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RandomDV8 05-22-2022 05:11 PM

AC Outlets on Inverter (2018 Phaeton IH)
 
We are negotiating the purchase of a 2018 Phaeton 40IH. One of the things we don't like about our Georgetown is that there are no AC outlets that work while we are on batteries. It is my understanding that there are AC outlets powered by the inverter on the 40IH. Can anyone confirm this and tell me where these outlets are, if there are any?

Tiffin newbie owner to be ;)

mkassab 05-22-2022 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomDV8 (Post 6190282)
We are negotiating the purchase of a 2018 Phaeton 40IH. One of the things we don't like about our Georgetown is that there are no AC outlets that work while we are on batteries. It is my understanding that there are AC outlets powered by the inverter on the 40IH. Can anyone confirm this and tell me where these outlets are, if there are any?

Tiffin newbie owner to be ;)

We have a 2021 Phaeton 40IH. If the inverter is on, we could run one AC unit off our 2000watt inverter. If I changed to a 3000 watt inverter, we could run two. You also have to be mindful to what else is drawing off the inverter, e.g., refrig, microwave, etc.

Mark

George Weiss 05-22-2022 05:31 PM

AC
 
Letís clarify AC! Is AC air conditioning or A/C alternating current. If you are asking about air conditioning, your batteries will likely give you 15 minutes of cool air. If you want A/C electricity for TV, microwave, one pot of electric coffee, or similar, think about your inverter size and batteries. We have 2000 watt inverter and four 6 volt golf cart batteries. We run one CPAP overnight and watch a little TV and charge phones and laptops with no problems. We make pour over coffee from pot on propane stove rather than an electric Mr Coffee.

SamKVA 05-22-2022 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkassab (Post 6190291)
We have a 2021 Phaeton 40IH. If the inverter is on, we could run one AC unit off our 2000watt inverter. If I changed to a 3000 watt inverter, we could run two. You also have to be mindful to what else is drawing off the inverter, e.g., refrig, microwave, etc.

Mark

When you say "could" vs. "can" run one AC unit, I assume you have not yet tried to do so. I can't do that with my 2021 40IH as none of the AC/Heat Pump units are wired along the inverter path. However, almost, if not all of the Alternating Current (120 Volt) convenience outlets on the interior of the coach are on the inverter path. Only interior devices I've noticed that don't work while disconnected from shore/generator power are the vacuum cleaner (I suspect because its power comes from the basement) and induction stovetop (as expected).

Our 40IH is a fully electric coach and if yours isn't, that may explain the difference but I can't imagine even 6 batteries providing enough power for much AC run time.

Sam

TiffinUser 05-22-2022 07:30 PM

I don't have a Phaeton but I would think most Tiffin models are wired roughly the same manner. I presume by ac outlet you are talking about 120v ac. Find the circuit breaker panel and look at the breakers.

On the left are the 2 main breakers, probably 50A. On my panel, it is divided into 2 sections, the left is stuff that works on shore power and the right is stuff that works on the inverter.

The inverter section has a "inverter in" breaker and all to the right of that is on the inverter line. On my rig it includes microwave, fridge, GFI (these are the 120v inside outlets), and normal receptacles. The shore power section includes items like AirCon, Washing Machine, fireplace, water heater, engine heater and are to the left side of the "inverter in" breaker. Not saying that is how the 40IH is set up but hopefully this gives a general idea.

It took me a long time to wrap my head around how it all works. There is a lot of stuff in the forum that helps. There are a number of GFI circuits, they are on circuits around where you find water. IE: bathrooms, kitchen. I often see posts by folks who cannot figure out why they don't have power and some outlet. Quite often the solution is that a GFI has tripped.

Are the batteries original? I would think a 2018 battery may be about ready for replacement. There is also a reset on the inverter. Sometimes it pops and in that case the outlets won't work on battery power.

wog099 05-22-2022 09:40 PM

TiffinUser has given the OP a fairly good answer to his question, which regards receptacles that are active through the inverter. Neither TiffinUser nor myself have a Phaeton, which is what the OP is asking about. I do have a 2018 Tiffin, but the Open Road model, and it has six electrical outlets on the inverter (my inverter is only 1,200 watts).
The six outlets are refrigerator, televisions and entertainment equipment, outlet in front of the passenger seat near the floor, outlet under the kitchen sink that also serves the outdoor tv, outlets under the tv in the living room and an outlet in the bedroom.
OP, you probably have more inverter outlets than I do. After you purchase it you should be able to unplug from shore power and generator so you are just using battery power and go around testing all outlets with a volt meter, lamp or some electrical device.
Hope you enjoy your Phaeton,

RVingnuts 05-23-2022 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomDV8 (Post 6190282)
We are negotiating the purchase of a 2018 Phaeton 40IH. One of the things we don't like about our Georgetown is that there are no AC outlets that work while we are on batteries. It is my understanding that there are AC outlets powered by the inverter on the 40IH. Can anyone confirm this and tell me where these outlets are, if there are any?

Tiffin newbie owner to be ;)

We do have a 2022 Phaeton 40IH. Inverter will power all AC outlets, your refrigerator and Microwave. We do not run heavy loads (coffeemaker, toaster, waffle maker, 1,000Watts and above) devices on inverter as it will discharge your batteries very fast. Even the microwave will be somewhat weak. We can run TVs, Satellite, charge phones/iPads without any problem. The inverter WILL NOT power the air conditioning/heat pump or electric floor. We have propane stove, heater and water heater.

Hpozzuoli 05-23-2022 10:47 AM

You will get from the factory 4 or 5 plugs that will run off the inverter. A tv should be plugged into one of the plugs so you can use it without the gen. The other plugs should be marked with a sticker that says inverter so you know they can be used.

chugchug 05-23-2022 06:22 PM

2021 Tiffin 32SA, w/ the upgraded inverter + 4 batteries (due to the residential fridge). When I turn on the house main and the inverter main, then all of the AC, USB and DC outlets (like cig lighter / radio /etc) are all functional.

I have not tried to run the air conditioner off of the inverter... not sure I want to even try... low voltage tends to cause issues with the capacitors in the air conditioner units.

RVingnuts 05-23-2022 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chugchug (Post 6191393)
2021 Tiffin 32SA, w/ the upgraded inverter + 4 batteries (due to the residential fridge). When I turn on the house main and the inverter main, then all of the AC, USB and DC outlets (like cig lighter / radio /etc) are all functional.

I have not tried to run the air conditioner off of the inverter... not sure I want to even try... low voltage tends to cause issues with the capacitors in the air conditioner units.

Air Conditioners are not enabled on Inverter Mode. They will only be "AVAILABLE" on the EMS (Energy Management System) when connected to a campground Post or with Generator working. 50Amps will allow you to run 2 or 3 A/Cs. 30 Amps will normally allow you only 1 big one. Have not tried on 20 amps yet.

dssl 05-23-2022 07:26 PM

There are some confusing replies. For gas models if all of the 120v plugs are powered from the inverter is dependent on if the coach has an inverter upgrade, this is not relevant to the OPs question since he is asking about a 40IH.

For a 40IH , and all rescent Tiffin diesel coaches they come with Magnum pure sine wave inverter. The inverter powers the microwave, the residential refrigerator, all of the 120v outlets and all of the entertainment equipment.

No Tiffin that I am aware of comes set up from the factory to run any of the air conditioners off of the inverter. Your coach likely has a 2000 watt inverter which isn't quite up to the task of running an air conditioner. If you want to run your air conditioner off of batteries you probably need to upgrade to a 3000 watt inverter and add a descent sized lithium battery bank.

RV Driver 05-23-2022 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chugchug (Post 6191393)
ÖI have not tried to run the air conditioner off of the inverter... not sure I want to even try...

You can try, but they will not work no matter what you do. The air conditioners will only run from shore power or the generator. The current draw is WAY to high to run from batteries powering the inverter.

A 15,000 btu air conditioner will draw about 17 amps at 120 volts. Convert that to the current draw at 12 volts and you are talking about 200+ amps! Your batteries could supply that amount of power for about 15 minutes.

dssl 05-24-2022 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV Driver (Post 6191470)
You can try, but they will not work no matter what you do. The air conditioners will only run from shore power or the generator. The current draw is WAY to high to run from batteries powering the inverter.

A 15,000 btu air conditioner will draw about 17 amps at 120 volts. Convert that to the current draw at 12 volts and you are talking about 200+ amps! Your batteries could supply that amount of power for about 15 minutes.

With the factory setup this is mostly true.

I have mine setup with a 3k Victron MultiplusII where all of the power goes through the inverter. I also have 824ah of LIFEPO4 batteries. My 15000btu unit draws more like 150 amps at 12v, subtract the alternator charging and solar and it can run for a good chunk of the day off of the batteries. If needed I can start the generator and recharge the batteries while still running the air conditioner.

Persistent 05-24-2022 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomDV8 (Post 6190282)
We are negotiating the purchase of a 2018 Phaeton 40IH. One of the things we don't like about our Georgetown is that there are no AC outlets that work while we are on batteries. It is my understanding that there are AC outlets powered by the inverter on the 40IH. Can anyone confirm this and tell me where these outlets are, if there are any?

Tiffin newbie owner to be ;)

As you can see from above posts, different models and options have different configurations. Even the same models delivered at different times can be different.

Go over these questions with the salesmen before signing anything. Be prepared to share the details of how you want to use the system. Make sure the contract includes the features you want.

Inspect on delivery and before you finish paying. Make sure everything that is important to you is actually in place and working.

Take an electric appliance with you when you go to inspect. Disconnect from shore power and plug it in in various places. Heat a cup of water in the microwave, etc.

Correcting deficiencies before you pay is usually quick and easy. Warranty is usually slow and painful.

1000 watt inverter is good for computer bricks and things like CPAP. It requires a 200 amp hour battery bank minimum. Not good for powering the whole house.

2000 watt - sometimes microwave, sometimes not. It requires a 400 amp hour battery bank. Not good for powering the whole house.

3000 watt - runs microwave and many other appliances. 600 amp hours is minimum, but the more you want to run, the bigger the battery bank must be.

Note: Plugged into 30 amp shore power is 3600 watts. Plugged into 50 amp 240 shore power is 12000 watts.

Running air conditioning from batteries for more than a few minuets requires a large battery bank and possibly a huge solar array. Most people use the generator to run A/C.


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