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-   -   Price of a new Diesel Pusher (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/price-of-a-new-diesel-pusher-581357.html)

Keith55 05-21-2022 05:52 AM

Price of a new Diesel Pusher
 
WOW!:eek:

I have been looking to get a little newer DP and have been looking at pricing. I was hoping to get the "Big Block" with at least the 1250 pounds of torque.

Yes, I know there is a lot to these rigs but have to admit I got a little sticker shock to see $650,000 as a "not out of line" price for RV's in this arena.

Never seriously looked at new before.

Many parts of the country you can buy a couple acres of land and a heck of a home for $650,000!! Yes, I know that is peanuts in Cali.

I guess there is just a completely different income class than me that can afford $650,000 whether they are full timing or as a heavily used get away.

Not sure why I felt the need to post except sheer shock of that price!

jacwjames 05-21-2022 06:01 AM

Yup, and considering a RV of any type is a depreciating asset makes it even worse.
Yes, there are different classes of people. Some people can afford to buy a new rig and if you follow some of the threads on the top end coaches and look at signatures some owners trade every other year.



For me I'll keep my 20 year old rig and keep the money in my retirement account and bank. FYI I retired 10 years ago at the age of 54.

MO Fred 05-21-2022 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacwjames (Post 6188597)
Yup, and considering a RV of any type is a depreciating asset makes it even worse.
Yes, there are different classes of people. Some people can afford to buy a new rig and if you follow some of the threads on the top end coaches and look at signatures some owners trade every other year.



For me I'll keep my 20 year old rig and keep the money in my retirement account and bank. FYI I retired 10 years ago at the age of 54.

Ditto, my coach is 20 years old too with less than 100k miles and is probably just as reliable as any new coach on the road. They are out there, just need to seek and find.

Hpozzuoli 05-21-2022 06:48 AM

Most of the high end coaches you see are owned by full timers or the filthy rich. Let’s address the rich folks. They can afford anything they want and they do. The second group is the full timers. Think about it, if you sell your home it shouldn’t be that hard to afford a 700k coach, if you had a similarly valued home.

I think the big question for both the rich and full timers is, even though I have 700k do I spend on it an rv….some say yes and some say no.

dadej 05-21-2022 07:12 AM

Can you pay cash or do you have to finance? Stay away from financing a large depreciating asset.



Can you afford to loose $200k in three years? Not to mention sales tax and a yearly large insurance and tax bill.


Just food for thought.

Cumminsfan 05-21-2022 07:39 AM

Last thing I'd do is sell my house and use that money to buy a money pit RV to live in.
You'll never recoup that money and when the time comes, and it will, that you want to leave the FT life and settle down you don't have diddle to buy a permanent home with.

You need some serious coin to own a DP, let alone purchase a newer one. DP ownership's not for the faint of heart.

Kid Gloves 05-21-2022 08:16 AM

Keep in mind, those folks who buy new $650K+ coaches every few years still whine about fuel prices, maintenance and repair costs and tire prices, just like the rest of us. And they want free coffee.

Crasher 05-21-2022 08:17 AM

Many should be grateful for the "Filthy Rich" as someone stated. If not for them buying and trading their one, two or three year coaches, how could anyone with fewer assets afford a DP?? :rolleyes:

Country Road 05-21-2022 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith55 (Post 6188590)
WOW!:eek:

I have been looking to get a little newer DP and have been looking at pricing. I was hoping to get the "Big Block" with at least the 1250 pounds of torque.

Yes, I know there is a lot to these rigs but have to admit I got a little sticker shock to see $650,000 as a "not out of line" price for RV's in this arena.

Never seriously looked at new before.

Many parts of the country you can buy a couple acres of land and a heck of a home for $650,000!! Yes, I know that is peanuts in Cali.

I guess there is just a completely different income class than me that can afford $650,000 whether they are full timing or as a heavily used get away.

Not sure why I felt the need to post except sheer shock of that price!

Your last sentence was fun to read and sometimes itís just best to get our thoughts out there. If I was a priest, I would give you forgiveness for what others might think is a sin. Lol.

There are some awfully like new, nice coaches out there under $400k. Funny thing is, that the more you look at pricing, even $400k seems to be inline. We are experiencing very expensive times and for some of us, the clock is ticking. When I get ready to only sit on the back porch, Iíll know that I have given it my best shot.

1JetDoc 05-21-2022 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves (Post 6188727)
Keep in mind, those folks who buy new $650K+ coaches every few years still whine about fuel prices, maintenance and repair costs and tire prices, just like the rest of us. And they want free coffee.

I used to work on airplanes for a living... It was a running joke that the cheapest thing in aviation was the guy who owned the airplane. I guess the same goes for high-end RVs.

TomandGloria 05-21-2022 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1JetDoc (Post 6188740)
I used to work on airplanes for a living... It was a running joke that the cheapest thing in aviation was the guy who owned the airplane. I guess the same goes for high-end RVs.

Thatís a good one. Iím still laughing about that quote.
Thanks for sharing.

Kid Gloves 05-21-2022 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1JetDoc (Post 6188740)
I used to work on airplanes for a living... It was a running joke that the cheapest thing in aviation was the guy who owned the airplane. I guess the same goes for high-end RVs.

I worked in a different industry. One of our running jokes was that thereís never time to do it right, but thereís always time to do it twice.

Tha_Rooster 05-21-2022 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadej (Post 6188662)
Can you pay cash or do you have to finance? Stay away from financing a large depreciating asset.



Can you afford to loose $200k in three years? Not to mention sales tax and a yearly large insurance and tax bill.


Just food for thought.



Iíd like to know how many people pay cash for a 650,000 MH?

UTTransplant 05-21-2022 11:23 AM

One of the reasons MHs are priced so much more is the upscaling of the lower models. We bought ours new in 2018. Our price was ~190K, 28% off MSRP. Whad just about every option available, though we did go with just prewiring for satellite and solar, since Kevin knew he could install those himself. There were significant differences between our line (Tiffin RED) and the next one up (Phaeton). The Phaetons had a number of standard features not even available on REDs, plus lots of options also unavailable on our line. Now the REDs have many features standard that used to be available only on higher lines, and the option list is much more upscale. For example, in 2023 there will only be three models of REDs, and only the 33’ will have a single mid ship bath. Glad we bought ours when we did, because I wouldn’t have wanted a macerating toilet (too much water usage for dry camping), AquaHot, all-electric, etc. I know we don’t camp the way most people do since we spend about half of our time boondocking, but the newer versions of my rig just have too much “stuff” on them! All of the “stuff” adds to the price.

Flyer15015 05-21-2022 11:28 AM

I guess I just don't get it.
You pay 500K for a coach (somehow) and then you go from park to park and pay 60-80 dollars a nite to hook it up. That's 1800-2400 bucks a month, or 21K-29K per year.

If you were smart enough to accumulate that kind of $$$$, why would you spend it that way ?

I've got an 18 year old coach, in great shape that is more than enough for me and the puppy, and we seldom stay at a campground. We travel all over the southwest and never have any trouble finding a place to stay for our week long adventures.
But that's just me. Othere's may vary.

Mike in Colorado

GBB 05-21-2022 11:51 AM

Never did understand how someone could full time in a 8 x40 box staying in trailer parks (RV parks..same thing) every night. We did a little snowbirding in the past but were lucky to have a BIL that had a ranch we stayed on. Traveling back and forth we stayed in Rv parks and seen a lot of expensive DP in the parks cause they can’t fit anywhere else. More power to them if that what they like..just not our cup of tea. Give me open spaces and a home to come home to.

Kid Gloves 05-21-2022 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer15015 (Post 6188948)
I guess I just don't get it.
You pay 500K for a coach (somehow) and then you go from park to park and pay 60-80 dollars a nite to hook it up. That's 1800-2400 bucks a month, or 21K-29K per year.

If you were smart enough to accumulate that kind of $$$$, why would you spend it that way ?

I've got an 18 year old coach, in great shape that is more than enough for me and the puppy, and we seldom stay at a campground. We travel all over the southwest and never have any trouble finding a place to stay for our week long adventures.
But that's just me. Othere's may vary.

Mike in Colorado

For someone who has the resources to spend $500K+ for a coach, $20K for RV Resorts is almost insignificant. Besides, whatís not smart about enjoying the wealth?

Kid Gloves 05-21-2022 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBB (Post 6188963)
Never did understand how someone could full time in a 8 x40 box staying in trailer parks (RV parks..same thing) every night. We did a little snowbirding in the past but were lucky to have a BIL that had a ranch we stayed on. Traveling back and forth we stayed in Rv parks and seen a lot of expensive DP in the parks cause they canít fit anywhere else. More power to them if that what they like..just not our cup of tea. Give me open spaces and a home to come home to.

Why do so many folks assume that someone with a high end coach, doesnít have a also own a house or two?

jimcumminsw 05-21-2022 12:41 PM

I think the cost of an RV is relative to what one wants. Some want a new Marathon Provost motor-coach and our willing to spend the 1.5 million for it, others want a Forest River Berkshire motor-coach.

Those that backpack and carry everything in on their backs sleeping in 2 man pup tents might question all of us who buy a trailer or motor home, as why do we need this. It is all a matter of your point of view.

Who are we to question a persons needs and wants! If I want to spend my money and don’t need a hand out. Then I have a right to spend my money as I see fit. You do know you can’t take it with you when you die. So, you might as will enjoy it now!

Just my $0.02

twogypsies 05-21-2022 01:42 PM

Back in 1990's we lived in a lakefront 4 bedroom 3 bath home in Michigan which we had built for $60,000 cash with a large lot and sold it for $120,000.

We lived frugally and never bought anything on credit. We didn't take resort vacations. We used a tent. We both worked and saved our money. We grew up in frugal families. Our dads were meat cutters and no one in our families went to college. We worked and paid for college ourselves. We lived at home not in dorms. We made good, safe investments. We made a very small fraction of what the jobs would be nowadays. We were not rich! We were savers. We helped two children through college although they worked as much as they could. By then college prices had jumped high. We didn't want them having to repay loans. They lived at home.

We went full-time for 16 years. Our quality 1996 Travel Supreme 5th wheel was built to our specs for $40,000. We paid cash. After 8 yr. of full-timing with it we bought our quality Newmar Dutch Star in 2004 with over 100 specials added to it for $130,000. We paid cash. We used it 8 yr. then quit full-timing after 16 years. We have since bought a 1100 sq ft townhome for $105,000 which came completely furnished in 2013 down to linens and dishes. They are selling for $250,000+ now. We haven't replaced a piece of furniture or any other furnishings. We don't take vacations. We rarely eat out. We drive a 2012 Chevy Sonic - bought used.

I write this just to give you perspective of how things change over the years and how one can save.

KidGloves: We lived in a 'box' for 16 years because we wanted to see our country. We volunteered every year for a few months to give back to the places we enjoyed. In return, we got a free campsite. We boondocked on public lands 95% of our 16 years because those are the kinds of places we love. Therefore, full-timing was a very cheap way to live for us but we didn't 'go cheap' because we had to. We wanted to.

We met many life-long friends as we traveled who now live near us so we have an instant family of 40+ friends. We all help each other in various ways and enjoying visits and talking of the places we were all fortunate to see. We didn't stay in the same state that we left when taking off. Our kids have moved to various states, also, due to jobs. Our grandkids didn't miss out on our not being there daily. We spent quality time with them as they were growing up. We made it a point to attend their special events. We wrote letters at that time. We stood in phone booths in all kinds of weather to talk to them. They became so interested in what we were doing. They are now college grads or nearly and they are also frugal and love backpacking or tenting. One backpacked across eastern Europe and was one of the last ones to be able to enter North Korea. They are inquisitive as to how others live and the countrysides. They say they've learned a lot from experiencing our lifestyle. That's all they know of us because they weren't born when we took off. We loved being able to pass our love for the outdoors onto them and yes, they are very frugal with their money. With their mindsets I don't expect them to spend what they don't have.

Cumminsfan 05-21-2022 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer15015 (Post 6188948)
I guess I just don't get it.
You pay 500K for a coach (somehow) and then you go from park to park and pay 60-80 dollars a nite to hook it up. That's 1800-2400 bucks a month, or 21K-29K per year.

If you were smart enough to accumulate that kind of $$$$, why would you spend it that way ?

I've got an 18 year old coach, in great shape that is more than enough for me and the puppy, and we seldom stay at a campground. We travel all over the southwest and never have any trouble finding a place to stay for our week long adventures.
But that's just me. Othere's may vary.

Mike in Colorado

If I had enough money to buy a $650K MH I'd sure as heck stay at nicer RV parks. Why would you want to stay next to cousin Eddy if you didn't have to?

Thing is I don't have enough money to pay for yearly maintenance or diesel plus $$$ park fee's so I have to take my chance camping next to cousin Eddy.

BP120 05-21-2022 02:37 PM

Twogypsies: thanks for sharing your story. I must admit that since i joined this forum i have been intrigued by folks who have given up what is considered ďnormalĒ and lived your lifestyle.
You mentioned that you moved to an area with many friends. Iím curious- how did you decide where to go after spending so much time exploring the usa and was it a difficult transition?

Hope im not being too personal.

jacwjames 05-21-2022 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster (Post 6188913)
Iíd like to know how many people pay cash for a 650,000 MH?

Didn't buy a $650K motorhome but built our house with cash which is worth at least that much.



And you know what, 10 years from now my house will probably be worth +$800K (or more) and the motorhome will be worth substantially less.

twogypsies 05-21-2022 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BP120 (Post 6189137)
Twogypsies: thanks for sharing your story. I must admit that since i joined this forum i have been intrigued by folks who have given up what is considered “normal” and lived your lifestyle.
You mentioned that you moved to an area with many friends. I’m curious- how did you decide where to go after spending so much time exploring the usa and was it a difficult transition?

Hope im not being too personal.

We wintered in Arizona and fell in love with the Sonoran Desert and open spaces. Our last home was in Michigan.

Dutch Star Don 05-21-2022 03:31 PM

"You can't spend other people's money".......so don't worry what the other guy spends. Live within your MEANS without criticizing those who are living within their means. Why does this bother some so much????

Kid Gloves 05-21-2022 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twogypsies (Post 6189078)
Back in 1990's we lived in a lakefront 4 bedroom 3 bath home in Michigan which we had built for $60,000 cash with a large lot and sold it for $120,000.

KidGloves: We lived in a 'box' for 16 years because we wanted to see our country. We volunteered every year for a few months to give back to the places we enjoyed. In return, we got a free campsite. We boondocked on public lands 95% of our 16 years because those are the kinds of places we love. Therefore, full-timing was a very cheap way to live for us but we didn't 'go cheap' because we had to. We wanted to.

Thanks for the story. Iím not clear on why you directed the above response in my direction. It makes no difference to me if someone buys a $20K coach or a $2M coach, or if they live in it full time or just 2 weekends a year. Someone elseís life is not mine to live.

Country Road 05-21-2022 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don (Post 6189192)
"You can't spend other people's money".......so don't worry what the other guy spends. Live within your MEANS without criticizing those who are living within their means. Why does this bother some so much????

I have the same question along with most rational thinking people. If we could fix this thinking, perhaps we could avoid our cities being burned.

baraff 05-21-2022 04:52 PM

I suspect most of those expensive MH's are bought on credit. In a way, I get it. If you financed it at a low rate, why would you pay cash? You're losing money if you plop down $1M in cash, when that money could be invested and returning a healthy market return.
Of course, with the way things are now, who knows?

Hpozzuoli 05-21-2022 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crasher (Post 6188730)
Many should be grateful for the "Filthy Rich" as someone stated. If not for them buying and trading their one, two or three year coaches, how could anyone with fewer assets afford a DP?? :rolleyes:

Hey thatís what I doÖ.ssshhhh

saddlesore 05-21-2022 05:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by GBB (Post 6188963)
Never did understand how someone could full time in a 8 x40 box staying in trailer parks (RV parks..same thing) every night. Traveling back and forth we stayed in Rv parks and seen a lot of expensive DP in the parks cause they canít fit anywhere else. More power to them if that what they like..just not our cup of tea. Give me open spaces and a home to come home to.

When We were working [DW had a career in State Treasury, I Lived for 50+ years in a 6' x 8' box called the sleeper cab of an 18 wheeler. And got to go home to "Visit" our 2100 sqft 4 bedroom Home every so often.
As Others have stated.. We "Did Without" Many things that some would consider as "Essentials" in order to feed that "Retirement Pig"


We paid cash for Our Foretravel Coach 3 Years before retiring,, and

When We Did Retire, We Sold the Home, And everything that wasn't bolted down..Then invested All the Proceeds long term for when We must "Hang Up The Spurs" and once again remain in one location..


As for "Living in a box".. Our "Forever RV" when compared to a truck sleeper is the TAJ !!!!


Full Timers ARE NOT "Camping"... We ARE LIVING Our Dreams..



Yes , You will see those "High Dollar" McMansions parked in the "Upper Crust" RV parks or You May also see those same MCMansions boondocking out in the Puckerbrush as well...


They are "Staying Put" until they See & Experience everything in the area or they get bored.. Then move on to somewhere else that is interesting to them..


We have the rest of our lives to see whatever We see.. So there is no "Rush" to do everything [or Anything] on a timeline..
And I have Yet to see a Brinks Armored Truck following the Hearse..

Theturboman 05-21-2022 06:55 PM

Me personally I am happy the 1%'s have done well. I thought I would be one just ran out of time lol. I bought a used 2003 Monaco Sig 45ft for $400k in 2005 and sold it 12 years later for $125k after making payments of $2200 for 10 years (lesson learned) My neighbor bought a new 64ft Hampton yacht for $2.5m at 73 and paid cash because he could. I am not that guy but happy he could. I will stick with my used junk :) and be happy for others as I sell engines for $70k and need someone to buy them

Ray,IN 05-21-2022 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster (Post 6188913)
Iíd like to know how many people pay cash for a 650,000 MH?

I was watching a video several years ago of a couple who ordered a new Newell and paid cash. Those are near $2 million dollars.:anyone:

twogypsies 05-21-2022 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves (Post 6189234)
Thanks for the story. I’m not clear on why you directed the above response in my direction. It makes no difference to me if someone buys a $20K coach or a $2M coach, or if they live in it full time or just 2 weekends a year. Someone else’s life is not mine to live.

I am so very sorry. It should have been directed to GBB's post. I apologize. I can't change it now.

saddlesore 05-21-2022 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twogypsies (Post 6189513)
I am so very sorry. It should have been directed to GBB's post. I apologize. I can't change it now.

I nearly did the same thing.. but did catch it at the last minute..

Kid Gloves 05-22-2022 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twogypsies (Post 6189513)
I am so very sorry. It should have been directed to GBB's post. I apologize. I can't change it now.

No problem. Thanks for the reply.

Keith55 05-22-2022 10:43 AM

OP here - To be clear, I wasn't passing any sort of judgment on how people spend their money!

I was just sticker shocked! I am happy for the people that can afford those Moho's and although I haven't done that well, I have no ill will toward them whatsoever.

Just sticker shock here!

Kid Gloves 05-22-2022 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Road (Post 6189246)
I have the same question along with most rational thinking people. If we could fix this thinking, perhaps we could avoid our cities being burned.

Good luck.

The prevailing mindset, here and elsewhere, seems to be ďI canít understand how anyone could do things differently from the way I do thingsĒ.

n2zon 05-22-2022 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twogypsies (Post 6189078)
Back in 1990's we lived in a lakefront 4 bedroom 3 bath home in Michigan which we had built for $60,000 cash with a large lot and sold it for $120,000.

We lived frugally and never bought anything on credit. We didn't take resort vacations. We used a tent. We both worked and saved our money. We grew up in frugal families. Our dads were meat cutters and no one in our families went to college. We worked and paid for college ourselves. We lived at home not in dorms. We made good, safe investments. We made a very small fraction of what the jobs would be nowadays. We were not rich! We were savers. We helped two children through college although they worked as much as they could. By then college prices had jumped high. We didn't want them having to repay loans. They lived at home.

We went full-time for 16 years. Our quality 1996 Travel Supreme 5th wheel was built to our specs for $40,000. We paid cash. After 8 yr. of full-timing with it we bought our quality Newmar Dutch Star in 2004 with over 100 specials added to it for $130,000. We paid cash. We used it 8 yr. then quit full-timing after 16 years. We have since bought a 1100 sq ft townhome for $105,000 which came completely furnished in 2013 down to linens and dishes. They are selling for $250,000+ now. We haven't replaced a piece of furniture or any other furnishings. We don't take vacations. We rarely eat out. We drive a 2012 Chevy Sonic - bought used.

I write this just to give you perspective of how things change over the years and how one can save.

KidGloves: We lived in a 'box' for 16 years because we wanted to see our country. We volunteered every year for a few months to give back to the places we enjoyed. In return, we got a free campsite. We boondocked on public lands 95% of our 16 years because those are the kinds of places we love. Therefore, full-timing was a very cheap way to live for us but we didn't 'go cheap' because we had to. We wanted to.

We met many life-long friends as we traveled who now live near us so we have an instant family of 40+ friends. We all help each other in various ways and enjoying visits and talking of the places we were all fortunate to see. We didn't stay in the same state that we left when taking off. Our kids have moved to various states, also, due to jobs. Our grandkids didn't miss out on our not being there daily. We spent quality time with them as they were growing up. We made it a point to attend their special events. We wrote letters at that time. We stood in phone booths in all kinds of weather to talk to them. They became so interested in what we were doing. They are now college grads or nearly and they are also frugal and love backpacking or tenting. One backpacked across eastern Europe and was one of the last ones to be able to enter North Korea. They are inquisitive as to how others live and the countrysides. They say they've learned a lot from experiencing our lifestyle. That's all they know of us because they weren't born when we took off. We loved being able to pass our love for the outdoors onto them and yes, they are very frugal with their money. With their mindsets I don't expect them to spend what they don't have.

This, right here ^^^^ is why the new implementation for irv2 needs a "like" button.

Ray,IN 05-23-2022 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n2zon (Post 6190446)
This, right here ^^^^ is why the new implementation for irv2 needs a "like" button.

There is one, so to speak. It's in bottom RH corner of every post/reply.
THANKS

n2zon 05-23-2022 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 6190576)
There is one, so to speak. It's in bottom RH corner of every post/reply.
THANKS

As we've discussed elsewhere, the Thanks function is pretty clunky. I remain hopeful that the upcoming forum software update will implement an actual "like" button.

Ray,IN 05-23-2022 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n2zon (Post 6190601)
As we've discussed elsewhere, the Thanks function is pretty clunky. I remain hopeful that the upcoming forum software update will implement an actual "like" button.


I get it; rvforum.net has one, it also has icons for dislike and Pheww. So if the website owner decides to add a like button I would like it to have those additions too.

Kid Gloves 05-23-2022 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n2zon (Post 6190601)
As we've discussed elsewhere, the Thanks function is pretty clunky. I remain hopeful that the upcoming forum software update will implement an actual "like" button.

I prefer the “Thanks”. It’s private and can include a few personal words. You know, actual communication between two humans. Works great for those who are just trying to help others and don’t need a gold star for the effort.

Off topic a bit. Sorry.

RV_Lee 05-24-2022 12:09 AM

I am pretty sure the phrase "you can't take it with you" plays a large part. If you're in your 60's and sitting on a few million, why not? I would. It wouldn't be a 40-45' behemoth though, probably 35' max and ideally 30-32' so I can have some privacy and not neighbors on both sides.

Tha_Rooster 05-24-2022 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 6189449)
I was watching a video several years ago of a couple who ordered a new Newell and paid cash. Those are near $2 million dollars.:anyone:



Sure some people can pay cash but we are talking about your average people who live pay check to pay check. Iím sure if you go to your local Rv sales place and ask how many people pay cash they would laugh.

Tha_Rooster 05-24-2022 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacwjames (Post 6189161)
Didn't buy a $650K motorhome but built our house with cash which is worth at least that much.



And you know what, 10 years from now my house will probably be worth +$800K (or more) and the motorhome will be worth substantially less.



I sure hope so but I think we are going to have another housing collapse. Housing has gone threw the roof and peoples income not keeping up.

Cumminsfan 05-24-2022 08:44 AM

One thing for certain, my house will be worth more than it is now in 10 years. In the 32 years that I've owned it, it has never dropped below the price I paid for it. In fact it's gone up in value by over $340K.

Another thing for certain is after 10 years almost every RV will be worth less than half of what you paid for it.

IndyJim 05-24-2022 09:00 AM

If I understand this thread correctly:
1) Some people have more discretionary income than others.
2) Most people have differing opinions on how they spend their money.
3) Death and taxes are a certainty.

-IndyJim

Kid Gloves 05-24-2022 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan (Post 6191880)
One thing for certain, my house will be worth more than it is now in 10 years. In the 32 years that I've owned it, it has never dropped below the price I paid for it. In fact it's gone up in value by over $340K.

Another thing for certain is after 10 years almost every RV will be worth less than half of what you paid for it.

Nothing is certain except death and taxes. We could probably get today, what we paid for our coach nearly 6 years ago. That could change and it certainly isn’t why we bought the coach. For many an RV is an extravagance. It’s something you buy for fun, when you’re not concerned about putting the kids through college, making a mortgage payment or putting food on the table. It’s something to be paid for with discretionary income, a surplus of savings or some other source of mad money. For some that might be $25K, for others it could be $1.5M. Who cares?

Increased home values is largely irrelevant to the topic. Since it invariably pops up in every conversation about buying an RV, let’s take a moment to think about what happens when our home doubles in value. Every other home in the area doubles in value as well. So, while it might be comforting to say something such as “ My home went from $400K to $800K in the past 10 years”, we need to realize that it will now cost $800K to buy the same or similar home in the same area. Sure, we can pocket some cash and look like a genius if we downsize or relocate to a market with lower housing costs.

As for the “you can’t take it with you” logic. There is a certain amount of risk involved unless you happen to know your exact date of death and manage to leave just enough money for someone to shovel a pile of dirt on a pine box.

On edit: I see IndyJim beat me to the punch.

jimcumminsw 05-24-2022 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves (Post 6191932)
As for the ďyou canít take it with youĒ logic. There is a certain amount of risk involved unless you happen to know your exact date of death and manage to leave just enough money for someone to shovel a pile of dirt on a pine box.

I worked with an engineer who put together an EXCEL spread sheet for retirement. Using the insurance actuarial tables plus his pension and SS benefits, he planned out to spend all of his savings by 85 years of age. He missed this by one year and passed away at 84.

He planned on letting the state take care of him after he turned 85. He said by than he let the state support him, instead of him supporting the state.

If you spend all of your savings than the state can't take your money to support you. For long term health care.

Kid Gloves 05-24-2022 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcumminsw (Post 6192006)
I worked with an engineer who put together an EXCEL spread sheet for retirement. Using the insurance actuarial tables plus his pension and SS benefits, he planned out to spend all of his savings by 85 years of age. He missed this by one year and passed away at 84.

He planned on letting the state take care of him after he turned 85. He said by than he let the state support him, instead of him supporting the state.

If you spend all of your savings than the state can't take your money to support you. For long term health care.

When it comes to financials, Iíll take a fiduciary with a spreadsheet over an engineer with a spreadsheet every time.

Thatís a wonderful story. My goal is to not go out as a ward of the state. Iíve seen that plan in action. Having my own funds will allow me to choose how my care is provided. Thatís more important to me than getting back at the state and having someone else determine how Iím cared for.

Ray,IN 05-24-2022 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster (Post 6191701)
Sure some people can pay cash but we are talking about your average people who live pay check to pay check. Iím sure if you go to your local Rv sales place and ask how many people pay cash they would laugh.


Therein lies the problem, living above ones means. Thirty year's ago only the (what I consider) rich drove DP MH's, now some folks are driving a new DP MH that cost more than their house and land is worth.

Kid Gloves 05-25-2022 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN (Post 6192771)
Therein lies the problem, living above ones means. Thirty year's ago only the (what I consider) rich drove DP MH's, now some folks are driving a new DP MH that cost more than their house and land is worth.

Some folks are driving coaches and have no house or land at all. While there are certainly a number of folks who live above their pay grade, how many people do you actually know who donít have the income and/or assets to swing a loan for a $650K+ coach?

Thereís a clear misconception here if anyone thinks the average stiff is going out and buying a half million dollar coach.

Cumminsfan 05-25-2022 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves (Post 6191932)
Nothing is certain except death and taxes. We could probably get today, what we paid for our coach nearly 6 years ago. That could change and it certainly isnít why we bought the coach. For many an RV is an extravagance. Itís something you buy for fun, when youíre not concerned about putting the kids through college, making a mortgage payment or putting food on the table. Itís something to be paid for with discretionary income, a surplus of savings or some other source of mad money. For some that might be $25K, for others it could be $1.5M. Who cares?

Increased home values is largely irrelevant to the topic. Since it invariably pops up in every conversation about buying an RV, letís take a moment to think about what happens when our home doubles in value. Every other home in the area doubles in value as well. So, while it might be comforting to say something such as ď My home went from $400K to $800K in the past 10 yearsĒ, we need to realize that it will now cost $800K to buy the same or similar home in the same area. Sure, we can pocket some cash and look like a genius if we downsize or relocate to a market with lower housing costs.

As for the ďyou canít take it with youĒ logic. There is a certain amount of risk involved unless you happen to know your exact date of death and manage to leave just enough money for someone to shovel a pile of dirt on a pine box.

On edit: I see IndyJim beat me to the punch.

Check back in 4 years and let us know how much your RV is worth.

Kid Gloves 05-25-2022 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan (Post 6193129)
Check back in 4 years and let us know how much your RV is worth.

In our case, it is of absolutely no concern what value anyone puts on the coach, now or at some point in the future. It was paid for with mad money and it will have no impact on our financial situation if we sell it for $5.00 when weíre done enjoying it. We didnít buy it because of what we though it might be worth some day.

wnytaxman 05-25-2022 10:25 AM

The sticker shock is felt pretty much throughout the RV industry. There are a lot of factors involved from the additions made to what used to entry level coaches to the flood of electronics that seem to be on every motorhome out there. Adding to the change in pricing you have the consolidation of the industry with just a few companies owning all of the manufacturers and the consolidations of the small dealers into mega dealers and then couple those factors with a huge increase in demand.

I can give you a pretty good example of the extent of sticker shock. We bought our coach new in ‘18. It listed for $440,000. Our discount was about 38% which was a good number then but not out of reason. Today that same coach, a ‘23 model, is listed for $622,000 and you would have to work to get 25% off the MSRP. Bottom line is that the out the door price on that coach has jumped by almost $200,000 in five years which, by the way, doesn’t count the additional sales tax on that increase.

For those that say the RV asset is a rapidly depreciating asset, be aware that is not necessarily so in today’s market. We sold ours for close to what we paid for it new five model years ago. We certainly didn’t rip off the buyers but got what was fair value considering the cost of a new coach. You might be surprised what your used RV is worth in today’s market. Now how much longer that market will last is another issue with $6 diesel and 5% and more interest on a purchase. My guess is that the shelf life of the RV boom is rapidly approaching its end.

For those who are banking on their homes continuing to increase in value. You may want to hark back to Florida in 2007 and 2008. There are a lot of half million dollar homes that suddenly were worth less than half when it came time to sell. Whether it be sticks and bricks or motorhomes and RV’s, both markets are fluid and subject to changes quickly by outside factors.

Kid Gloves 05-25-2022 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnytaxman (Post 6193226)
The sticker shock is felt pretty much throughout the RV industry. There are a lot of factors involved from the additions made to what used to entry level coaches to the flood of electronics that seem to be on every motorhome out there. Adding to the change in pricing you have the consolidation of the industry with just a few companies owning all of the manufacturers and the consolidations of the small dealers into mega dealers and then couple those factors with a huge increase in demand.

I can give you a pretty good example of the extent of sticker shock. We bought our coach new in Ď18. It listed for $440,000. Our discount was about 38% which was a good number then but not out of reason. Today that same coach, a Ď23 model, is listed for $622,000 and you would have to work to get 25% off the MSRP. Bottom line is that the out the door price on that coach has jumped by almost $200,000 in five years which, by the way, doesnít count the additional sales tax on that increase.

For those that say the RV asset is a rapidly depreciating asset, be aware that is not necessarily so in todayís market. We sold ours for close to what we paid for it new five model years ago. We certainly didnít rip off the buyers but got what was fair value considering the cost of a new coach. You might be surprised what your used RV is worth in todayís market. Now how much longer that market will last is another issue with $6 diesel and 5% and more interest on a purchase. My guess is that the shelf life of the RV boom is rapidly approaching its end.

For those who are banking on their homes continuing to increase in value. You may want to hark back to Florida in 2007 and 2008. There are a lot of half million dollar homes that suddenly were worth less than half when it came time to sell. Whether it be sticks and bricks or motorhomes and RVís, both markets are fluid and subject to changes quickly by outside factors.

Good info. Of course, home prices fell significantly in other states as well.

Whatís interesting about your story of selling the coach, 5 years later, for the same price you paid, is that you could not buy, what you refer to as the ďsame coach, a Ď23 modelĒ with those proceeds. Obviously, a Ď23 is not truly the same as an Ď18.5. Surely there are even more gadgets that donít work properly on a Ď23 than there were on your 5 year old coach.

What you had was a 5 year old coach that carried a price that would have allowed you to buy a similar 5 year old coach. Itís like for like. You could say that you enjoyed the coach for all those years and got your money back when it was sold. Less any loan interest and sales tax. However, if you want to stay in the game, itíll cost an additional $200K to jump in a new rig. So, while that coach maintained itís original price, did it lose value?

wnytaxman 05-25-2022 04:18 PM

Kid Gloves, you bring up a very good point. And maybe this is the crux of the entire discussion. That is value as opposed to price. Did we get our value out of our Aspire? Absolutely. Fabulous memories and great times which carry huge value. When one considers value, then perhaps price becomes less of concern. As others have said, if someone can afford coach A then go for it. If not, the go for what will give you the value at a price that is reasonable.

Kid Gloves 05-25-2022 05:33 PM

Actually, I was referring to the value of a tangible item, a motorhome, to be precise.

Nearly everyone will put a value of ďpricelessĒ on the ďexperienceĒ. If thatís the case then thereís no point in discussing whether or not these things are worth the price of admission. Just drop every last dime on one and enjoy the journey. It will be worth it after all.

In reality, we all want priceless on a budget.

bentjm 05-25-2022 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves (Post 6193180)
In our case, it is of absolutely no concern what value anyone puts on the coach, now or at some point in the future. It was paid for with mad money and it will have no impact on our financial situation if we sell it for $5.00 when weíre done enjoying it. We didnít buy it because of what we though it might be worth some day.

I am with you here.

We bought in 2019 with the idea that if we gave it away in 6 years, it would be OK.

The current economic uncertainty has not changed that perspective.

diesel odor 05-26-2022 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith55 (Post 6188590)
WOW!:eek:

I have been looking to get a little newer DP and have been looking at pricing. I was hoping to get the "Big Block" with at least the 1250 pounds of torque.

Yes, I know there is a lot to these rigs but have to admit I got a little sticker shock to see $650,000 as a "not out of line" price for RV's in this arena.

Never seriously looked at new before.

Many parts of the country you can buy a couple acres of land and a heck of a home for $650,000!! Yes, I know that is peanuts in Cali.

I guess there is just a completely different income class than me that can afford $650,000 whether they are full timing or as a heavily used get away.


Not sure why I felt the need to post except sheer shock of that price!

According to your signature you already own the big block 8.9 liter Cummins. You might not have the 450HP and 1250 Ft Ft Lbs torque but your 2007 Newmar Kountry Star has it, probably 350 Hp and 1050 Torque. I would be happy with that engine especially if it came with the rare engine brake not the exhaust brake. I consider any diesel with the Allison 4000MH transmission as a big block. My Monaco has an 8.3 with an Allison 3000MH and I believe all 8.9 have the 3000MH tranny also, even if they cost 650K.

cruizerEd 05-26-2022 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith55 (Post 6188590)
WOW!:eek:
...

That's what I say about the price of a Newmar Kountry Star ;-)

TomH.ace 05-26-2022 03:52 PM

That's just crazy for most Americans.

I was "gifted" a 2004 33' gas Damon Class A with 15k miles. Minor damage from neglect. A year long project and $15k in materials and parts later, we have a freshly remodeled, updated rig that we love. I did almost everything myself as I'm very handy.
New List includes: roof and everything on it, 2 a/c's, awnings, rebuilt leveling jacks, LED lighting everywhere, commercial wallpaper, backsplash, built in electric fireplace, carpet in cockpit and lvp throughout the rest, new windshield (ouch!), faucets, water heater, ceramic toilet, mattress, double recliner, custom dining booth, 32" flatscreen in custom overhead cabinets, tpms, front & rear recording cam, and probably a bunch I'm forgetting. Lol
Before I get yelled, yes I did all the mechanical stuff too. Changed / flush fluids, replaced brake lines, calipers pads, turned rotors, new tires, tune up, etc
The point to my rambling, if you are able and determined, you don't have to be rich to have fun.
We've done 3 short distance trips (1500 miles total) and love it. Wife calls it her tiny house. 😇
Happy wife happy life.

Good luck in your search and I hope you find what you want!

patncris 05-26-2022 04:06 PM

New Versus Used
 
Unless you have more money than sense, heed the advice of previous posters!
Get out of the "I want new!" mindset...
In fact, consider a beautifully maintained pre-2010 coach from a manufacturer you trust. For us, that'll always be Tiffin. Why pre-2010? DEF, baby!
I read more gripes about DEF Injection System problems with DP's than anything.
We were lucky that a 2010 Allegro Bus at a way low price was presented to us, and it has been a gem...this beast hums down the road! (Knock on wood, right?)
But as a wise gent once counselled us: "You buy a million dollar coach, you buy a million dollars worth of problems; you buy a hundred thousand dollar coach..."
It was good advice, and we aren't sorry we followed it.
Be patient. Something will present itself that you absolutely love at a price you can live with...

Steve 716 05-26-2022 04:45 PM

It's just the way it is
 
As others have said, it's just the way it is for both old and new RVs. I kind of hope it stays this way for awhile because once I find a house I plan to sell my coach. There is nothing wrong with it and I keep my coach in excellent condition. For various reasons we just don't want to travel anymore.

kendall69 05-26-2022 04:53 PM

Better ways to spend 650K
 
I understand the argument for RVing and being able to "camp" in placed that have to hotel rooms, BUT, for 650K you could take many luxury cruises all over the world. Stay in the finest resort in exotic places, have room service every night, a beach cottage for a moth or two.



For 650K you could have, in my opinion a far great time that spending it on an RV. NO RV is worth that kind of money when you think of how alternatively you could spend that money.


Heck you could purchase nice cabin in the woods somewhere and camp every day on your own property sitting in front of your own river.

PeterFTH 05-26-2022 05:00 PM

If you find yourself envious consider the amount of warranty issues with new coaches. DEF issues - including one Cornerstone owner who was benched for 9 months waiting for a part. Is it really necessary, or even a good idea, to have a touch screen in your RV controlling everything ... I mean, how often do these systems fail? Heck (expletive deleted) you can pay 2,000,000 for some top end luxury RVs. I'm into my 2002 Travel Supreme 40DS maybe one and a quarter after 8 years ... plenty of headroom should something go wrong. Like the leveling valve I had replaced yesterday by a mobile truck service that ran over $900. It's all a matter of where the decimal point lands - you can have plenty of fun travel without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get into the game.

Mvkingfish 05-26-2022 05:16 PM

An unastute observation

Kid Gloves 05-26-2022 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendall69 (Post 6194757)
I understand the argument for RVing and being able to "camp" in placed that have to hotel rooms, BUT, for 650K you could take many luxury cruises all over the world. Stay in the finest resort in exotic places, have room service every night, a beach cottage for a moth or two.



For 650K you could have, in my opinion a far great time that spending it on an RV. NO RV is worth that kind of money when you think of how alternatively you could spend that money.


Heck you could purchase nice cabin in the woods somewhere and camp every day on your own property sitting in front of your own river.

For many, $650K, or $1.5M is just part of the budget. Itís a toy. They likely have a second or third home and also take expensive vacations.

FredV 05-26-2022 07:19 PM

There are very high end 20 to 30 year old coaches out there that the interiors are still in excellent condition. Some I have seen have been stored indoors with exteriors that look like new. Most are priced between 80K and 250K. You can do a lot of updates including repowering for 400K to 570K.

suisunsam 05-26-2022 07:25 PM

Itís never a good idea to buy new unless you can afford a Newell-Newmar-marathon- and any coach over $700,000- you lose half the value when you drive it off the lot -weíre on our second coach - first was a gas holiday rambler - put 60,000 miles on it and sold it for what we bought it for - second coach is a DP country coach - have put 92,000 miles on it - bought it for a third of what original owner paid - it was 8 years old with 7000 miles - now 97,000 - and still going strong - word of mouth and rvtrader by owner sales is the way to go- dealers with used coaches escalate the cost 15 to 20 per cent - Motorhome is the only way to travel -

oberuwe 05-27-2022 05:55 AM

We are at our 6th rig, owned 2 brand new Newmar's, even a Newell, and can afford a brand new coach, but WHY as a few of you stated correctly after you drive off the dealer lot you loose a good third (or more) of the value the very same day you take it home, we did look for about 2 years for a new one, but most mainstream rigs look like a 5th. wheel camper on the inside, I don't care for that laminated wood at all, back in the days the Monacos, Beavers, and Country coaches are way more beautiful with the "real" wood and craftsmanship than today's rigs (I know everybody has his or her taste diffrences) we are now on our second Signature which has the same fancy stuff as high-end coaches for around $200K with a huge engine you can tow just about anything, we love it and rather spend the money on a nice house which actually appreciates, unlike a motor home!

dbteam 05-27-2022 07:06 AM

Sticker Shock
 
We're on our second Dutch Star knowing full well that it will depreciate faster than a lead weight thrown into a pond. Then Covid hit and for right now, many RV owners are thinking "Wow, I could make money selling this right now" For new shoppers, my .02 is to be patient (if you can). This bubble is going to pop, used inventories of late models coaches will swell and prices will plummet. Just can't say in the crystal ball when that will be.

As for the cost of owning a DP. We were into boats for years and our DP is MUCH less expensive to operate and maintain. We look at our life as a finite time with our more active years right now. I'll take 7mpg any day at Truck Stop Diesel over 30 gallons per hour at Marina fuel rates.

Hope our kids are not on IRV2 because pssst - we're spending your inheritance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WayneInFL 05-27-2022 02:40 PM

Called "SKIING"
 
Spending Kids Inheritance!!!! :angel:



Hope our kids are not on IRV2 because pssst - we're spending your inheritance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

tropical36 05-27-2022 08:06 PM

Depreciation is terrible for a new RV buyer, but great for the used market and for those of us who like find ing a quality coach at reasonable price that we can afford. We've had ours for 6 years now and the asking prices now are for about what we paid then.

Giapk 05-28-2022 07:23 AM

Iíve looked at Dutch Stars in the campgrounds. Those are beautiful coaches.

saddlesore 05-28-2022 09:50 PM

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Our 20 year old Foretravel is just now getting broke in..Many more years of use to follow..


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