:49 AM

One important point to make for a newbie is DO NOT try to plug into an older three wire home 30A dryer outlet (240V). Just saying because that has been attempted before with not so good results. The 30A campground 120V circuit is not the same (and plugs should not fit) as a 30A dryer outlet (240V). Just saying....

aschuller1 07-23-2021 10:27 AM

Yes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.

Do it all of the time when at parks don't offer 50 AMPS. Dog leg adapter will work just fine. However, you may not be able to run your AC's. Do a test and see how many AMPS your AC's draw at start up.

Steve 716 07-23-2021 01:52 PM

Understand the limits of 30 amp service
 
My last coach was a gasser setup for 30 amp service. When I tried to run both ACs and anything else my internal breaker would flip. Sometimes one AC and a few other devices were enough to trip my breaker. There were times when I, like you, needed to convert a pedestal 50 amp plug to my 30 amp line. As long as you understand these limitations using a 30 amp adaptor to the input side of your 50 amp power cable should not be a problem. Do you have a surge suppressor? If not I suggest that you purchase one. My preference is an internal suppressor but a quality external suppressor will provide the same protection. If you purchase a 30 amp to 50 amp adaptor make sure the product you buy is a quality device.

tropical36 07-24-2021 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyV (Post 5832813)
As a "new" class A coach owner, is it possible to run a small class A with the 50 amp power cord connected to a 30 amp service for any length of time? If not what would be the main problems??

Thanks for your help with this.

Ours runs 24/7 along with two A/C's in our driveway.
The elect. hot water tank isn't on however. Nor are we running the microwave, the toaster....etc...et...
If we should though, the EMS would just shed one or both ac's until power available was restored and then come back on automatically.

johnmontgome 07-24-2021 01:38 PM

You can do it for ever. The restriction isn't time it's electrical load. You just can not run everything in the unit at one time. There are charts showing how much power certain equipment draws and you can not exceed 30 amps and even at 30 amps you are at risk of damaging YOUR equipment because when you go over the limit of amperage the voltage will start to drop and YOUR equipment will start to overheat and be damaged. Also when you overload the receptacle you are plugged into will burn up.
You might be able to run you refrigerator and one ac with some lights. More than that is starting to get risky. Never ever try 2 ac's.

twinboat 07-24-2021 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschuller1 (Post 5843235)
Do it all of the time when at parks don't offer 50 AMPS. Dog leg adapter will work just fine. However, you may not be able to run your AC's. Do a test and see how many AMPS your AC's draw at start up.

Since ACs have 20 breakers, running one AC on 30 amps is easly doable.

tropical36 07-24-2021 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropical36 (Post 5844430)
Ours runs 24/7 along with two A/C's in our driveway.
The elect. hot water tank isn't on however. Nor are we running the microwave, the toaster....etc...et...
If we should though, the EMS would just shed one or both ac's until power available was restored and then come back on automatically.

I forgot to mention that we have two fridges constantly running as well. Then of course the charger for keeping the batteries up.
The service I put in is fed with #8 awg wire with a 40amp breaker behind it. It seldom goes above 26amps. The 40amp breaker in all likelihood does nothing for me, as I'm most sure the EMS will start to shut things down above 30amps anyway.

Alan_Hepburn 07-24-2021 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra1025 (Post 5842295)
...Your pushing out only 30amp and your rig wants 50amps...

Electricity doesn't work that way: amps are pulled, not pushed. A circuit will only draw as many amps as it needs, and nothing more. Your typical alarm clock draws maybe an amp at most, but it's most likely plugged in to a 15A circuit in your home. And that 15A circuit is fed from a 100A or 200A service - it'll run like that for decades full time...

diesel-dan 07-27-2021 02:19 PM

We also run ours often on 30A, and always do at home as that's the service at our RV building. Both ACs run fine on 30A and many of the parks we go to only have 30A service.

That said, I learned a valuable lesson, one that many posters on this thread and another power related one have spoken to.

One camp in particular is a known for us for running low voltage, so we have a good surge/power monitor/protector unit in-line. Last trip there it was hot and the voltage supplied just wouldn't run both ACs, so we went with the genny. When I unplugged from the pedestal the 30A extension I had was HOT.

When we got home I started going through the cables from the 50A on the rig side to the extension we hooked up to everything with. We've been using a Dogbone adapter that came with our rig; never thought to inspect it or any of the other connections. Well using an infrared temperature gun, I found that with both ACs on the Dogbone was significantly hotter than everything else! So lesson #1) check your connections (bright and shiny brass) AND proactively replace the Dogbone - I think they just go bad, slowly.

I had a difficult time pulling the old Dogbone off the rig's 50A plug, and when I got it off found boy had we been lucky. The rig-side 50A plug was all discolored and some of the blades were no longer straight (it will be replaced), but the Dogbone female 50A was unbelievable - melted and distorted, the neutral metal was almost completely gone :eek:. What a fire hazard! Now I don't know how long this has been going on, since I'd never pulled the Dogbone off. Instead of a Dogbone I've gone to a solid 50A Female in to 30A male out adapter - runs nice and cool.

Lesson #2) I also was guilty of running too long of extension cords and found the 50' 30A cord we always used had signs of getting hot - another connector replacement, but more important: bought a couple of far shorter extension cords.

And Lesson #3) I cleaned up every connection and will from now on routinely check them.

Lastly I bought a 50A surge/power protector and will put the 30A one into backup duty...

Bottom line: we were extremely lucky, and this was a: :facepalm: for me.

Pay attention to these folks - they know what they are talking about...:thumb: :bow:


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