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dirty12 09-11-2021 12:11 PM

Electrical issue
 
Need help !!!

Lost power to center console for the AC, ie fan and modes. Also tank monitor and useage of power indicator. Have been trying to determine where losing dc power. Tested with generator on all lights, microwave, radio, slide outs, work. Traced poser from batteries to solenoid one side 13.. volts other side no power. Connected to 30 amp shore power (house) no results. Checked power to main fuse box all ok. I have a monaco diplomat 2006. A few months ago change to lithium batteries solenoid is within year old. Going crazy tyring to find what is causing this. Went on long trip in august all was working fine. Am i missing a relay somewhere?

Skip426 09-11-2021 01:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Is the solenoid in the red box ; the one with no power through ??

Compartment under the drivers seat.

dirty12 09-12-2021 04:58 AM

solenoid
 
No the solenoid is in the battery compartment. It is less than 1 year old but I understand electrical can go anytime. Im wondering why only the three components AC tank monitor and amp usage are not working. The AC controller is only bell wire to units. The main breaker has power. I even pulled out the internal fuse box to look into wall for a relay no results.

jacwjames 09-12-2021 07:40 AM

Have you checked the 12 volt battery disconnect for the house batteries. Is it passing power??
The AC, Tank Monitor all require 12 volt power to work. Not sure about the Amp monitor, if it has a 12 volt control circuit it may not work.

YC1 09-12-2021 08:20 AM

Three separate problems is sound like.

Tank monitors have nothing to do with the (dash AC ?). That is they do not share common connections. Not likely anyway.

Amp readout where ? If on the EMS panel and you are on shoreline with 50 amps it will not show usage.

In some cases, if an AC breaker is tripped it will not read.

Starting with the Dash AC. The power for that is probably in the small fuse panel below the large one below the driver outside.

For the tank monitor, go to the wet bay area and check to see if that monitor works.

I'm headed out for the day so don't have time to post schematics. Sorry

dirty12 09-12-2021 09:53 AM

YC1


the AC im referring to is the two roof units the controller is in the center of the unit, connected via bell wire. Checked the main breaker with volt meter and the power is ok at the breaker. The tank monitor is also in the center of the unit both interior and exterior are not reading with 30 amp or generator running tried both ways. Interior lights and ac plugs are working with generator not 30 amp hook up. ( possible transfer swicth?) Tested it appears all power there each feed. IM guessing the EMS panel you are reffering to is on the same panel for slide outs, tank monitor, the adjustment for the shore power which is working. Thank for the support....

jacwjames 09-12-2021 10:00 AM

Does sound like the transfer switch.

Do the AC's work on generator.

dirty12 09-12-2021 10:07 AM

jacwjames

Checked the fuse after the house battery switch has power followed to the solenoid which one side has power the other side does not tried with generator, House power 110 same results. As stated previously solenoid less than year old. Tried with both generator and house power connected same results. Contacted intellitic about a circuit board in main fuse box tested it has power not sure if it is working properly they told me the power issue is in the 12 volt area and not the board, they said it might be a relay. Have some of the wire diagrams for the monaco (thanks to another member of this forum hard to follow but i see no relay between the power and systems not working. But three things not working is not just a broken wire i think.....Thanks for the support

dirty12 09-12-2021 10:11 AM

jacwjames

The controller in the cabin has no power can not even turn on the fan or mode to AC units which is connected to AC via a single bell wire. Is there a way to test if the AC is working bypassing the controller in the cabin? Thanks for the support again.

jacwjames 09-12-2021 10:23 AM

Does your inverter panel have power showing, do the inverter circuits work?



Test your 12 volt circuit from the house disconnect going to the various components. On mine it goes to an isolation type relay (combiner) that ties the house and chassis together with battery boost switch. From there it goes in a couple directions.

There is a large fuse that protects the inverter, check it.
There is a circuit breaker that protects the house side 12 volt circuits. Mine is in the rear passenger side electrical baby.

Check across all of these types of circuits.



I checked my wiring diagram and the EMS requires a 12 volt power feed and it is the same circuit that the tank monitor is on, it is protected by a 15 amp fuse. The AC circuit requires 12 volt to the thermostat for it to work.
All these circuits are protected by a circuit breaker and then individual fuses.

jacwjames 09-12-2021 10:44 AM

I looked in the files section on IRV2 and could not find a diagram for a 2006 Diplomat. On the Monacoers.org website they do have a 2007 wiring diagram, 95 separate diagrams YIKES. If you are not a member you can join.



I did a quick look at what is in the battery compartment and it shows a separate disconnect for the house circuit which in turn feeds the house.


Where is you fuse panel location fall all the house circuits. I would check it to make sure you have power to it and if so then check for any blown fuses.

RandyBarb RV 09-12-2021 12:43 PM

Electrical issue.
 
Have not seen anyone suggest that you check all ground fault outlets. In my Monaco if the ground fault trips in the bathroom several unrelated 12 volt circuits stop working. The ground fault is 110 volt yet it feed something like a relay that powers other 12 volt circuits. On mine the thermostat, main awning, and other 12 volt devices stop working. Just an idea.

jacwjames 09-12-2021 01:28 PM

Doesn't hurt to check for any GFCI's that are tripped.

The roof AC's should not be on a GFCI circuit though. They are controlled by the EMS which will shed them if the load is too high and also need 12 volt for the thermostat.

I'd be checking the 12 volt circuits and see what is and what isn't working.

YC1 09-12-2021 06:59 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Ok, sounds like a 12 volt supply issue. Those circuits on the ems panel run on 12 so chasing transfer switches, gfci's, 110 volt issues won't likely solve the issue.

I will drill down in the diagrams for my 2008 Endeavor. It should be close enough to lead you to the issue.

In the mean time, check your fuse panel in the bedroom. Might be in a closet. Use a test light to check each side of the fuses.

Finding a ground for the test light is the most difficult part. You may be able to connect to your AC breaker panel face screw/s.

Just need a good ground in any case.

jacwjames 09-12-2021 07:44 PM

I see on the fuse location sticker in the picture there is a fuse for the EMS, F18, a 15 amp fuse.

dirty12 09-13-2021 05:13 AM

electrical
 
Thanks for all the support, will take a while to check all the input. I have tried the fuse panel in the closet seems no power there. Used the ground at the Main breaker box. What I cant understand is why the lights and the radio work when the generator is on but not when hooked up to home 110 power, Also the items i mentioned before AC, tank monitor (in and out) and amp usage still not working with generator. While ago had issue with GFI in bathroom for no reason I wondering the person who put that forward stated this plug gave power to a relay circuit which controlled the 12 volt Im having issues will pull that out and check connections

jacwjames 09-13-2021 07:45 AM

Do you have a switch at the front door that controls the 12 volt power, this is sometimes called a "salesman" switch. The switch controls a solenoid switch, if the switch is off then there is no 12 volt power.

The solenoid is also known to fail, some people actually just bypass it.

As suggested earlier, I would start at your house battery disconnect and test power through the circuits. In my case I had an isolation relay that was used to combine house and chassis batteries. On the house side the power goes to the large inverter fuse and also to the above solenoid.

The solenoid that is on my coach looks like this https://www.amazon.com/RODGERS-120-9.../dp/B00DECQXFM but yours could be different.

Within the circuit I also have a couple of circuit breakers.


Only way to find out what is going on is to start at the beginning and test until you loose power.

YC1 09-13-2021 01:01 PM

Fix the obvious first and just keep those other issues for later.

No power to the fuse panel in the bedroom is a problem. I will see if the schematic shows where it comes from and Jim is probably onto the issue.

Go to the large fuse/relay panel up front below the driver.

There is a large relay in the bottom left. See if there is voltage on both large connections.

If voltage on one side only and toggling the switch near the door does not make it come alive then just turn your batteries off for safety and then pile all of the wires from one side of the solenoid onto one post. Either post is fine or just use a nut and bolt but tape it up securely.

Turn you batteries back on and things will come alive and many mysterious issues may go away.

Lots of things depend on that "salesman solenoid". Easy to check.

jacwjames 09-13-2021 03:11 PM

Wow, they put the relay way up there. So power from the batteries goes to the front and then all the way back to the fuse panel in the bedroom. Hope they used a good size cable.



On my coach there is a circuit breaker between the relay and the fuse panel. Not sure on yours.

dirty12 09-14-2021 05:56 PM

electrical
 
Again thank u all for the support. Now for an update on a long day trying to find issue. Verified power to converter and solenoid in battery compartment all good. Next open compartment below driver side. Tried the connection to the solenoid in the box 1 side live other side no power, switched the battery disconnect checked the other side now had power. Also reset the 110 GFi in the bathroom while there. Amazing the power to the AC controller active I thought maybe the soleniod reset or the GFI dont know which but happy to make progress,::thumb: but no fan or AC the EMS for power usage still not lit. Have it hooked up to home 110 power. Checked the transfer switch volt meter show 117 volts on several live wires. power still available at the main breaker. Refridge working as well as microwave and 110 power outlets. Question... For the EMS does it need 50 amp to show power usage. Next im guessing need to go on roof to check AC.:banghead: Love the learning experience now to move on to next issue....And I will get to the bottom of this and hope this info will help other new owners of used RVS will to learn DIY.

PS I was sent numerous files on the Monaco product they appear to be generic but helpful to trouble shoot other things. I was given freely from another person trying to help. If anyone would like these let me know i will attach them to an e-mail but be for warned lots or info...

PS

jacwjames 09-14-2021 07:37 PM

I would check power at the main service panel, there should be a 50 amp breaker which brings power in. The other breakers send it out. Check all of these and make sure they are passing power.

Make sure all you breakers are on, the EMS system uses a couple for the control power.

There is a 3 amp fuse on the EMS circuit board, this is accessed by taking the front panel off the main service panel. Check the fuse. As a last option you can try and do a reset on the EMS system, you have to unplug from shore power, turn off both battery disconnects, pull the fuse and wait 15 minutes. If that doesn't work call M&M electronics and they can help you. https://www.mmrvelectronics.com/ The helped me when mine crapped out.


In an emergency you can wire around the EMS board, when mine failed I wired in one of the AC units to keep the coach cool until I could fix.

YC1 09-14-2021 07:52 PM

So the solenoid up front appears to be working.

Did you check to see if you are getting 12 volts on the fuse panel in the back again??

RandyBarb RV 09-15-2021 07:45 AM

I would appreciate any electrical drawing you have that might work for a 2008 Monaco Camelot. Email address is randymoberg1952@gmail.com. I have contacted Monaco twice through the email feature requesting electrical and plumbing prints and they have not replied. Will try phone call next time.
Thanks, Randy

153stars 09-15-2021 02:04 PM

Edit... I see jacwjames already hit on the subject.

I didn't read every post. Have you shut off any breakers not used in CB panel. The amp/voltage readout for coach, double tap one CB on each leg of of panel no exact choice of these but not the ones for air conditioners . The EMS will disable air conditioning if not reported as incoming power. From my understanding and other posts. Usually it's one breaker was off one leg shows no incoming power and one AC didn't function per EMS .

YC1 09-15-2021 07:04 PM

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqrv2TUdbV6xjjsv...0-iNu?e=S0TUL2

These files have been gathered since buying our Endeavor in 2008. Included are all of the files bought on a cd when they had them.

The files were very hard to sort. Using the index just led you to a numerical file. After several years all of them have been retitled and placed in sensible folders. Not perfect but much better.

Just use your search function in the files and follow the path to the file or files you are interested. Sometimes it will take you to a folder or just individual files.

Many files have added comments learned over the years. Look for small yellow post it notes on pdf files.

This should keep you busy for a time.

dirty12 09-15-2021 08:06 PM

electrical
 
Verified the power to the fuse cluster in the rear closet all fuses tested to 13.44 DC volts. Tested the EMS in the center of the unit hot wire to ground 13 volts DC yellow wire 13 also. Still the AC units or just the fans not working. What do I need to reset? Or is there an issue with the AC units. Have power to main circuit breaker for both AC units. I feel getting close to solving issue.

YC1 09-15-2021 08:25 PM

Look though the files provided. There is a a reset procedure for the dometic thermostat.

jacwjames 09-15-2021 08:50 PM

If you are plugged in to a 50 amp service the load meter will not display any amps.

Try running your generator and then turning on the washer/dryer and see if it works. I think most EMS are set up to shed both AC's, water heater, and Washer and dryer. See if you can get one of those circuits to work.



If you can't get any of the circuits controlled by the EMS system then it's time to look at it.



Again, in an emergency you can bypass any or all of the circuits but will have to limit your total amperage consumption to below 30 amps.

YC1 09-16-2021 08:48 AM

IF you now suspect the AC units are not getting AC voltage you can go to your AC breaker panel and pull the cover off.

Buried on the right most likely is the EMS load shedding board. Use your nose close by to detect any smell of smoke.

There might be a label on the back of the AC panel that shows the pinouts of the EMS board. In any case it is easy to go to either of the AC breakers to see if there is voltage on the output of the breaker wire which then feeds over to the EMS.

Do this for both of the AC unit wires. Then measure all of the screw terminals going down the line. Take note and post those.

I need to review your thread to see what yr etc you have.

Jim is right on the money. With 50 amp shoreline you do not get any current readouts on the EMS.

YC1 09-16-2021 08:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a clip from one of the files I posted a few comments back.

This should give you a visual of what is happening.

At some point in time you indicated you did not have 12 volts on the fuse panel in the bedroom. Or I think that was so. Then you indicated you have it now.

That really does not matter but the EMS board inside the AC breaker panel needs 12 volts to function.

If whatever effected your issue with the lack of 12 volts on that panel cause an issue with the EMS board it could be as simple as a fuse on the board itself.

Download the files shown in previous comments and do a search for EMS. You will come up with the manual I just picked the picture from.

SanCristobus 09-19-2021 05:57 PM

Tank monitor
 
I only know the answer to your tank monitor question. This happened to us a few years back. Whenever you change your batteries your tank monitor will need to be reset. We called the manufacturer and sent it back into them and they reset it free of charge. Hope that helps

THenne1713 09-19-2021 08:49 PM

Does the SOLENOID have 12vdc on the SMALL WIRES TO THE COIL? If so, SOLENOID= BAD. If NOT, which solenoid, where located/ (re: purpose? CHARGE? BOOST? Battery DISCONNECT? A Battery Disconnect Solenoid ONLY requires MOMENTARY power to the COIL to CONNECT/ DISCONNECT. REVERSE POLARITY TO change status/ action. Bad ROCKER SWITCH will not let solenoid work? or solenoid can be bad and still CLUNK. LUCK

John Kaehms 09-19-2021 08:51 PM

Electrical Issue
 
Skip426 posted a picture of the main electrical panel. At the bottom left corner of the picture is a “latching solenoid”. When you press the switch next to the entrance door this press energizes the solenoid which either turns the DC power on or off. Power should then go to a high amp fuse which supplies power to the bank of fuses for all the various systems. The latching solenoid is prone to failure.

The solenoid in the battery compartment is typically a “Trombetta”. This solenoid allows the driver to start the coach if the starting batteries run down....theoretically. However, these solenoids can look perfectly normal from the outside, but...the interior contacts can be so corroded that the solenoid will not function. The solenoid also allows the house batteries to be charged by the alternator once the engine is started. This charging function happens as a result of the operation of the “Isolator Relay Delay” or if so equipped...a “Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay”. I changed out two Trombetta relays before I finally found a Marine Grade “Blue Sea” relay that would work consistently. This solenoid does not supply power to your house systems.

Check your latching solenoid. I suspect that is where you will find your problem.

JK
2007 Monaco Cayman

Eug 09-19-2021 10:01 PM

Monaco loss of electricity
 
I have a2008 Monaco Diplomat, had the exact same loss of 12 volts mostly to the rear of the coach, water pump and also the 110 to the roof AC’s. Found the battery cut out switch beside the passenger seat was shut off. Exact same problem you are having.

gwb2020 09-20-2021 12:02 AM

You have may good suggestion of where to check, but here are three more:
1. Check that the power cut off switch inside the front door on the left by the seat has not been turned off.
2. Check 110 power is coming out of both of the circuit breakers on the inverter.
3. If there is an issue with the power from the 110 circuit breakers, there is a blown fuse in the inverter.
I believe it is a 0.25 amp fuse on one of the boards. You can get to it by removing the cover on the inverter. This is very important: Disconnect the battery cables from the inverter and wait 45 minutes for the unit to discharge. This is critical.
If the batteries were recently replaced, someone may have messed up the wiring, or maybe tried to charge the batteries with an incorrect hook up. They are 6 volt batteries wired to supply 12 volts to the inverter.

WVPete 09-20-2021 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YC1 (Post 5915912)
Here is a clip from one of the files I posted a few comments back.

This should give you a visual of what is happening.

At some point in time you indicated you did not have 12 volts on the fuse panel in the bedroom. Or I think that was so. Then you indicated you have it now.

That really does not matter but the EMS board inside the AC breaker panel needs 12 volts to function.

If whatever effected your issue with the lack of 12 volts on that panel cause an issue with the EMS board it could be as simple as a fuse on the board itself.

Download the files shown in previous comments and do a search for EMS. You will come up with the manual I just picked the picture from.

Following.

David Fewell 09-20-2021 11:03 AM

Ground Faults
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyBarb RV (Post 5910954)
Have not seen anyone suggest that you check all ground fault outlets. In my Monaco if the ground fault trips in the bathroom several unrelated 12 volt circuits stop working. The ground fault is 110 volt yet it feed something like a relay that powers other 12 volt circuits. On mine the thermostat, main awning, and other 12 volt devices stop working. Just an idea.

Good answer my Winniebago does that, if ground fault trip nothing works

YC1 09-20-2021 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Fewell (Post 5920880)
Good answer my Winniebago does that, if ground fault trip nothing works

Since this is a Monaco it is unlikely any gfci will effect 12 volt circuits. In any case, all things are possible but it sure is strange to hear this.

There may be some 12 volt power supplies that come into play on those units.

If the Monaco has a "multiplex system", I have no clue. I have not seen a decent schematic or even a block diagram for those.

Cevin 09-20-2021 05:41 PM

We have a 2008 Monaco Diplomat and have had a similar problem and found it to be the relay on the large circuit board in the run bay under the drivers seat (accessed from the outside). I would have the ac, mirror adjust and mirror heat and a couple of others quit. By changing the relay, everything would come back on. Not sure why and what causes the problem, but it is a very easy fix. Standard automotive relays work. I was able to get the wiring diagram from Rev products. Now I carry a couple extra and usually change about one a year.
Cevin

YC1 09-21-2021 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cevin (Post 5921350)
We have a 2008 Monaco Diplomat and have had a similar problem and found it to be the relay on the large circuit board in the run bay under the drivers seat (accessed from the outside). I would have the ac, mirror adjust and mirror heat and a couple of others quit. By changing the relay, everything would come back on. Not sure why and what causes the problem, but it is a very easy fix. Standard automotive relays work. I was able to get the wiring diagram from Rev products. Now I carry a couple extra and usually change about one a year.
Cevin


Welcome to the forum:

Here is a link to tons of files that will cover your Diplomat systems. Ours is a 2008 Endeavor so are sister ships.

The solenoid you refer to is often called the "Salesman" solenoid/switch system. That solenoid cuts off a lot of stuff and works hard. It can really throw bugs into the system and drive you crazy if you or a fur baby bumps the switch accidentally.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqrv2TUdbV6xjjsv...0-iNu?e=eiYbiT

Download all of the files when you have a good wi-fi. Keep a copy in the cloud or on a thumb drive in the RV.

Chavau 09-21-2021 03:18 PM

Check all your 12v fuses in the back of coach.

Cevin 09-21-2021 03:24 PM

incredible amount of information, thank you. This should answer all of my questions before I even have them!
Cevin

Chavau 09-21-2021 03:25 PM

12v panel on rear of coach runs everything 12v which means your control for a/c wiggle the fuses of may have a blown fuse same happened to me

Joe Maiato 09-21-2021 09:21 PM

I saw a good idea recently to carry a ground around for testing. It was to plug in a grounded extension cord and connect the ground of the test light to the grounding hole in the extension cord!

YC1 09-22-2021 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Maiato (Post 5923096)
I saw a good idea recently to carry a ground around for testing. It was to plug in a grounded extension cord and connect the ground of the test light to the grounding hole in the extension cord!

I used a new plug and some zip wire (speaker wire) connected to the ground lug of the plug. It works great.

An inline fuse would be a good idea but so far have been to lazy to add one. The thing works great because finding a good ground in an RV can be a problem for sure.


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