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-   -   Windows 10 vs 11 ?? (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f53/windows-10-vs-11-a-562927.html)

wagonmaster2 11-28-2021 09:50 PM

Windows 10 vs 11 ??
 
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

NLOVNIT 11-28-2021 09:52 PM

You might try checking this prior thread for input:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f53/wind...te-557449.html

Old-Biscuit 11-28-2021 09:58 PM

I like my old Windows XP.....LOL

Have Windows 10 on new laptop
Not being one that must have the newest/latest I haven't the foggiest idea WHAT Windows 10 is all about (Or 11 for that matter)

Laptops are like new TVs......lots of stuff on them MOST folks don't use or need but it's on there anyway
Pretty much like new vehicles.......

If you find an answer....post back in plain simple English
I'm curious but not enough to research cause most info is in 'geeekspeak'

PbdBlue 11-29-2021 07:46 AM

Mostly it's about security. Anything older than Win 10 is pretty vulnerable. Win 11 adds TPM 2.0 which is a hardware security enhancement. Other than that it's a slightly different interface. I haven't noticed any glaring issues with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

carybosse 11-29-2021 07:49 AM

I used Quicken 2003 up until 2014, when someone tried to share a file with me and I could not open. After a couple of upgrades, I now have thrown in the towel and have their annual subscription.

For my self-employed business, on Quickbooks, I went from 2011 to 2014 when my CPA advised she could no longer open my 2011 files. Went to a new CPA, he doesn't need my digital files, I provide him a report from Quickbooks 2014 each year and he handles my tax return.

My guess is, if the software I have could run on Windows 7, I would be just fine with it. Unfortunately, they have designed in obsolescence so we have to buy new computers and new software, with the subscription software being the way they push to enable them to have ongoing income stream.

lonfu 11-29-2021 09:19 AM

need at least 8mb with windows 10 and an SDD drive will speed it up so that it will be tolerable. no experience with windows 11 but would up the 8mb of ram to 16mb. both the SSD drive and Ram can make a huge performance diff..

mrboyer 11-29-2021 09:43 AM

I just purchased a HP laptop w/512g hard drive & 8g of memory for just under $400.

Spdracr39 11-29-2021 09:45 AM

No issues and not much difference other than it's pretty.

CraigRV2 11-29-2021 09:59 AM

Keep in mind that many (perhaps most or all) computers that were built at the time Window 7 was the latest operating system, will likely not be able to run Windows 11. ~CA

wildtoad 11-29-2021 10:10 AM

If you’re coming from 7, skip 10 and get 11. Either one will be a learning curve. On the flip side 11 is new and will require many updates in the near term. But wait, 10 is older but still requires constant updates. Another backhanded suggestion to get 11. I can’t get 11 unless I buy a new PC which is never going to happen.

JohnBike 11-29-2021 10:13 AM

Get a Mac!

MSHappyCampers 11-29-2021 11:10 AM

I'll wait for others to discover all the bugs! :dance:

Newps 11-29-2021 11:27 AM

About 3 weeks ago my WIN10 laptop told me it was ready to install 11. I thought it might take quite a while as historically OS changes have been quite involved.

It took about 10 minutes to download and about the same amount of time to install. The only thing I needed to do was tell it to go ahead after the download. It installs completely without user interaction. It freshens up the interface but other than that nothing noticeable.

rfg9585 11-29-2021 11:36 AM

The main case for me to go with 11 would be longer lived support. Obviously 10 will run out of support much sooner than 11. If I remember 4 years is the general term for continuing support. 11 will likely work better for future software\hardware\peripherals you might get\want.

edge68474 11-29-2021 11:37 AM

I'm with OldBiscuit. I liked XP. I using 7 now. It's ok.
My system is acting up occasionally so I might have to upgrade, UGH
I think I still have my XP disc, somewhere, lol. :cool:

YC1 11-29-2021 11:43 AM

Been running 10 for years and really like it.

Upgraded to 11 recently and not entirely happy. Not just the learning curve. I'm still climbing that.

Using the file search function on 11 is a real issue. I do a search and on 10 it would let me go right to the file location versus just the single file.

11 makes it very difficult for me to find the file path. That is, it takes several more steps.

There is likely a way for me to change the preferences but have been a bit too busy to take it up on the priority list.

Ten is an excellent system and they did a great job keeping up with security measures.

I see very little improvement in 11 but they claim it will provide better streaming.

If you try to upgrade to any of them it will first analyze your computer to see if it works.

"Get a Mac" is not useful ...

I have had computers since we had to write our own programs. If you are going to jump into the 10/11 from older versions then 11 might be the better way to go as suggested. No reason to learn two operating systems.

Of course backup as always. Did I say backup? Yes, do it again and have at least two backups.

Newps 11-29-2021 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edge68474 (Post 6001020)
I'm with OldBiscuit. I liked XP. I using 7 now. It's ok.
My system is acting up occasionally so I might have to upgrade, UGH
I think I still have my XP disc, somewhere, lol. :cool:


Here's the computer requirements to be allowed to install Win11.


https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...specifications

wagonmaster2 11-29-2021 09:56 PM

Up until a couple years ago I was using a HP laptop with Vista, But since the wife was just playing games on her HP laptop Windows 7 I decided to change with her. Unfortunately a few weeks ago the Windows 7 screen went blank even tho I can hear movements inside.

So went back to my old Vista that is still working, but seeing as how the 7 has crapped out with less use than the Vista surely the Vista won't last much longer. I've already lost all my e-mail on Windows Mail with the Vista since MS no longer supporting it and I'm unable to even access it. As of April every time I try it asks for my ID and Password, which I've never had to do, but have no idea what it's asking for. So speaking, it's gone for me.

Not really excited about going to either a 10 or 11, but one of those happenings you know just has to take place.

Changes are evedent, but not all changes are good. Like was stated above, even XP is still very much usable and good, same with my Vista. Have heard it's really terrible but I'm used to it and have no problems. Just the age of it.

lonfu 11-30-2021 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonfu (Post 6000858)
need at least 8mb with windows 10 and an SDD drive will speed it up so that it will be tolerable. no experience with windows 11 but would up the 8mb of ram to 16mb. both the SSD drive and Ram can make a huge performance diff..

now that is funny... should have written 8gigs of ram.... remember when I bought 8mb's of ram for my apple, paid $350 for it including installation... wow... use to be a staunch supporter of Mac.... just tired of getting screwed on the prices.... , final dig came when they refused to update their net browser for mac 9's. 4 business machines made useless, just down the toilet, $8000.00, never again.... my XP, 7,8, and 10 machines still all work correctly on line and for my LAN network... I consider Mac kinda like going to the dentist these days... 2 fillings and my copay is $3200.00.... hahaaaa... I don't think so...

lonfu 11-30-2021 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6001610)
Up until a couple years ago I was using a HP laptop with Vista, But since the wife was just playing games on her HP laptop Windows 7 I decided to change with her. Unfortunately a few weeks ago the Windows 7 screen went blank even tho I can hear movements inside.

So went back to my old Vista that is still working, but seeing as how the 7 has crapped out with less use than the Vista surely the Vista won't last much longer. I've already lost all my e-mail on Windows Mail with the Vista since MS no longer supporting it and I'm unable to even access it. As of April every time I try it asks for my ID and Password, which I've never had to do, but have no idea what it's asking for. So speaking, it's gone for me.

Not really excited about going to either a 10 or 11, but one of those happenings you know just has to take place.

Changes are evedent, but not all changes are good. Like was stated above, even XP is still very much usable and good, same with my Vista. Have heard it's really terrible but I'm used to it and have no problems. Just the age of it.

I keep windows 7 on a back up laptop, mine still works perfectly, but I don't allow it to do updates. sounds like your main board has failed.

mrboyer 11-30-2021 03:06 PM

I purchased a new HP laptop last Thursday. I did have trouble getting my HP Office Jet Pro 6968 to print duplex. After trying several suggestions that were on line that didnít work, starting a print job from Word did allow the printer options to be change to duplex. So far my old programs(apps) have worked. This laptop doesnít have a cd/dvd drive. Ordered an external UsB for $20 to continue to load software.

There are a few quirky items that I am in the process of charging. I hate to move the mouse pointer over an app and the app opens. I like to be able to control operations. The others are personal preferences. I like a big pointer and no unnecessary animations.

Donít know how much is Windows or the solid state drive and updated processor, but system is much faster.

computerguy 12-01-2021 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newps (Post 6001581)
Here's the computer requirements to be allowed to install Win11.


https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...specifications

Yeah, a while back they (HW and SE vendors) colluded to build in obsolescence into the OS and hardware. Your processor has to be "newer" or you will stop receiving any updates from MicroShaft. Then you become vulnerable to exploits.
These days the cheaper computers have older processors and therefore will not get updates or not get them for long.
It basically forces you to upgrade the hardware even though your current older hardware has more than enough power to do everything you want.
Check here to see what processor you might have and when you will stop receiving updates: MicroShaft Processor Requirements

MSHappyCampers 12-01-2021 11:06 AM

I have our laptops set for automatic updates. Does that mean that Windows 11 will be installed without my consent?

Solo_RV_Guy 12-01-2021 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by computerguy (Post 6003138)
Yeah, a while back they (HW and SE vendors) colluded to build in obsolescence into the OS and hardware. Your processor has to be "newer" or you will stop receiving any updates from MicroShaft. Then you become vulnerable to exploits.
These days the cheaper computers have older processors and therefore will not get updates or not get them for long.
It basically forces you to upgrade the hardware even though your current older hardware has more than enough power to do everything you want.
Check here to see what processor you might have and when you will stop receiving updates: MicroShaft Processor Requirements

The solution for CPUs no longer supported by M$ - some flavor of Linux distribution. The Mint distribution seems popular with folks just starting their journey as a "Friend of Linus". :D

edit ps: I've got several machines on Win 7 that need updated to 10, and then Win10 needs to be 'de-clawed' to my security and bloatware satisfaction. Bah. I suspect at least 2 of these machines will finally have a MOBO failure (Core2 Duo? i7 1st gen?) before I get around to them.

BillJinOR 12-01-2021 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers (Post 6003217)
I have our laptops set for automatic updates. Does that mean that Windows 11 will be installed without my consent?



I think you ďconsentedĒ when you did auto updates. [emoji6] 11from what I saw is actually more of an ďupdateĒ/ refresh. The one windows computer I still have I set updates done automatically as security without is an issue.
Since I went mostly mac and donít ďplayĒ with computers anymore I have much less stress trying to make windows work. I more and more find the windows system annoying. But itís what you get used to I guess.

MSHappyCampers 12-01-2021 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillJinOR (Post 6003245)
I think you ďconsentedĒ when you did auto updates. [emoji6] 11from what I saw is actually more of an ďupdateĒ/ refresh. The one windows computer I still have I set updates done automatically as security without is an issue.
Since I went mostly mac and donít ďplayĒ with computers anymore I have much less stress trying to make windows work. I more and more find the windows system annoying. But itís what you get used to I guess.

Where does it show which system I have?

MSHappyCampers 12-01-2021 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers (Post 6003250)
Where does it show which system I have?

Never mind, I found it! I have Windows 10 Pro

atreis 12-01-2021 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers (Post 6003217)
I have our laptops set for automatic updates. Does that mean that Windows 11 will be installed without my consent?

No. It will be offered, but not forced.
https://www.xda-developers.com/windo...force-upgrade/

Fiesta48 12-01-2021 03:39 PM

Just bought a Chrome Book for $87. New on Walmart black Friday deals.

wagonmaster2 12-01-2021 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta48 (Post 6003421)
Just bought a Chrome Book for $87. New on Walmart black Friday deals.

How does a Chrome Book work? Or, what do you do with it?

lonfu 12-02-2021 03:25 AM

was wondering the same thing? about the chrome book, doesn't it have an non-microsoft op system? wifes laptop has a i5 4core with 12gigs, and is super fast but will no longer up date due to "pending updates" say her lease of windows is up??? meaning what? I paid for that OS and now they are revoking it and refusing to update it unless I pay more??? what a rip off!

Guess I'm going to have to start looking around for another op system as I can't afford to keep paying windows update fees. Her problems started when she signed up for office 365. I have deleted 365 from all my computers now to see if it will prevent the problem.

lemodrop9344 12-02-2021 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonfu (Post 6003784)
was wondering the same thing? about the chrome book, doesn't it have an non-microsoft op system? wifes laptop has a i5 4core with 12gigs, and is super fast but will no longer up date due to "pending updates" say her lease of windows is up??? meaning what? I paid for that OS and now they are revoking it and refusing to update it unless I pay more??? what a rip off!

Guess I'm going to have to start looking around for another op system as I can't afford to keep paying windows update fees. Her problems started when she signed up for office 365. I have deleted 365 from all my computers now to see if it will prevent the problem.


I suspect your Windows OS system is still working & the message pertains to what is now branded as Microsoft 365 (formerly Office 365). Just a thought.

atreis 12-04-2021 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6003701)
How does a Chrome Book work? Or, what do you do with it?

Very similar to a desktop if what you mostly do is browse the internet. You can install SOME (but not all) Android phone apps on a Chromebook, and there's a web browser, and using the browser and Google Docs, you can edit documents, spreadsheets, and the like. But that's about it. They're great low cost, low maintenance, computers if that's all you need.

Watch out for screen resolution. The very inexpensive ones can have very small, and low resolution, screens. They also often don't have backlit keyboards if that matters to you.

FWIW, I have both a Windows laptop and a Chromebook (Acer Spin 713 - it has a nice screen). I use the Chromebook in my office for doing personal email while working. They don't allow us to do personal email on our work computers.

Half Dimes 12-05-2021 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PbdBlue (Post 6000763)
Mostly it's about security. Anything older than Win 10 is pretty vulnerable. Win 11 adds TPM 2.0 which is a hardware security enhancement. Other than that it's a slightly different interface. I haven't noticed any glaring issues with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module


Fully agree. I've updated my desktop and laptop to 11 with no issues. Was about a 5 minute learning curve to use. My wife's desktop on Windows 10 couldn't be updated because of its older Core i3 processor without the TPM 2.0 module.

KPMullen 12-05-2021 02:49 PM

Windows 10 v Windows 11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone have any experience with Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

I don't see a lot of differences aside from the interface. That takes a little getting used to. I got Windows 11 with a new laptop as well. The biggest difference I've found is with the newer processors. The difference in speed with 6 cores and 12-18 threads is amazing.

I'm a full-timer with heavy reliance on my laptop for everything from email and zoom meetings to streaming. The difference is hard to believe.

Kevin

DiverTracy 12-05-2021 02:58 PM

The only practical option on a PC is the operating system. 1. Windows (Microsoft) 2. iOS (Apple). This is a long term decision. Then, accept that you will always run the most current version. Thirty years of history suggests that when an OS launches a new full version, it is prudent to wait a few weeks or so. But, know that you will go, you will be forced into, the most current version, eventually.. Why waste time and headache? Today- take Windows 10 with unrestricted access to move to 11, for free, for a reasonable passage of time.

OldracerJim 12-05-2021 03:05 PM

I've been using 11 for a week now and you really can't tell any difference except the way it looks. The only issue I had was using the Win 10 "connect" function to stream content from my computer to the TV. I could not for the life of me find the menu option in Win 11. It's under settings/display/multiple displays/connect. Not a good change.

PLDieter 12-05-2021 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.


Just recently upgraded from 10 to 11. Ho hum. Other than a few minor cosmetic differences, I don't see any huge improvements. The jump from 7 to 10, however is a bit more dramatic, but I suspect you'll be pleased after a VERY brief learning curve. Even then, the majority of the changes are cosmetic.:dance::banghead::dance:

DougJames65 12-05-2021 03:08 PM

Computer Professional
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

I recently bought a new compact desktop computer for our Coach which came with Windows 10. I got a notification it was ready for Windows 11, so I went on with the install. Windows 11 makes the computer very childish like it was designed by a 16 year old kid. After 1 week, I went back to Windows 10.

PLDieter 12-05-2021 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YC1 (Post 6001032)
Been running 10 for years and really like it.

Upgraded to 11 recently and not entirely happy. Not just the learning curve. I'm still climbing that.

Using the file search function on 11 is a real issue. I do a search and on 10 it would let me go right to the file location versus just the single file.

11 makes it very difficult for me to find the file path. That is, it takes several more steps.

There is likely a way for me to change the preferences but have been a bit too busy to take it up on the priority list.

Ten is an excellent system and they did a great job keeping up with security measures.

I see very little improvement in 11 but they claim it will provide better streaming.

If you try to upgrade to any of them it will first analyze your computer to see if it works.

"Get a Mac" is not useful ...

I have had computers since we had to write our own programs. If you are going to jump into the 10/11 from older versions then 11 might be the better way to go as suggested. No reason to learn two operating systems.

Of course backup as always. Did I say backup? Yes, do it again and have at least two backups.


Try right-clicking on the file. I think it will show you "open in location" or something. Otherwise, yes, you can change settings in Windows Explorer to show more of the pathway. :dance::dance::dance:

PLDieter 12-05-2021 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6001610)
Up until a couple years ago I was using a HP laptop with Vista, But since the wife was just playing games on her HP laptop Windows 7 I decided to change with her. Unfortunately a few weeks ago the Windows 7 screen went blank even tho I can hear movements inside.

So went back to my old Vista that is still working, but seeing as how the 7 has crapped out with less use than the Vista surely the Vista won't last much longer. I've already lost all my e-mail on Windows Mail with the Vista since MS no longer supporting it and I'm unable to even access it. As of April every time I try it asks for my ID and Password, which I've never had to do, but have no idea what it's asking for. So speaking, it's gone for me.

Not really excited about going to either a 10 or 11, but one of those happenings you know just has to take place.

Changes are evedent, but not all changes are good. Like was stated above, even XP is still very much usable and good, same with my Vista. Have heard it's really terrible but I'm used to it and have no problems. Just the age of it.


If you haven't been hacked, hit with ransomware, or spied on with XP or Vista, it's just sheer luck. Those OS's are BOTH really vulnerable to security risks. In fact, that's the main reason for most Windows upgrades. :dance::dance::dance:

PLDieter 12-05-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrboyer (Post 6002282)
I purchased a new HP laptop last Thursday. I did have trouble getting my HP Office Jet Pro 6968 to print duplex. After trying several suggestions that were on line that didnít work, starting a print job from Word did allow the printer options to be change to duplex. So far my old programs(apps) have worked. This laptop doesnít have a cd/dvd drive. Ordered an external UsB for $20 to continue to load software.

There are a few quirky items that I am in the process of charging. I hate to move the mouse pointer over an app and the app opens. I like to be able to control operations. The others are personal preferences. I like a big pointer and no unnecessary animations.

Donít know how much is Windows or the solid state drive and updated processor, but system is much faster.


That "instant open" deal is a setting you can adjust.:facepalm::banghead::dance:

EngineerRick 12-05-2021 03:20 PM

I'll suggest looking into, maybe subscribe for 1 Email/week, Ask Woody. I've been favorably impressed over the years and, since Woody retired, the folks carrying on seem to be on par. https://www.askwoody.com/newsletter/...ivacy-in-2021/ is the latest newsletter. My takeaway is that Windows 11 provides a stronger level of security and extremely little else.

EngineerRick 12-05-2021 03:29 PM

Those with older Windows based apps might try running them with WINE under Linux. I've been using Ubuntu Linux for 10 years and like it. The latest editions have changed the user interface just a little to be more like Windows. WINE is a Windows emulator, I've got very little experience with it, believe it keeps older Windows function, and have read reports that it's much more capable in the latest versions. An older computer will likely run Ubuntu and the only cost to try is your time, as it's open source software.

Saf 12-05-2021 03:31 PM

maybe a scam
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PbdBlue (Post 6000763)
Mostly it's about security. Anything older than Win 10 is pretty vulnerable. Win 11 adds TPM 2.0 which is a hardware security enhancement. Other than that it's a slightly different interface. I haven't noticed any glaring issues with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module


Linux doesn't do all the updates and loads much faster even on old machines and seems secure. I don't think it's our security they update for but theirs, by updating their spying capacity on us and/or seeing what we have been doing.


.

Igeaux 12-05-2021 03:34 PM

We were always Mac people,
 
Now Appel is as bad as Microsoft for constant up dates and incompatibility with legacy software.

We are all LINUX now. Could not be happier. Haven't had a crash in over a year.

Back at the Team garage, we have a LINUX RedHat server that has been online 24/7 since 2009.

Brent Rasmussen 12-05-2021 04:06 PM

Linux Mint
 
Not trying to derail the conversation, but this needs to be said:

If you are coming from XP, W7, or Vista, and you are concerned about the Windows 11 fiasco that is brewing, you owe it to yourself to try out Linux Mint.

It's an OS that "just works" - like the older stable versions of Windows. Mint is a joy to use. It works great on older hardware and newer hardware. The install is bone-simple and again, it "just works".

There is very little risk from viruses when you run Linux Mint. It finds and installs drivers for all your peripherals and printers with no muss, no fuss. In 30 minutes you could have a brand new-feeling PC.

Best of all, Linux Mint is 100% free, as are all of the native Linux apps. People will tell you to run Wine so you can continue to run your old favorite Windows apps, and that is true - but the Linux app ecosystem is HUGE, free, and very robust. I'll bet there's a Linux equivalent for nearly every app you've ever used that does it better, simpler, and FREE.

I've been running Mint for 15 years now. I am an IT professional, and I support Windows machines in my day job. Trust me, Mint is worth a look - especially if you are worried about the new hardware requirements, and the way that windows has just become an expensive marketing vehicle. You are PAYING Microsoft to give you advertisements on your own computer. Why? :)

xyzabc 12-05-2021 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBike (Post 6000910)
Get a Mac!



Yep guaranteed to be obsolete in 3 years. That's about as long as Apple will let you upgrade their expensive toys.

Got screwed with a Mac we owned, bought new at release and no OS upgrades after 3 years. Went to an Apple store and was told, sorry, you need a newer Mac, no trade in. And it would only cost your right arm and left leg. Never will buy another Apple product again. But they really have a very PR department. Able to sell minor upgrades as a big deal.

JeffSage 12-05-2021 04:17 PM

The issue is if you donít stay fairly current you risk security holes. With Quicken, they only support 3 years back. If you can afford to loose your data then you donít need to keep a supported version. I have 42 years in the computer industry.

rmassaro 12-05-2021 04:30 PM

Drop Windows and go with Mac
 
I have worked with IT and networks since the late 1980s. I was a devoted PC and Windows guru until 2008. Thatís when the Mrs let me buy an IMac for myself for Xmas. I never looked back. My 2009 IMac 27Ē still works as good as any pc and my 2011 MacBook Pro with quad core I7 and 16 mg ram still delivers. I am using it on my lap now. I still use a HP with 3 monitors for work- that is what corporate says I shall use. A new MacBook Air or Pro isnít that much and by golly they will deliver solid results for years. In my case well over 10. I donít care how devoted a PC person is- they are not the same machine- period. How many people use an IPhone versus a Microsoft phone? I donít worry about all the other gibberish that comes with a pc and itís vulnerability. Your choice but you asked and from almost 40 years of using PC types and later Mac- no comparison- none. I drive a BMW 328i Xdrive because I needed AWD and at the same time my company requires low carbon footprint and good gas mileage. There werenít any affordable US built cars that met the company requirements. Just European and Asian. The car delivers superior driving in all weather- I now live in West Virginia but was in western NY south of Buffalo for almost 5 years and the BMW never let me down. I feel the same for Apple products. You may pay more upfront but in the long run you will save money over the long haul.

MotownTom 12-05-2021 04:42 PM

Software Upgrade Learning Curve
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

You're right. Either one is going to require a frustrating period figuring out how to navigate and accomplish familiar tasks. So, it makes the most sense to go to Windows 11 and save yourself the 10 to 11 BS. :cool:

billley 12-05-2021 04:47 PM

Unless you're on a tablet do NOT "downgrade" to Windows 11. If you use a keyboard the Win 11 interface will drive you crazy. 10 is okay. And do a system restore back up first!

Gforceone 12-05-2021 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

Seems like wrong forum to me. However, Iím sure youíll get some feedback. Not sure Iíd look to RV peeps as computer experts . Just Saying 😁

Zymurgest 12-05-2021 04:58 PM

AFAIK, this is the first OS release to have "special" requirements from your hardware other than CPU speed, memory amount, and storage capacity. While they claim its about security (which is tangentially true), it's more about selling new computers IMHO as the WHWQL certification does not extend to computers without the latest CPU's, motherboards, and storage (no support for HDD's, just SSD's, and M.2 drives). Even though my computer passes all the recommended requirements, windows health and diagnostic software said my CPU was too "old", yet it exceeds their stated requirements for speed by 4X (4 Ghz), and HDD space (2 TB), and motherboard (Crosshair IV AM3+). Seems like the hardware manufacturers have gotten Microsoft to work with them in selling more new machines, which have dwindled to almost next to nothing these past two years. Just my personal opinion, but it does stink to high heaven of collusion!

Steve578 12-05-2021 05:12 PM

Just got the free upgrade to 11 from 10. I can't see much difference in the way it works.

WagonMaster 12-05-2021 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6001610)
Up until a couple years ago I was using a HP laptop with Vista, But since the wife was just playing games on her HP laptop Windows 7 I decided to change with her. Unfortunately a few weeks ago the Windows 7 screen went blank even tho I can hear movements inside.

So went back to my old Vista that is still working, but seeing as how the 7 has crapped out with less use than the Vista surely the Vista won't last much longer. I've already lost all my e-mail on Windows Mail with the Vista since MS no longer supporting it and I'm unable to even access it. As of April every time I try it asks for my ID and Password, which I've never had to do, but have no idea what it's asking for. So speaking, it's gone for me.

Not really excited about going to either a 10 or 11, but one of those happenings you know just has to take place.

Changes are evedent, but not all changes are good. Like was stated above, even XP is still very much usable and good, same with my Vista. Have heard it's really terrible but I'm used to it and have no problems. Just the age of it.

I'm going to tell you what I did, not necessarily what you should do. Went to Walmart on line and bought a 14" HP laptop for around $360.00. It only had 4g of memory so I spent 28.00 for 8g and installed it myself after watching a you tube video. It came with Win10 but today it automatically updated to Win11, and I really like it. Things seemed to be speedier. So I've got less than 400 bucks in it and it does everything I want. It's light and the battery lasts a long time. I would definitely not get any less memory than 8g. The model is 14-DK1032wm....looks like it's priced at 329.00 but you will definitely need to upgrade the RAM to 8G. Amazon for 28.00. Good luck.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-14-FHD...32wm/958632817

JeffSage 12-05-2021 05:31 PM

Chromebook vs Windows
 
There are several people asking about the difference between Chromebooks and Windows. I will try to break it down:

A computer running the full Windows operating system is capable of locally running programs and has local storage. This would be things like Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Adobe Photo Editor, certain VPN programs and any other full blown application. Now each application will have specifications that the machine will need to meet.

A Chromebook is designed to run all its applications that run from the cloud. If all you need to do is use a web browser for items that you access a Chromebook may be for you. So does that mean you canít use programs like Word, Excel & PowerPoint? No. If you subscribe to Office365 for as little as $5/month, you can run most Microsoft programs in a browser. It is not quite as rich of a user experience as the full blown program, but it works well. Alternatively, you can use the Google suite.

So simplistically, most people can use a Chromebook, but you will need a cloud based storage system as well. Make sure you back that up as well.

arboldt 12-05-2021 05:36 PM

I'm still on Windows 7. I've thought about upgrading to W10 or W11 (on a new laptop) but much of the software I sometimes use won't run on it. Well I don't use it often but have hours and hours of data that I don't want to lose but only refer to a couple times a year. Upgrading that software would cost about $2,000 - $4,000. I don't use it enough to justify that expense but don't want to lose the data either.

NeverGrowUp 12-05-2021 07:14 PM

XP
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit (Post 6000504)
I like my old Windows XP.....LOL

Have Windows 10 on new laptop
Not being one that must have the newest/latest I haven't the foggiest idea WHAT Windows 10 is all about (Or 11 for that matter)

Laptops are like new TVs......lots of stuff on them MOST folks don't use or need but it's on there anyway
Pretty much like new vehicles.......

If you find an answer....post back in plain simple English
I'm curious but not enough to research cause most info is in 'geeekspeak'

XP WAS A GREAT SYSTEM, and I go back before Windows.

Wwdnet 12-05-2021 07:26 PM

I just upgraded to Win11 from Win10; very little, if any, noticeable change in functionality.

mgoldstone 12-05-2021 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

Microsoft offers a free upgrade from WIN 10 to WIN 11. I did this and everything seems to be working OK. You will have to run a diagnostic to test the compatability of your hardware with WIN 11 first.

gmast 12-05-2021 09:03 PM

windows 10 vs 11
 
I replaced my aging Lenovo W520 with a Microsoft Surface Pro v7. Excellent, compact and fast. Win10 OS but Microsoft upgraded automatically, free and I have had no problems.

Bainbridge 12-05-2021 09:57 PM

I've been running Win 11 for several months on my test computer and just upgraded my main computer from Win 10 to Win 11. I preferred the Win 7 menu style over the Win 10 and ran a utility called Classic Shell which duplicated the Win 7 menu under Win 10. This program will not run under Win 11 but I prefer the Win 11 style menu over the Win 10 so it doesn't really bother me. Win 10 is supposed to be supported into 2025 and doesn't offer any earthshaking advantages that I've found. It does a lot of cosmetic changes like moving the taskbar to the center of the screen. I am running it on two older Intel 6-core I7 processors with 8gb memory and don't have the TPM 2.0 or Secure Boot that is required for installation but there are several work-a-rounds to accomplish this. I'm still running Win 10 on my 4 gb laptop and third desktop 4-core AMD with 8 gb memory. I haven't found any incompatibilities and the upgrade is pretty straightforward if you just want to bite the bullet and be on the leading edge. If you're happy with Win 10 and want to wait a couple years or so to upgrade you won't be missing that much. Microsoft has been releasing upgrade versions to Win 11 every couple weeks so it's a work in progress. I'm probably on the 8th or 9th version since install.


Bob B.
2007 Winnebago Voyage 35L
1994 Saturn SW2

Olroache 12-06-2021 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

I just recently updated one of my computers to 11. I wish I didnít. I lost some functionality that I value. I do not know enough about 11 to speak on its stability what I can say is 10 is VERY stable and reminds me of Win2000. I wonít be updating my other systems until forced to.

LarryJB 12-06-2021 06:17 AM

FYI for all that are running Windows 7 and below. Since Microsoft has dropped support for these versions, you are no longer receiving any updates, which includes security updates. This also means that it is no longer safe to use these versions connected to the internet. You are taking a risk of being hacked and having your identity stolen every time you access the internet using these older versions of windows.
Do what you want, but just be aware of the risks you are taking.

Iceman-31D 12-06-2021 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiverTracy (Post 6007361)
The only practical option on a PC is the operating system. 1. Windows (Microsoft) 2. iOS (Apple). This is a long term decision. Then, accept that you will always run the most current version. Thirty years of history suggests that when an OS launches a new full version, it is prudent to wait a few weeks or so. But, know that you will go, you will be forced into, the most current version, eventually.. Why waste time and headache? Today- take Windows 10 with unrestricted access to move to 11, for free, for a reasonable passage of time.

As someone who started out writing my own programs, and followed Microsoft upgrades from DOS 1.0 and up, I have to disagree with the above statement. Never (I said never) upgrade because a new version has come out. If you MUST upgrade to keep things working, then absolutely, but if it is working, leave it alone. All software and hardware vendors put out new products to encourage upgrades and improve cash flow. In my experience, 50% of upgrades are to generate cash flow for vendors. And as far as no longer receiving upgrades for your windows 7 system, if you are running a good anti-virus program, who cares? The time and frustration with learning new software, and the need for new software to run under it, rarely make it economical. A necessity sure, but not economical. My Windows 7 laptop runs perfect and does all I need. I have plenty of backups, and when my unit quits, I will grudgingly upgrade the minimum amount I can. 30 years in IT taught me some hard lessons...

Danj2001 12-06-2021 07:13 AM

No thanks.

DrSteve 12-06-2021 07:28 AM

A Tale of OS Upgrades
 
I had been using Windows 7 and was happy with it. Then, my hard drive crashed. (Did anyone say "backup"?) So, put in a new hard drive, and wanted to reload Windows 7. (I had some experience with Windows 8 on a work computer, and was very less than thrilled.) However, by that time, I couldn't find a way to reload 7; I was stuck with Windows 10.

After getting over the newness of 10, I was glad I couldn't go back to 7. There are a lot of features to 10 that I really like. For example, I can pair my Android phone to my computer, and read and write texts from the screen/keyboard. My wife and I now live by our Windows 10 sharable calendar. It was worth going through the learning curve, and I'm thoroughly enjoying 10 vs 7. Visually, the transition appeared to be a bigger issue than it was.

JeffSage 12-06-2021 09:01 AM

Windows 10 S and Inexpensive Laptops - Information
 
Please note that Windows 10S is closer to a ďChromebookĒ than a ďPCĒ. Please see my previous response on Chromebook vs. PC above.

Windows 10S is limited in only allowing loading of apps found in the Microsoft store. This is not bad, just not the same as Windows 10 or 11 or 7.

Knowledge is key. The PC world has a lot of information to understand and many right answers to choose from. I hope this is helpful to at least one person.

I have been in this industry since before the PC was a thing (yes that makes me an old fart, but a young one). Happy to answer any questions I can.

Wish I knew as much about DPs as I do about PCs. The difference as few letters make.

jkorn 12-06-2021 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 (Post 6000495)
Been looking at new laptops and most come with Windows 10 with free opportunity for the store to upgrade to Windows 11. Anyone with any experience with the Windows 11 yet?

Since I'm jumping up from Windows 7 either one will be a big improvement, BUT, is one better or nicer to work with than the other. No idea at all what either is all about.

Not a HUGE difference between 10 and 11. But you will see some from w7. Not the end of the world, it will just you some time to adjust.

I would recommend looking for a laptop with i5 processor and a SSD drive instead of a traditional hard drive. You will see everything run faster and appreciate the new computer more. Jeff.

Bedlam 12-06-2021 10:03 AM

Windows 11 reports on your usage more than previous Microsoft operating systems. I have a number of systems running Windows 10 and can accept or mitigate much of the data leakage from it but not from 11 in its current state. I have many more systems running Lubuntu which is a light weight version of Ubuntu that even performs well on 15 year old hardware. I have tried Chromebooks, but they don't give me anything I cannot get from Ubuntu plus I have less ties to Google's snooping (Amazon is the most invasive). I have tried a couple of PC's with Android installed, but the support for drivers is not there and I would not suggest it to anyone but a techie.


Those of you staying on Windows can get a little more privacy by using LibreOffice for documents, Mozilla Thunderbird for email, Mozilla Firefox for browsing and Duck Duck Duck Go as your search homepage.

Steve 716 12-06-2021 11:16 AM

Windows 10 vs Windows 11
 
The Windows 10 platform is obtrusive. Sometimes I have to go into my Windows account settings and/or my desktop settings to turn off permissions that a Windows 10 update turned back on. Sometimes I find a new permission within my account and I have to decide how I want to set it. Sometimes an update also downloads new software that I may or may not want or have a use for. It is difficult to locate in the Windows forums information specific to issues I am having. Too often a discussion on a specific topic I want more information on is closed. Microsoft does not tell us what changes an update creates. If you donít check your Microsoft account and desktop settings you will have no idea what it going on. I think Microsoft depends on most people not checking.

Per my two sons (one is an engineer who finds holes in software and the other is in charge of IT worldwide for his company), whose opinions I trust completely, Windows 11 is even more obtrusive. Itís essentially a combination of a face lifted Windows 10, a more advanced advertising platform, and a more robust tracker for placing unwanted ads. I assume that outside software that is compatible with Windows 10 will also be compatible with Windows 11, but I havenít found anything that specifically tells me that it is. There are a lot of Windows 10 compatible programs that need to be tested. I do not want to upgrade to Windows 11 and lose the functionality of any of my Windows 10 compatible programs. I still use Office 2007 Word, Excel, One Note, and Picture Manager. Fortunately Windows 10 still supports Office 2007. I use Mailbird in place of Outlook. (If you decide to make Mailbird your e-mail program, please use my name as a reference). Will Windows 11 continue to be compatible with Office 2007? My sons canít answer this question yet. I do not want to replace Office 2007 with Microsoftís cloud based Office 365 rental software. Depending on my RV park location I may not get internet access to use Office 365.

When Windows 10 was released, it was very buggy and too many of its components either did not function as well as they had on Windows 7 or did not function at all. It took very many months before Microsoft resolved all of these issues. As is standard with Microsoft, Windows 10 was still under development when it was released and they left it to their customers to find problems. The same will happen with Windows 11. It is what Microsoft has always done. So if you decide to upgrade to Windows 11, at least wait until it is fully functional. You also should check to make sure other software you use is compatible.

Microsoft claimed that Windows 10 would be its final Windows platform, so why did Windows 11 suddenly appear? They havenít completely answered this question.

I have no plans to upgrade to Windows 11 unless Microsoft stops supporting Windows 10 or they make Windows 11 something magical for its users.

Bedlam 12-06-2021 11:35 AM

Windows 10 support ends in 2025. The latest update to 21H2 will now put Windows 10 into a yearly instead semi yearly update schedule until its end. Security updates will continue monthly and we have been told emergency updates will still arrive as completed rather than set schedule.

rfg9585 12-06-2021 12:41 PM

Just got my new box Saturday and have it configured with W11 pretty much like I want. Currently use MS acct but may switch over to local acct to avoid MS spying. I have integrated google and Office 365 into the mix and pretty please with the performance of the Intel I9. I moved from the mac and I am so glad to get off that POS. Me being an old developer from the pre-PC days thru windows it was a good move. I have always liked to stay on the bleeding edge of tech.....

Bedlam 12-06-2021 01:17 PM

For those wanting to try Linux, many are able to boot live off CD, DVD or USB so you can test which or any work for you. Here are some for beginners:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/best-l...for-beginners/


Here are more options:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/best-l...tops-for-pros/


Jack has many good articles on Linux:
https://www.techrepublic.com/meet-th...s/jack-wallen/

Bill Croy 12-06-2021 01:44 PM

Windows 10 or 11?
 
Here are my thoughts. Windows 11 is basically windows 10 that has been revamped to be more secure, providing your hardware is new enough to handle it. It is also more tablet and touch screen friendly and the start screen looks similar to that of a smart phone with a similar appearence to a MAC product. On a personal note: I do not and will not own any MAC or i-product because of software and security problems, and just their world perception. [end personal note] I do recommend 16 meg of memory or more if you can swing it. If at all possible I stay away from SSD's for anything but long term storage as they still do not like a lot of rewrites. If you really need a fast drive response, go with 7900 rpm drive or similar device with wide transfer buffer. These are usually the 5.5 inch SATA drives. If you really need high performance (for business not home use) get a machine with an intel i7 multi-processor with a four (or more) drive raid array with 32 meg or more memory. Deduct the cost as a business expense, its not cheap. Long story short, if you are satisfied with your windows 10 and have a good device, keep it. Windows 10 will be supported untill 2025 when it will be obsoleted. I use both win 10 & 11 and Linux Ubuntu. I stared with computers that ran on CPM, DOS 2, and VMS. If you have to look those up, don't feel bad as it was 40 years ago. As they say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Stay safe, be happy, and have fun. Bill

alajeu 12-06-2021 01:52 PM

Every time I have succumbed to the temptation to upgrade, I have paid for it dearly with regret. I now have Windows 10 and will upgrade no more.

Alajeu

Newps 12-06-2021 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Croy (Post 6008628)
I do recommend 16 meg of memory or more


You mean Gigs.

permitwriter 12-06-2021 09:03 PM

Software (and websites) are like a maze. You learn your way through the maze and you are good to go. Then comes the dreaded "upgrade". "More user friendly!" "Better interface!" "Fresh look!" "Better Organization!" On and on they crow. But it's none of that. It's just a different maze. And we get to learn it all over again. Then we are good to go. Again. But, inevitably, more upgrades, new mazes, on and on it goes FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE! :banghead:

Bill Croy 12-07-2021 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonfu (Post 6003784)
was wondering the same thing? about the chrome book, doesn't it have an non-microsoft op system? wifes laptop has a i5 4core with 12gigs, and is super fast but will no longer up date due to "pending updates" say her lease of windows is up??? meaning what? I paid for that OS and now they are revoking it and refusing to update it unless I pay more??? what a rip off!

Guess I'm going to have to start looking around for another op system as I can't afford to keep paying windows update fees. Her problems started when she signed up for office 365. I have deleted 365 from all my computers now to see if it will prevent the problem.

If you bought the software with licenses them it does not expire. Micrsoft does not rent software. Sounds like you have been hit with a malware / ransom ware. You will probably have to do a clean reinstall on that machine.

Bill Croy 12-07-2021 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newps (Post 6008760)
You mean Gigs.

Yes I did. Thanks.

Bill Croy 12-07-2021 09:04 AM

Hard Disk drive vs Solid State Drive
 
Just a note about drives. There are various types of Drives for data storage. First is the tried and true Hard Disk drive. Whether it be a 3.5, or a 2.5 inch device they all have a hard metallic disk coated with a magnetic surface. These disk spin at a prescribed speed and are written to and read from by magnetic read write "heads" sort of like a tape based recorder. There may be only one "platter" or multiple "platters" making up the drive. Most common drives run at a speed of 3600 rpm while the drives use by servers and data storage units will run at 7200 rpm for quicker read/write response times. The new Solid State Drive is just that. I has no moving parts. It is basically a massive ram stack. Yes it is faster than a hard drive for read write functions, however they tend not to tolerate frequent rewrites. They are great for system drives where the OS is not rewritten often or for data apps that need access to data quickly on a read mostly basis. If you need more that 250 Mega bites non formatted space the you are out of luck for the foreseeable future. Just keep the differences in mind when thinking about a new drive for your machine. When I order a new machine and can only one with a SSD for the system disk, I also order it with second HDD with 2 Tera bites of space. OS on the SSD and everything else on the HDD.
Have fun, be safe.
Bill KC5-CPU
2005 Georgie Boy (Coachmen) 35' MH

smiller 12-07-2021 01:33 PM

SSD have come a long way in recent years, plus OS's now automatically detect and modify operations to suit SSD characteristics and increase longevity. A modern SSD will probably outlast the device it is installed in.

lo-tek 12-07-2021 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLDieter (Post 6007390)
If you haven't been hacked, hit with ransomware, or spied on with XP or Vista, it's just sheer luck. Those OS's are BOTH really vulnerable to security risks. In fact, that's the main reason for most Windows upgrades. :dance::dance::dance:

Thank you for bringing this up. I cringe when I hear people running the legacy desktop operating systems. You really are vulnerable no matter how secure you think you are.

Disclaimer: Microsoft employee.

RobReab 12-07-2021 02:16 PM

X2 from another IT Pro (40+ years)

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiller (Post 6009665)
SSD have come a long way in recent years, plus OS's now automatically detect and modify operations to suit SSD characteristics and increase longevity. A modern SSD will probably outlast the device it is installed in.


RobReab 12-07-2021 02:17 PM

X2 on this one too!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lo-tek (Post 6009671)
Thank you for bringing this up. I cringe when I hear people running the legacy desktop operating systems. You really are vulnerable no matter how secure you think you are.

Disclaimer: Microsoft employee.


JeffSage 12-07-2021 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobReab (Post 6009714)
X2 on this one too!!

Another ditto. For most people SSD drives are the only way to go, unless you are building a server farm and then cost and IOPs play into it and you know what you are doing. The number of SSD drives I have had die on me and my clients ove the last 40+ years (going by percentage) is minimal, no moving parts.

CWSWine 12-08-2021 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffSage (Post 6010215)
Another ditto. For most people SSD drives are the only way to go, unless you are building a server farm and then cost and IOPs play into it and you know what you are doing. The number of SSD drives I have had die on me and my clients ove the last 40+ years (going by percentage) is minimal, no moving parts.

I use to tell my customers that "Hard Drives have motors and good motor is one the has quit working yet".

Bedlam 12-08-2021 07:57 AM

I use large arrays of solid state drives without failure. Recently there were chip issues with some manufacturers, but it should be sorted out now. Early generations of SSD had more failures and mechanical disk spinning as fast as 15k rpm were a better choice. Today, mechanical is still better priced but SSD is available in 2TB or larger drives.

Knittler 12-08-2021 03:47 PM

Running windows XP is the equivalent to driving an RV built in 1990Ö


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