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-   -   Toe-in/Toe-out (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f44/toe-in-toe-out-5915.html)

Biker Buzz 04-15-2005 05:58 PM

HELP! I've got some serious tire wearing problems. I'll run down the history for you guys and maybe someone can steer me in the right direction.

About a year ago I bought a new 29' Sprinter 5th wheel. After the first 1500 miles of towing I wore the inside of the rear tires down to the cords! When I hitched it up, it sat about 4 inches higher in the front than the rear. The reason? My 2004 Dodge 4x4 sits's quite high. When you stood behind the 5er when hitched, you could see that the rear tires were leaning/tilted out at the bottom. I consulted the dealer where I bought the 5er and they said this was the reason for the uneven tire wear...there was too much load on the rear axle because of the angle it was being towed. It made sense to me. They said the solution was to lift the rv so it would ride level...they did not offer this service.

So, I took my 5er to Camping World and they agreed to lift it by welding a 2x4 box tubing to the frame. My springs were already mounted on top of the axle from the factory so "flipping them was not a solution. After the lift job the rv did sit nice and level. As measured from the frame to the ground, the distance front and rear are identical. Problem solved...or so I thought! After replacing the wore out two rear tires and getting the rv lifted, I'm still wearing out the rear tires at an alarming rate. It's not happening as quickly as before the lift...but it is still happening. I just returned from a 2700 mile trip on brand new tires and I can see that the inside tread on the rears is starting to wear. I'd say in another 3-4000 miles they'll be down to the cords. Whew! Sorry the explanation had to be so drawn out.

Anyway, what options do I have here? At this rate I can't afford to use the 5er and replace tires every 3-4000 miles. That's rediculous. Is the dealer liable? Will they try to blame Camping World? I had the problem before and after the lift. Can the toe-in/toe-out be adjusted somehow? Is it possibly to align tires on a straight axle?

I really need a solution. Has anyone had a similar problem? I see rv's going down the road nose-high all the time. Surely everone can't be going through tires at the rate I am???

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Biker Buzz 04-15-2005 05:58 PM

HELP! I've got some serious tire wearing problems. I'll run down the history for you guys and maybe someone can steer me in the right direction.

About a year ago I bought a new 29' Sprinter 5th wheel. After the first 1500 miles of towing I wore the inside of the rear tires down to the cords! When I hitched it up, it sat about 4 inches higher in the front than the rear. The reason? My 2004 Dodge 4x4 sits's quite high. When you stood behind the 5er when hitched, you could see that the rear tires were leaning/tilted out at the bottom. I consulted the dealer where I bought the 5er and they said this was the reason for the uneven tire wear...there was too much load on the rear axle because of the angle it was being towed. It made sense to me. They said the solution was to lift the rv so it would ride level...they did not offer this service.

So, I took my 5er to Camping World and they agreed to lift it by welding a 2x4 box tubing to the frame. My springs were already mounted on top of the axle from the factory so "flipping them was not a solution. After the lift job the rv did sit nice and level. As measured from the frame to the ground, the distance front and rear are identical. Problem solved...or so I thought! After replacing the wore out two rear tires and getting the rv lifted, I'm still wearing out the rear tires at an alarming rate. It's not happening as quickly as before the lift...but it is still happening. I just returned from a 2700 mile trip on brand new tires and I can see that the inside tread on the rears is starting to wear. I'd say in another 3-4000 miles they'll be down to the cords. Whew! Sorry the explanation had to be so drawn out.

Anyway, what options do I have here? At this rate I can't afford to use the 5er and replace tires every 3-4000 miles. That's rediculous. Is the dealer liable? Will they try to blame Camping World? I had the problem before and after the lift. Can the toe-in/toe-out be adjusted somehow? Is it possibly to align tires on a straight axle?

I really need a solution. Has anyone had a similar problem? I see rv's going down the road nose-high all the time. Surely everone can't be going through tires at the rate I am???

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

TXiceman 04-15-2005 06:58 PM

You probably need to get to some portable scales and get a weight at each tire. I bet you find you are still overloaded on the rear axle or it could have the camber (not toe) bent out of it from running over loaded. The tires are set so the camber is with the bottoms of the tires in when un loaded and when you load the axles, the become close to straight. If your overload the axle, the tires will tilt in at the top.

Ken

04-15-2005 07:55 PM

......Biker Buzz.....you have a problem for a truck alignment shop....don't fool with others go to a big truck service shop and have them-have at it......geofkaye

Oly1 04-24-2005 08:06 AM

Seems REAL STRANGE that a Dodge DRW axle and 4 load range E tires can't handle the pin weight of a 29' 5er. Maybe you need to trade it in for a FORD https://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...s/icon_eek.gif? You need to get that 'pin weight' measured and get the trailer weight balanced out(carry beer in the rear of the 5er https://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...on_biggrin.gif). If it really is the axle that is bending maybe have a axle truss bolted/welded up to it? Oly1

TXiceman 04-24-2005 08:49 AM

Oly1, the problem is with the trailer, not the truck. We have not heard back so we don't know what the outcome is.

Ken

wallypedal 05-06-2005 01:04 AM

KAYERIVERCITY
Did answer two of the original questions:
"Can the toe-in/toe-out be adjusted somehow? Is it possibly to align tires on a straight axle?"

Well, he said take it to an alignment shop, anyway. The answer yes to both questions, and not only that it's highly likely they do need adjusted. I think how much adjustment might surprise you.

Every trailer I've owned, boat trailers included, have needed alignment. Every time I have had alignment done, tire wear rates and patterns improved immediately.

If you do take it to a shop, have it loaded like you would going down the road, so if there is a bunch of flex going on due to load, and you've got it loaded the way you want, the alignment can compensate for that too. M2cW Wally

WWFan 05-06-2005 04:54 AM

BB:

I've had the same problem...guy I bought my 95 WW from had a racing company and evidently overloaded the TH- the axles were "broke", meaning that they did not have any curvature to them any longer. That will make the camber set toe out and wear out tires at a fanominal rate. I wound up buying 3 new 4400# axles (that came with 12x2 brakes instead of the 10" on the original 3500#ers) direct from Hayes (@ $1000 which I didn't think was too bad) and haven't had a problem since.

I can't see where any shop can adjust the chamber unless they remove the axles and re-bend them- something that would probably cost just the same as buying new ones....my 2 cents!

Ray,IN 05-26-2005 06:52 PM

By chance do you know if the cam action type jack was used on that axle? These place all the load on that one axle while changing the tire on the axle lifted off the ground, and instantly overloads the load bearing axle.

charliez 05-27-2005 02:54 AM

I think you need to drop the camber adjustment idea. It's a fixed axle and there is no adjustment, other than bending it and it would be a shot in the dark as to if it can ever be bent back tot he right place. I think your question was answerd early on, and that would be overloading, but you may also need to look at your bearings. They very well may be loose or worn, causing the the tire to lean and or track wrong.

If your axles are bent by any slim chance, i wouldn't try to wast money for a shop to take a stab at bending them back. One, like I said above, it will be hit or miss, and two, they will more than likely bend again.

I'd start with load, tire inflation, then bearings.

05-27-2005 09:13 PM

.....over the road truck axels are rebent/shimmed/rebushed every day.....some have been rebent more times than I can count-along with trailer axels and also the axel stubs.....these are done at TRUCK ALIGNMENT SHOPS not car drive no ramps at a service station or tire store....go to the people who do it every day in a TRUCK SHOP and don't waste your time and money with the alignment shops for cars and baby trucks....rebending an axel costs $150.00 here in Cincinnati.....they do it with a 2 dial indicators and 2 hydraulic jacks.......axel stubs are rewelded on everyday and rebent to specs using a huge jack [50 ton]and a beam set in Concrete to hold down the axel.....it is an everyday thing is a TRUCK ALIGNMENT SHOP.....a hundred and twenty thousand pound-heavy hauler might have the axels rebent twice a year-that's a minimum of 11 axels on the prime mover and trailer.....geofkaye

TXiceman 05-28-2005 04:56 AM

Kayerivercity, while they rebend axles on trucks on a normal basis, I would not recommend bending a TT axle as a normal course for repair. These axles are pretty flimsey when compared to a truck axle. Once the steel is bent past the yield ponint it may stretch the metal and weaken the axle.

Ken

wallypedal 05-29-2005 05:03 PM

TXIceman, I agree with KAYERIVERCITY on this one. You're still just speculating on whether the axles are bent and how much, and also how "flimsy" they are. My boat trailer axles are not as strong by comparison as my TT, but they were still aligned by a otr truck shop, just the way geofkaye says. These guys will tell you what's wrong, which no one on this thread even knows for sure yet.
"Once the steel is bent past the yield ponint it may stretch the metal and weaken the axle." They just wouldn't do that if they are experienced. They can tell if the axle has lost it's temper, and they might even know what a yield ponint is if they're really good.... https://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...icon_smile.gif

Since ol' BikerBuzz posted on April 15 and we haven't heard from him since, I guess we can thank him for some interesting discussion. I'm gonna take my 29' 5ver in to a truck alignment shop here now just to see what they about it's alignment or lack of it..I'll report back.

skipper 05-29-2005 07:26 PM

could be the shop that did the lift turned that axle over with the bend down. There is no tow in or out its a trailer the trailer tracks straight forward or back and scrubs to turn that is why at low speed like backing the side wall takes a beating. And thats why trailer tires are stiff on the side walls keep them on the rim. Skipper entry level over fifty years.

charliez 05-31-2005 08:34 AM

My grandfather ran 18 wheeler logging trucks for 50 years and nothing takes a beating like these, and never once did he ever take one for an alignment like what was said. I ran the maintence shop in a very large cabinet shop for 10 years, and never once did we send one of our 18 wheelers for this kind of alignment and we had some driver run them off in the worst of places on construction sites.

A bearing check will cost $0.00. I'd be willing to bet you had loose or bad bearings, OR your over weight and don't realize it.

Is your nose of the rig way high or way low? You need to be pulling level.


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