Grand Design Disappointment

[jeck]

I've really been looking at Grand Design because of the third party inspection after the unit has been built at the factory.

I've come from two Dutchman travel trailers that I purchased new and both had catastrophic water leaking, which led to my attorney getting involved and the units being taken back to the factory because my dealership couldn't repair them. There is a long thread that I posted on them last year in this forum.

Dutchman/Thor is by far the worst company in the industry with building such terrible products and not standing behind them. So I have a bad taste about the RV industry already.

So that's what is drawing me to Grand a design.....

I attended an rv show yesterday and was disappointed in the build quality in the three Grand design models I am considering. I saw multiple issues with door hinges being pulled out of the wall, window shade framing anchors pulled out of the walls, open gaps in roof caulking where water is clearly and actively getting in, (and in Florida it's been raining for the past 5 days this past week) and rust all over the piping for the gas lines of this brand new unit.

I have two friends of mine who both purchased 2017 376m's and both have had issues. One of them had a major slide issue, issues with the brakes, and light switches burning out and the blue accent lights turn on by themselves.

Regardless, this is not something I expected to see at the rv show and hear from my friends, from a company that touts their after the fact inspections before units hit dealership floors.

The RV industry has amazed me at the type of terrible products they produce. Equally amazed at how they treat the customer when THEIR product is defective.

The only thing keeping Grand Design as the product I'm looking to buy is the type of warranty they offer with multiple years for different aspects of the unit.

So, I'm just stating the things I saw as an active and serious Grand Design potential owner.

Every manufacturer is the same with the sub par products they produce.

As a potential customer of the industry again, I'm still waiting for a manufacturer to EXCEED my expectation for the money we pay for these units. I haven't found that yet.

[Hawk43]

Why not go for an Airstream? I owned one a few years back. They are heavier than they look. Lots of quality. Just be sure the tow vehicle has the proper differential gearing. Mine was 3:52. It should have been 3:92. I replaced it with a DP that gets better gas mileage pulling a Jeep JK than the truck did pulling the trailer.

Hawk 43

[Top_Speed1]

We looked seriously at the GD Momentum 376. I think the builds we saw were quite normal for the industry, nothing what I'd say was out of bounds. Problem with these big TH'ers is that they have to "trim" as much as they can to save on overall GVW. I think thickness of walls/doors etc suffer for this, but it is also a cost savings factor for them, so Mfgr's get to have a great excuse (or out) by installing the lighter and cheaper interiors.

Wish you luck, it's definitely a hair pulling experience to get the right RV for yourself, all comes down to what you can settle for, compromise wise.

[918jeeper]

Yep I think all manufacturers are crap! That's why my wife and I joke about our Forest River Cardinal. "It sure is a pretty piece of S***! Hence the name we gave our 5th wheel , Pretty Turd!��

[jtbuilds]

Go with Arctic Fox Silver Fox. Not perfect but about the best you can do for a product that continues to be driven by the consumer that looks for the best deal vs. the best quality.
Quality cannot be built on a production line when bonuses are paid for the number of pieces produced per day.

Home - Northwood RV Owners Association Forum

AF is:
-high on structure and low on bling.

-10" or 12" I beam cross members not bent sheet metal or bent (Lippert) round bar.

-no Shwinteck or cable slide mechanisms.

-Astrofoil (reflective foil) only in the roof....only place it "may" do any good
Stay Away from Foil-Faced Bubble Wrap | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com

- deeper roof trusses

-basement is made to be accessed - this is important as people working the production line know the customer can check what was done.

-2" foam in walls

Barring that there is $$$....Spacecraft and New Horizons.

Then there is used. I read more people going this route that refuse to buy new junk.....look at NuWa, Carriage, Nemar, Teton, Excel.

We looked at new a AF but then decided with my skill that we could spend part of the $50,000 we'd save bulletproofing something used.

[AtomicRT]

Originally Posted by jtbuilds

Then there is used. I read more people going this route that refuse to buy new junk.....look at NuWa, Carriage, Nemar, Teton, Excel.

We looked at new a AF but then decided with my skill that we could spend part of the $50,000 we'd save bulletproofing something used.

We were prospective Grand Design buyers during the early part of our search. Yes, the supposed independent inspection and warranty were primary factors. Luckily, we had several months to research the forums and look at many different 5ers. We pretty quickly decided that used was the ONLY way to go. There are so many barely-used like-new trailers out there for a fraction of the new price. JT's list is exactly what we narrowed it down to (+ DRV/Mobile Suites) and includes trailers with stout tube frames and build quality that is no longer available except with the custom units.

[JayC]

I must agree that there are problems in every brand out there. We have had very good luck with our Landmark and I feel that we got more bang for our buck with this brand. Ours is a 2011 but the new models have a 2 year warranty that covers full time use. You don't say whether you are a weekender or full timer.

Also keep in mind that no manufacturer offers warranty coverage to the second owner. RV's are complex vehicles with rolling chassis, plumbing, appliances and electronics so by buying used you may be buying something that has been neglected or abused that is now your problem. Good luck.

[Dave-R]

We are on our second Arctic fox and yes we like them. They have a good solid feel and we believe they have one of the best bangs for the buck. But maybe we all have come to expect everything to be perfect. To make a house fly down the road at 70 miles an hour without shaking to pieces is quite a feat. There are hundreds of parts and coupled with all the electrical connections it is a miracle they do as good as they do. I have owned a lot of trailers over the years, and I had to do minor and major repairs on every one. I have never taken anything back to get it fixed, I fixed it. My new Arctic Fox had a kitchen faucet that was plugged. The wife called the dealer and they sent a new one and I installed it. Do I figure that I paid 43,000$ for lousy construction (No). Part of the fun for me camping is all the modifications and add ons we do. As the old adage goes, if all you look for is the bad, that's what you find. I think there are quality builders out there that try to put out a quality product. Before you buy the horse take a good look at the teeth. Dave-R

[Reng8d]

Originally Posted by 918jeeper

Yep I think all manufacturers are crap! That's why my wife and I joke about our Forest River Cardinal. "It sure is a pretty piece of S***! Hence the name we gave our 5th wheel , Pretty Turd!��

We have one of those Forrest River POSs too...

[jimcumminsw]

We have a CEDAR CREEK a Forest River product and only had a couple of small issue which were fixed at the Frog Rally! These were fixed by the manufacture in less than 2 hours. This is our third 5ER and it by far is the best unit we have ever own. The manufacturer's repenstitives who you can contact go out of their way to resolve any quality issues you may have.

Would I buy another CEDAR CREEK from Forest River again, YES!

[45Auto]

Originally Posted by jtbuilds

Go with Arctic Fox Silver Fox. Not perfect but about the best you can do for a product that continues to be driven by the consumer that looks for the best deal vs. the best quality.
Quality cannot be built on a production line when bonuses are paid for the number of pieces produced per day.

Home - Northwood RV Owners Association Forum

AF is:
-high on structure and low on bling.

-10" or 12" I beam cross members not bent sheet metal or bent (Lippert) round bar.

-no Shwinteck or cable slide mechanisms.

-Astrofoil (reflective foil) only in the roof....only place it "may" do any good
Stay Away from Foil-Faced Bubble Wrap | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com

- deeper roof trusses

-basement is made to be accessed - this is important as people working the production line know the customer can check what was done.

-2" foam in walls

Barring that there is $$$....Spacecraft and New Horizons.

Then there is used. I read more people going this route that refuse to buy new junk.....look at NuWa, Carriage, Nemar, Teton, Excel.

We looked at new a AF but then decided with my skill that we could spend part of the $50,000 we'd save bulletproofing something used.

Originally Posted by Dave-R

We are on our second Arctic fox and yes we like them. They have a good solid feel and we believe they have one of the best bangs for the buck. But maybe we all have come to expect everything to be perfect. To make a house fly down the road at 70 miles an hour without shaking to pieces is quite a feat. There are hundreds of parts and coupled with all the electrical connections it is a miracle they do as good as they do. I have owned a lot of trailers over the years, and I had to do minor and major repairs on every one. I have never taken anything back to get it fixed, I fixed it. My new Arctic Fox had a kitchen faucet that was plugged. The wife called the dealer and they sent a new one and I installed it. Do I figure that I paid 43,000$ for lousy construction (No). Part of the fun for me camping is all the modifications and add ons we do. As the old adage goes, if all you look for is the bad, that's what you find. I think there are quality builders out there that try to put out a quality product. Before you buy the horse take a good look at the teeth. Dave-R

This is why we went with a Fox Mountain/Northwood product, the new 255RKS. I must admit, they are pretty stout because of how they are built.
The industry as a hole, IMO, is nothing but a scam and unregulated! I just posted in another thread as to why I pulled the plug on a new Ram Mega Cab to enable us to pull what we really wanted. the bottom line is, you can polish a turd, but all you get is a shiny turd! The Northwood seems to have the least issues. If this also turns out to be a turd, im done with RV's! Maybe they have less issues, because they don't use the industry wide Lippert chassis!! they crack, break etc. As for Grand Design, we also considered those, then we started getting informed and looking, only to find inadequate tires for load carrying, axels already sagging because of them being under rated for that application, let alone misaligned from the factory and on the lot for the world to see. Then, grab a knee and tell me what you see with the underbelly on that Grand Design! The plastic enclosure looked like a 6 year old installed it. One I looked at was ripped/torn and all they did was tape it back together. No to mention wrinkled and twisted with expandable foam to fill the gaps! That's when we looked at Artic Fox, wow, no formaldehyde smell when you walk in, no particle board, cleaner build etc, but to heavy for my 3/4 ton. So we went Fox Mountain.

[jtbuilds]

I don't want to cause upset but my $.002 is the 2nd reason for poor construction after price shopping is the consumer that buys the biggest LITE trailer rather than buying the proper size TV needed to tow a quality (HEAVY) built trailer.

Fox Mountain has 10" I beam frame
GD only uses 12" I beam on trailers 40'+
Silver Fox are 12" I beam frames and I beam cross members

[M2D]

My DH and I followed the advice seen here and purchased a used NuWa almost three years ago. We also bought the correct truck to pull it after getting advice here as well.

It took me as the main researcher a while to get past the allure of the lighter weight trailers. A wise person here told us that if you want to travel the great USA through the mountains and anywhere you want to go you need good strong axles, a strong frame and the right tires.

We have been very happy with our 2010 NuWa. Unfortunately they went out of business with the last recession. They still exist though in the form of Kansas RV. They are in the same location and repair and sell used trailers of several brands.

We bought our fifth wheel from a nice couple with many years experience in camping having had several trailers. They felt at the time that they needed to switch to having a class C because of the rules at at place they bought in FL. Turns out they did not like the class C after all and bought a new other brand of trailer. That trailer did not work out for them. They ended up buying a used NuWa similar to one they used to own. I feel badly for them as they are great people but very happy for us as the owners of their former trailer. We have had only two minor repairs made. The NuWa owners list were very helpful in explaining what we needed for the one repair while we were on the road. I love my trailer. It is my second home. We are so comfortable in it. We are just a couple with no children or guests so our 35 foot fiver is just right for us. I prefer the lighter colors it has inside to all the dark stuff I see at RV shows these days.

We did get the one ton diesel dually for it. DH was not crazy about the idea of the dually but has come to value the stability it seems to provide as well as the pulling power of the diesel and the engine braking the diesel provides going down hill. We bought the truck new through a friend at Ford who got us the X package for pricing. Otherwise the used diesel trucks around our way were almost as expensive as a new truck for what you got.

We are so grateful for the solid advice we have received here in the last three years. Many thanks to all on the forum for routing advice for various trips and the wonderful advice there for the picking when you do searches here. Best of luck to you in your search.

[Cumminsfan]

JMO but Grand Designs are just like the trailers built where the 3 COE's came from. Keystone. All they did was create a new warranty idea. They knew they couldn't build the better RV, so instead of revolutionizing the RV industry with a better way to build RV's they came up with the idea that since we can't build it better we'll treat you better after you buy it.
Problem is when the warranty's up you still have the same RV as everyone else.
Interesting discussion over on the Northwood owners for about quality diminishing. Most are finding out that NW is going thru the same problem as the rest of the industry. How to keep prices down and how to meet demand with a weak labor force.

NW still builds a stronger trailer than any in it's price range, except Outdoor RV. Both build similar units with one offering items the other doesn't.
What I find from reading several brand forums is that NW and ORV don't seem to have as many of the big problems as the rest. They both produce units that on occasion are sloppily put together. But the overall foundation is better.