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smacdiesel 07-27-2021 01:14 PM

Mystery Air Leak
 
Greetings!
Just wondering where to look for a mystery air leak in a 2002 Magna. The front of the rig drops overnight! Took it to a reputable shop and they can't find the leak. We replaced the front air level valves and the problem still persists. They said the airbags (original) look good. They have soap sprayed the entire system for two days now and just can't find the leak. Any suggestions?

twinboat 07-27-2021 01:27 PM

The ride height valve seals the air into the lines going to the bags and the bags themself.

If they are deflating, it will be there.

smacdiesel 07-27-2021 01:39 PM

That's what I was thinking. I mentioned that to the tech and he said there are no leaks detected at the bags. Should I replace those? I hate to just throw money at it.

twinboat 07-27-2021 03:52 PM

Its probably a very small leak and nothing to worry about.

Use it as it is. Your levelers will hold it up while camping.

okcnewbie 07-27-2021 03:59 PM

The hoses going to my air gauge in the dash were loose. They are sort of like gator/shark bite fittings. They just have to be pushed in correctly. I pushed them in and they don't leak anymore.

To determine if the leak is too bad to be safe just perform your safety precheck.

wolfe10 07-27-2021 04:10 PM

With spray kiddie bubbles, you should be able to find a leak that goes from 120 to under 30 PSI overnight.


Do you have air leveling or jacks? If air leveling, that is another thing to check.

DJ55 07-27-2021 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5848910)
Use it as it is. Your levelers will hold it up while camping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfe10 (Post 5848940)
Do you have air leveling or jacks? If air leveling, that is another thing to check.

There are no separate levelers on the DynoMax chassis, only air leveling.

smacdiesel, when I recently had my air bags replaced I was told there were leaking air fittings that couldn't be soap tested while the bags were in the way. Might be the same situation for you.

Boomper 07-27-2021 05:34 PM

The leveling valves are not in play when the coach is parked and the HWH system is NOT in the travel mode.

My bet would be a solenoid valve. They have O rings that can fail and leak.

NOTE: This applies to the HWH 500 system. I can't say for any other model.

twinboat 07-27-2021 05:55 PM

If you have air leveling, then the auxiliary compressor should keep the system pressure up.

DJ55 07-27-2021 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomper (Post 5849081)
The leveling valves are not in play when the coach is parked and the HWH system is NOT in the travel mode.

My bet would be a solenoid valve. They have O rings that can fail and leak.

NOTE: This applies to the HWH 500 system. I can't say for any other model.

Agreed and FWIW, my bet also. My reservation with that diagnosis, though, would be if they're leaking enough to drop the coach's front end overnight then I'd think soapy water would show the leaking or you'd actually hear the leaking. Aren't mystery air leaks fun? :banghead:

MECMagna 07-27-2021 09:21 PM

I experienced the same problem with the rear air bags on our Magna. It was checked by several mechanics who said all was fine. It took me quite some time crawling around under the coach spraying soapy water and I finally found the leak was from a solenoid valve on the rear air manifold. It was intermittent so it did not always bubble up. Replaced the valve and all is good now. I would suggest checking your front air manifold. The valves can be ordered from HWH. Good luck!

smacdiesel 07-27-2021 10:27 PM

Thanks for the replies. The shop is going keep looking. Very frustrating.

gpounder 07-29-2021 06:41 AM

If you have a HWH air leveling system it is possible one of the valves is leaking. I could never see the air bubbles but I heard spitting when it was wet.

Boomper 07-29-2021 10:26 PM

Before they fire the parts cannon again, I had a similar occurrence a few years ago. After soaping up every air related part under the coach, I bought a bottle of kids bubble soap.

After soaping the lower air spring bells, I saw faint bubbles coming out from the lower part of the air spring. This bag looked almost new but when I removed it, it was apparent the junction where the airbag rubber connects to the metal bell/cone/whatever was slightly leaking.
New bag installed and no more leaks from the rear.

The new air spring, as compared to the leaky one, looked exactly the same at the juncture of the rubber and the steel.

YMMV

seaview 08-03-2021 02:46 PM

I had a similar problem that I corrected when I found one of the solenoid valves on the front manifold was leaking and after taking ther coach to HWH they found a pin hole leak in a left rear air bag. I replaced all the air bags and the solenoid valve and all has been good.

2000 Magna

deandec 08-03-2021 02:54 PM

My Magna started dropping the front end overnight. It had leaked down over a few days normally.

I used a Kenworth shop. They found that the Gillig Leveling valve was the culprit.

It was replaced and seems to hold max air for about 2 weeks. Never below 80 psi.

sbeers 08-03-2021 02:58 PM

Check the low bag pressure indicators on your 6 pack in the front. I have replaced 2 and have a third leaking now. When soaped bubbles might come out the top back side of the unit so you can’t always see them.

These units on the tag 6 pack are not used so I repurposed them where needed and plugged the 2 holes. Tag 6 pack is I’m the pass side frame rail.

WHOOVER770 08-03-2021 03:05 PM

Mystery air leak
 
This was what I found with an air leak on my rig.
HWH Valve Replacement

Hope this helps

phays 08-03-2021 08:02 PM

Don't know if you Magna has ping tanks but my 2000 Magna does. These two tanks are between front wheels up near the floor of the coach. The tanks are connected to the front air bags. On my coach the fittings to these tanks were leaking. I don't remember my leak being as severe as yours but you should check those fittings as well.

sbeers 08-05-2021 08:27 PM

X2 - one of my ping tanks has a swivel connection at the bottom for the water drain and that leaks air when I touch it. That small tank is connected directly to one of the front air bags. On my Affinity the rear tank is reachable from underneath the coach between the front wheels and the front one from the generator compartment. They are small, about the size of a football.

bpu699 08-05-2021 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat (Post 5848672)
The ride height valve seals the air into the lines going to the bags and the bags themself.

If they are deflating, it will be there.

Iím curious...

My front end goes down after a day, rear stays up forever...

If each front tire has its own leveler and air bag, then why do both front ones go down exactly the same?

I could see one going flat randomly... but both? Exactly the same?

smacdiesel 08-05-2021 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phays (Post 5859287)
Don't know if you Magna has ping tanks but my 2000 Magna does. These two tanks are between front wheels up near the floor of the coach. The tanks are connected to the front air bags. On my coach the fittings to these tanks were leaking. I don't remember my leak being as severe as yours but you should check those fittings as well.

That is our last course of action. The shop (Colton Truck Terminal) replaced the front leveling valves and the o rings in the six pack. They separately test pressured the front air bags and there is no leakage there. They are going to pressurize those front ping tanks tomorrow, the last possible place a leak can be happening. Hoping for the best!

a250gpguy 11-05-2021 09:05 PM

Any updates to close this out @smacdiesel

birdhunter 11-05-2021 11:35 PM

Changing chassis batteries
 
Given the far more complex and issues we deal with here, I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this question, but my 2 8D Lifeline chassis/engine batteries have lasted 13 years, so it's been a while since I've changed them. They are now shot. I see the big chassis battery disconnect switch. Flip that switch, remove the cables from the terminals and pull 165 lb. batteries? Pretty straightforward. Any other technical issues? Am I going to have issues if there's no batteries in there for a day? Losing settings, programming for example? It will be plugged into shore power.

Rsponsford 11-06-2021 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 5862148)
Iím curious...



My front end goes down after a day, rear stays up forever...



If each front tire has its own leveler and air bag, then why do both front ones go down exactly the same?



I could see one going flat randomly... but both? Exactly the same?



There are three leveling valves total: two at the rear axle (left and right) only one on the center of the front axel. Sounds like the culprit may be the front leveling valve, not the air springs.

dfuelman 11-06-2021 09:23 AM

Having just replaced the bags on my '01 Intrigue, I am going to say the bags are your issue. My bags looked good while installed on the bus, but once they were removed, showed just how bad they really were. The worst of the dry rot and cracking was not visible while installed. My bus would also leak down and settle over night prior to replacement of all four bags. Now it will hold air for about two days.

It is also much better to make and appointment to have your bags replaced than to have one blowout while you are on the road and be stuck someplace. Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

smacdiesel 11-06-2021 10:51 AM

Just an update on my air leak issue. All airlines were replaced as well as o rings on the six pack. They performed the soap leak test on everything and couldn't find the leak. The passenger side drops only instead of both sides which is progress. The only culprit Colton Truck terminal assumes the problem to be is the actual six pack manifold itself.
I stopped at Premiere RV services last August and they confirmed with their sonic sensor that indeed the six pack manifold has a leak.

Colton ordered a new unit and we are waiting for it to arrive. Everything seems to be six months out.

I'll give in update when the next step proceeds.

Rsponsford 11-06-2021 10:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomper (Post 5849081)
The leveling valves are not in play when the coach is parked and the HWH system is NOT in the travel mode.



My bet would be a solenoid valve. They have O rings that can fail and leak.



NOTE: This applies to the HWH 500 system. I can't say for any other model.



I agree with Boomper. The HWH air leveling system is a separate system from chassis leveling system. The do both use the air bags to perform their individual functions, but you have had them checked and found no leaks. The HWH system uses electric solenoids to control airflow. My coach was having the same problem and it turned out to be two of the solenoids were leaking at the back of each solenoid. The solenoids screw into a manifold and do not have air lines going directly into the solenoids so itís not where one might expect to find a leak. Try soaping the solenoids and see if theyíre leaking. They can be ordered from HWH if you need to replace any of them. Attachment 348246

Rsponsford 11-06-2021 11:01 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 348247

Wasnít really necessary to remove the manifold but I did in my case. You can see one of the new solenoids in the photo. If you do need a new solenoid/s be sure to order the correct one for its function; normally closed, etc. HWH will help you identify the correct one.

Rsponsford 11-06-2021 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smacdiesel (Post 5976401)
Just an update on my air leak issue. All airlines were replaced as well as o rings on the six pack. They performed the soap leak test on everything and couldn't find the leak. The passenger side drops only instead of both sides which is progress. The only culprit Colton Truck terminal assumes the problem to be is the actual six pack manifold itself.

I stopped at Premiere RV services last August and they confirmed with their sonic sensor that indeed the six pack manifold has a leak.



Colton ordered a new unit and we are waiting for it to arrive. Everything seems to be six months out.



I'll give in update when the next step proceeds.



Just saw your update. Sounds like youíre on the right track and making progress.

2dogsbarkin 11-07-2021 06:15 AM

I have been chasing leaks for 8 years now. Get one fixed then a few months later another. I'm actuality looking at relocating all the 6 pack valves to somewhere they I can get to them without crawling under the coach. Air bags are a common leak spot and hard to pinpoint. If they are original may be good to replace them anyway, That's my plan in the near future.
Good luck

smacdiesel 11-07-2021 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2dogsbarkin (Post 5977072)
If they are original may be good to replace them anyway, That's my plan in the near future.
Good luck

Yep, I think that might be my next option. They pressure tested the air bags and they found no drop in PSI. But might as well get them replaced as well. Why not, with that done, my HWH system is almost completely replaced.

I think I will keep this coach for the long haul, once you get them dialed in, who would want start over on another rig?

Rsponsford 11-07-2021 09:20 PM

I replaced all my air springs for peace of mind since I didnít know how old any of them were. I doubt it will fix your leak down issue, but worthwhile if yours are original or if you donít know how old yours are.

a250gpguy 11-12-2021 05:21 PM

Anybody know the HWH part# for the 6 pack manifold solenoids and o rings..?

I plan on replacing my dump/air up and travel mode solenoids in the rear.

This is for a 2005 Magna..

Ch

Rsponsford 11-12-2021 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a250gpguy (Post 5983529)
Anybody know the HWH part# for the 6 pack manifold solenoids and o rings..?

I plan on replacing my dump/air up and travel mode solenoids in the rear.

This is for a 2005 Magna..

Ch



I would order directly from HWH unless youíre certain you have the correct part numbers. https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml11428home.html

a250gpguy 11-13-2021 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rsponsford (Post 5983537)
I would order directly from HWH unless youíre certain you have the correct part numbers. https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml11428home.html

This is my plan...Looked at the manuals HWH online and couldnt find part number...looks like there are several air solenoids but only 1 set of o rings...

I did email the salesperson closest to me but was hoping someone here knew the numbers so I could order asap..

Ch

a250gpguy 11-15-2021 03:00 PM

I wanted to bump this up

Still looking for solenoid part numbers as I would like to get them ordered asap..

Have looked at HWH web and contacted them via email and called the closest local rep..no joy yet.

Cheers
Ch

phays 11-15-2021 07:48 PM

CH, try reaching out to AZPETE. He is on this forum frequently and, I believe, is or was an HWH employee. He has helped a lot of people.

a250gpguy 11-17-2021 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phays (Post 5986915)
CH, try reaching out to AZPETE. He is on this forum frequently and, I believe, is or was an HWH employee. He has helped a lot of people.

Copy..will do

Ch

azpete 11-17-2021 08:40 AM

part number for air solenoids is RAP1940
o ring kit for 6 air solenoids RAP6554

a250gpguy 11-17-2021 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azpete (Post 5988434)
part number for air solenoids is RAP1940
o ring kit for 6 air solenoids RAP6554

Thanks Pete..sent a pm...

are the solenoids all the same or do they have different orifice sizes, or does that matter nowadays?

Ch

a250gpguy 11-18-2021 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a250gpguy (Post 5988917)
Thanks Pete..sent a pm...

are the solenoids all the same or do they have different orifice sizes, or does that matter nowadays?

Ch

Thanks @azpete solenoids ordered...

FYI If anyone else is considering ordering these HWH does not have any in stock and with the current stuff going on in the USA they dont know when they will be getting them..

Also the solenoids are sold with new O rings included.

Ch


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